what price linotype?

max it · April 30, 2010, 11:33 AM

Guys,

I want to trade some linotype here in my area. But before I do it I wonder if I am offering good value to both others and myself; so comments welcome. Skip the offers to buy please I am doing this face to face at the range only.

I have raw linotype and want three pounds of wheel weights for one pound. Linotype is too hard to shoot at steel. Would you think this is a good deal?

Any caveats?

Much obliged,

Max

snuffy · April 30, 2010, 11:44 AM

Max, that's a good deal. Lino is rich in tin and antimony, 1 # will sweeten 3-4 pounds of WW to be a good hard bullet.

I've been paying a buck fifty for lino, I feel I'm getting a good deal.

David Wile · May 1, 2010, 06:15 PM

Hey folks,

Linotype is rarely used in the newspaper business these days and has not been in much use for probably 30 years or more. That means true linotype sources have been depleted all these years, and it opens the gate for the shady folks to offer phony linotype for sale. When I see small 1 pound or 4 pound ingots for sale on E-Bay, I have to wonder whether the product is truly linotype of just plain wheel weights. When newspapers used to melt their used linotype letters for reuse, they would usually be melted in a large container and poured into really large ingot moulds. A linotype ingot might weigh anywhere from 25 to 50 pounds, and when I see smaller 1 to 5 pound ingots being advertised as linotype, it raises a red flag for me.

In any case, if I lived near Max, I would be happy to trade three pounds of wheel weights for a pound of linotype. If wheel weights continue to disappear, however, the value of wheel weights compared to linotype would improve somewhat.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

max it · May 1, 2010, 06:35 PM

Guys,

So far so good; I will post my linotype at the next competition. Giving the closest friends a chance for it.

Much obliged,

Max

snuffy · May 2, 2010, 01:11 AM

David Wile, the problem is most of the "so called" lino being sold now is a mixture of the letters and the spacers being melted together. The spacers were always nearly pure lead, because they didn't have to stand the battering of the print press. The more spacers present in the melt, the softer the lino.

The stuff I've been getting is most certainly a mix, it seldom goes above 18 BHN. Good virgin linotype should be 23-24 BHN. It makes nice magnum pistol bullets just the way it is.

Brad from Missouri bullets offered to sell some linotype he had bought for alloying some special bullets he was making. I got 2 boxes of it, turns out it was still in letter form, WITH spacers mixed in. Just melting the letter bars, gave me nearly virgin lino, great stuff for rifle bullets!

dahermit · May 2, 2010, 08:43 AM

The "spacers" were called "rules" by the printers. Also, Linotype was not the only alloy used in the printing industry. There was two types of "factory type", mono-type, stereo-type, etc., all were different alloys. It is common for people to use the term "Linotype" for any of those alloys, so it is always going to be a question of just what you are going to get if you buy what is being sold as "Linotype".
Also, confusing the issue, there were two types of Babbit used for bearings that once melted from original form, could easily be confused with type metals because of their hardness and similarity to type metals.

dahermit · May 2, 2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Linotype is rarely used in the newspaper business these days and has not been in much use for probably 30 years or more. That means true linotype sources have been depleted all these years, and it opens the gate for the shady folks to offer phony linotype for sale. When I see small 1 pound or 4 pound ingots for sale on E-Bay, I have to wonder whether the product is truly linotype of just plain wheel weights. When newspapers used to melt their used linotype letters for reuse, they would usually be melted in a large container and poured into really large ingot moulds. A linotype ingot might weigh anywhere from 25 to 50 pounds, and when I see smaller 1 to 5 pound ingots being advertised as linotype, it raises a red flag for me.

I can attest to that fact that the ingots from newspapers were very large. As a Ludington Daily News (Michigan),paperboy in the late 50's, I witnessed the Saturday morning ritual of re-melting the type into ingots. They were cast into pigs that had a slotted hole in one end so that a steel hook could be inserted to drag them on the concrete floor. They were not little pieces.

snuffy · May 2, 2010, 11:55 AM

Here's a pic of a lino ingot of the size used at our local newspaper, way back when. I got the duller gray one at a flee market, I've since used it up, it was good lino, not diluted by "rules". The shiny one that's cut up came off fleabay, I haven't use any of it yet, but I suspect it's a mixture of spacer/rules and type metal.

The stuff I alluded to above, came through a local gunshop, the owner is a personal friend. He was approached by a guy that said he had lino cast into 1 and 2 pound ingots. He gave him a sample that I tested with my lee tester. It came out at 22 BHN, so we both bought 300# @ $1.50/#. The surface of the ingots is a dull gray, so they've been cast for a while. After casting with it, the bullets come out at 18 BHN, the ingots had surface hardened from aging.

darkgael · May 3, 2010, 05:36 AM

Quote:

I tested with my lee tester.

A little off topic but....how do you like that Lee tester? I've been considering buying one. Easy to use?
Pete

snuffy · May 3, 2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

A little off topic but....how do you like that Lee tester? I've been considering buying one. Easy to use?
Pete

I'd have to say it's a PITA! The hard part is seeing the dent through the provided microscope. By that I mean getting enough light on the exact area of the impression left by the indenter. Big pieces of lead, like an ingot, are hard to get tested. The shell holder insert is like a small "V" block to cradle a bullet. To balance a big chunk of lead on it is a exercise in futility.

Other than that it works quite well, as soon as you figure out that a lot of light is better than a little bit of focused light!

grendelbane · May 15, 2010, 10:35 PM

Rotometals will sell virgin linotype alloy for $2.64. Scrounging wheelweights, and casting them into ingots is hard work and requires energy, both human and for the casting pot.

So yes, I would trade good linotype 3 for 1 for wheelweight alloy.

I probably would not trade the other way, though.

Maybe I would if I had a good steady source of wheelweights.

Caveat emptor

View Poll Results: Is 1 lb of linotype worth 3# of wheel weights?
yes	5	71.43%
no	1	14.29%
are you crazy, keep the linotype	1	14.29%
where are you, I want it.	0	0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

April 30, 2010, 11:33 AM	#1
max it Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: SoCal; are we done yet? Posts: 272	what price linotype? Guys, I want to trade some linotype here in my area. But before I do it I wonder if I am offering good value to both others and myself; so comments welcome. Skip the offers to buy please I am doing this face to face at the range only. I have raw linotype and want three pounds of wheel weights for one pound. Linotype is too hard to shoot at steel. Would you think this is a good deal? Any caveats? Much obliged, Max

April 30, 2010, 11:44 AM	#2
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Max, that's a good deal. Lino is rich in tin and antimony, 1 # will sweeten 3-4 pounds of WW to be a good hard bullet. I've been paying a buck fifty for lino, I feel I'm getting a good deal. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

May 1, 2010, 06:35 PM	#4
max it Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: SoCal; are we done yet? Posts: 272	my linotype Guys, So far so good; I will post my linotype at the next competition. Giving the closest friends a chance for it. Much obliged, Max

May 2, 2010, 01:11 AM	#5
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	David Wile, the problem is most of the "so called" lino being sold now is a mixture of the letters and the spacers being melted together. The spacers were always nearly pure lead, because they didn't have to stand the battering of the print press. The more spacers present in the melt, the softer the lino. The stuff I've been getting is most certainly a mix, it seldom goes above 18 BHN. Good virgin linotype should be 23-24 BHN. It makes nice magnum pistol bullets just the way it is. Brad from Missouri bullets offered to sell some linotype he had bought for alloying some special bullets he was making. I got 2 boxes of it, turns out it was still in letter form, WITH spacers mixed in. Just melting the letter bars, gave me nearly virgin lino, great stuff for rifle bullets! __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

May 1, 2010, 06:15 PM	#3
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey folks, Linotype is rarely used in the newspaper business these days and has not been in much use for probably 30 years or more. That means true linotype sources have been depleted all these years, and it opens the gate for the shady folks to offer phony linotype for sale. When I see small 1 pound or 4 pound ingots for sale on E-Bay, I have to wonder whether the product is truly linotype of just plain wheel weights. When newspapers used to melt their used linotype letters for reuse, they would usually be melted in a large container and poured into really large ingot moulds. A linotype ingot might weigh anywhere from 25 to 50 pounds, and when I see smaller 1 to 5 pound ingots being advertised as linotype, it raises a red flag for me. In any case, if I lived near Max, I would be happy to trade three pounds of wheel weights for a pound of linotype. If wheel weights continue to disappear, however, the value of wheel weights compared to linotype would improve somewhat. Best wishes, Dave Wile

May 2, 2010, 08:43 AM	#6
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	The "spacers" were called "rules" by the printers. Also, Linotype was not the only alloy used in the printing industry. There was two types of "factory type", mono-type, stereo-type, etc., all were different alloys. It is common for people to use the term "Linotype" for any of those alloys, so it is always going to be a question of just what you are going to get if you buy what is being sold as "Linotype". Also, confusing the issue, there were two types of Babbit used for bearings that once melted from original form, could easily be confused with type metals because of their hardness and similarity to type metals.

May 2, 2010, 11:55 AM	#8
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Here's a pic of a lino ingot of the size used at our local newspaper, way back when. I got the duller gray one at a flee market, I've since used it up, it was good lino, not diluted by "rules". The shiny one that's cut up came off fleabay, I haven't use any of it yet, but I suspect it's a mixture of spacer/rules and type metal. The stuff I alluded to above, came through a local gunshop, the owner is a personal friend. He was approached by a guy that said he had lino cast into 1 and 2 pound ingots. He gave him a sample that I tested with my lee tester. It came out at 22 BHN, so we both bought 300# @ $1.50/#. The surface of the ingots is a dull gray, so they've been cast for a while. After casting with it, the bullets come out at 18 BHN, the ingots had surface hardened from aging. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

May 15, 2010, 10:35 PM	#11
grendelbane Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Posts: 66	Rotometals will sell virgin linotype alloy for $2.64. Scrounging wheelweights, and casting them into ingots is hard work and requires energy, both human and for the casting pot. So yes, I would trade good linotype 3 for 1 for wheelweight alloy. I probably would not trade the other way, though. Maybe I would if I had a good steady source of wheelweights. Caveat emptor