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February 12, 2014, 11:58 AM | #51 |
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There are already ALOT of great proven alternatives out there. I want to handle one before I pass any judgment. I don't particularly care for its looks but who knows??? I don't think a gun like the Shield has anything to worry about but its nice to see Remington getting more involved in the market. That alone tells me Remington is thinking they want to be a player.
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February 12, 2014, 12:19 PM | #52 | |
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At the very least, a safety button would address buck460XVR's musing about a button somewhere to set it to "stun". |
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February 12, 2014, 12:42 PM | #53 | |
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This isn't an attempt at a "one size fits all" concealed carry gun for the masses. If that was Remington's intent, I imagine it would be a polymer, striker-fired Glockish type of thing. It's not. It's a more complex design, and it's not really geared towards the guy with minimal (if any) training who wants an ultra-small, ultra-light pocket gun. Remington's taking a risk with doing something (well...) different, and I'm all for it. They realize that a light, hard-to-shoot plastic thing isn't what everybody wants.
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February 12, 2014, 12:59 PM | #54 |
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I'm still going to buy one, not because I need another firearm but just because I want another firearm.
At this point in my life wants way outstrip needs.
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February 12, 2014, 01:13 PM | #55 | |
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BTW. U. G. L. Y. It ain't got no alibi....it ugly...it ugly. |
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February 12, 2014, 02:58 PM | #56 | |
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To me it's good looking gun, kind of like a modernized Makarov or somewhat like a PPK or Bersa.
The appeal of a gun is a good reason to buy or not to buy, but shouldn't be the only reason. Glocks ain't too pretty to me, but I own one and I like it!
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February 12, 2014, 03:29 PM | #57 |
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Sour grapes or not from the writer have no bearing on design features I don't find appealing. I used **** to describe it before and I still feel the same way.
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February 12, 2014, 04:45 PM | #58 | |
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February 12, 2014, 09:28 PM | #59 | |
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A specific user might not be as safe with a gun without a manual safety, but that's neither the gun, nor the designer's fault.
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February 12, 2014, 09:37 PM | #60 |
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Perhaps not necessarily... but with such short and light trigger travel, It seems awfully foolish to not have a safety on such a weapon.
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February 12, 2014, 11:45 PM | #61 |
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To me, the grip safety is enough to not make me worry about it. I don't particularly like manual safeties, but I also don't really see why the lack of one when there is a grip safety really matters. If you are drawing your gun, you are probably flipping the safety off as you pull it up anyway, the grip safety just kind of does that for you. I definitely think that it is more "safe" than a Glock, and I own two of those.
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February 12, 2014, 11:59 PM | #62 |
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It does seem foolish, particularly because the original model 51 has a safety lever.
One wonders if the decision not to have a safety lever was to cater to those people who "won't carry a gun with a safety". Although I do wonder, why? I'd like to see it with a safety lever, but that's a want, not a need.
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February 13, 2014, 01:32 AM | #63 | |
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February 13, 2014, 02:19 AM | #64 |
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Poor placement, difficult to use, awkward, etc., it is still a functional safety, should I choose to use it.
I think that is the crux of the matter for some of us. The lever, knob, button, slider, whatever may be in a bad spot, it may work the "wrong" way, it may take both hands to work it, it may be a lot of less than the best things, but if it is there, we feel better about the gun.
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February 13, 2014, 02:37 AM | #65 | |
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February 13, 2014, 04:28 AM | #66 |
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I have to say the gun appeals to me because it doesn't have a manual safety, other than the grip safety. I hate pistols with frame mounted safeties. I won't buy them. I am left handed and most companies do not make them for the left handed user. I don't want them on my gun at all. Way too risky to activate and can't get to it, if the need arises. Some here feel the need for the safety and feel opposite of my feelings, but for me I prefer a clean gun without the safety. If you want a gun with a safety buy the S&W shield or bodyguard, I won't because of the safety. Another thing I love is how the grip safety is also a slide release. That's perfect for a lefty because most guns are right handed only. I work the slide on all my guns, but I like this concept. If your looking for a gun with a frame mounted safety there are plenty of good pistols out there, this is not the gun for you. Glad to see that Remington omitted this device for us non safety lovers. I guess that's why they make different flavors of ice cream. I prefer plane ole vanilla.
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February 13, 2014, 09:29 AM | #67 |
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It's just a different school of thought; some think a safety should merely stop the gun, some think it should also stop the shooter (unless they consciously defeat it)
At least it takes more than a shirt tail in a bad holster to set off this passive safety TCB
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February 13, 2014, 09:39 AM | #68 |
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I almost replied without reading the review. But I was a good boy... :-)
I have to say that one guy hating on a gun doesn't sway my opinion much. He did point out a couple of things to look out for (and I will) but the tone of his article didn't do much for me. If something is really crap you can show that objectively (without hyperbole or hyperventilating). When he said it's roughly the size of a Glock 19 he lost me entirely. I had already spent a bunch of time comparing the dimensions of the R51 to several other carry guns I have. Small dimensional differences make a _big_ difference on a carry gun. He glossed right over that fact in his rush to crapify the gun. Meh... I'll form my own opinion, thanks. My first reaction to the R51 was "I want one". Over the course of a month I'm now at "I really, really want to try one because I'm pretty dang sure I want one". If it feels good in the hand I'll plunk down money for one. If not, it'll join the Sig P239 in the "dang, that could have been a perfect carry gun" category. (The squared front grip of the P239 made shooting it uncomfortable)
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February 13, 2014, 09:49 AM | #69 |
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I would say that there is more to a guns reputation than a single review, however when an internet gun blog review(usually very positive due to being paid advertisements) gives it less than a standing ovation a person must wonder. looks like they took the horrible trigger of the M&P, heavy recoil of the XDS, and poor accuracy of Kahr feather weights. 2 inches at 5 yards is nothing to brag about, although for featherweights it is a lot harder to shoot accurately.
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February 13, 2014, 10:01 AM | #70 | |
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February 13, 2014, 11:35 AM | #71 | |
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He said the take-up and trigger pull were "exquisite" (that means "good", I think), but he couldn't get "tactile feedback" on the trigger reset. HE goes on to say how, even after hundreds of rounds fired and a lot of dry fire practice, HE was still pulling the trigger before it reset. AND, he blames that for his less than stellar accuracy. 2 inches at 5 yds? "snort!" To me, that's like saying "I couldn't drive it well due to the fact that I had to push the clutch all the way to the floor in order to shift gears..." The poor baby..... That isn't a gun problem, its a shooter issue. From his own words, this is a guy who either cannot, or will not bother to learn how to best use the pistol. He has a certain style of shooting, and if HE cannot shoot the gun well, the way he wants to shoot it, the gun is at fault. I have a descriptive word for that, but the language filters prevent me from using it... As to the recoil, again, a purely subjective opinion. Sure, smaller guns in serious defensive calibers are less pleasant to shoot than bigger ones, and he is correct about the "bite" from the edges of the grip safety opening being something that the maker ought to do something about. But I think there are plenty of people who would barely notice or not notice a problem at all. Only getting numbers of them into shooters hands will show if its an issue for all of us, or just him (and his shooting buddy).
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February 13, 2014, 11:38 AM | #72 | |
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Heck, I had to shoot one of the Sccy pistols the other day. It did better than that, which was my way of showing the owner it wasn't the gun. Perhaps our reviewer needs a similar lesson, especially since his experience contradicts that of the folks at Gunsite.
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February 13, 2014, 01:30 PM | #73 | |
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glocks, rugers, springfields, CZ, Berettas, 1911s, BHPs all have this click... M&Ps and apparently the R51 do not and that is why many shooters can not shoot accurately.
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February 13, 2014, 01:52 PM | #74 | |
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February 13, 2014, 01:59 PM | #75 |
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and to that individuals tactical training. every course I've been at has taught to use a perceptible reset. without that everyone in such a course is pretty much out of luck.
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