Why is 10 mm cartridge not popular?

[Cheapshooter]

What kick?

You mean as reported by someone who has never shot one?
Actually more of a 41 Magnum semi-auto!
My Glock 20 is a pleasure to shoot. Felt recoil is probably less than my Springfield armory XD40 Subcompact, or Colt 1911a1 Compact with full power loads. Granted I have not fired anything equal, or exceeding the original Norma load of 170gr bullet@ 1300 fps, or 200gr@ 1200 but I do shoot Winchester Silvertip 175 gr at a reported 1290 fps.
I think the reasons are much more cost, and marketing than too much recoil!

[jmortimer]

"...while most companies make at least 1 10mm offering."
No "most" companies do not make 10mm pistols. Very few do, and for good reason, it is niche caliber that few people want to buy. I think it makes sense, but the market says otherwise.
"Actually more of a 41 Magnum semi-auto!"
No the .41 mag is way more gun. The 10mm has less energy than the .357. Let's keep it real.

[Cheapshooter]

No "most" companies do not make 10mm pistols. Very few do,

FALSE!!!
Midway lists 43 different 10MM loads from over 12 manufacturers including CCI Blazer, Cor-Bon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester. Along with the smaller speciality companies like Buffalo Bore, and Double Tap!
Maybe your local Wally World, or "Joes Sportin' Goods" doesn't sell it, but it is available. Any of the LGS in my area, and both BPS, and Cabela's have several choices of 10MM ammunition available.
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby...&&pageNumber=1

[jmortimer]

I missed it, most ammunition companies do produce 10mm ammunition. Most firearms manufacturers do not make 10 mm pistols.

[TimW77]

"The 10mm has less energy than the .357. Let's keep it real."

jmortimer, you missed this also.

The 10mm will shoot a 135g bullet 220 fps faster from a SHORTER barrel than the .357 will shoot a LIGHTER 125g bullet.

At the other end, the 10mm will shoot a 180g bullet 150fps faster again from a shorter than the .357 will shoot the same same weight bullet.


REAL jmortimer, unless CA public schools taught you a different math and physics than the rest of us, is that a heavier bullet at higher velocity = MORE ENERGY. Even the same weight at higher velocity = MORE ENERGY.

Reality check done...

T.

[Mrgunsngear]

I missed it, most ammunition companies do produce 10mm ammunition. Most firearms manufacturers do not make 10 mm pistols.

Indeed, I was talking about ammo companies. You're correct on the gun company part.

Let's not let this thread turn into a insult-fest guys. It's a good topic; don't let it get shut down.

[jmortimer]

Notwithstanding the unmerited personal insult, I will just refer again to the "facts" from Buffalo Bore:
180 JHP 1311 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
180 grain LFN 1375 fps 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
.357 more energy - 10mm less energy
Some of the 10mm proponents keep mentioning "short barrels" - not sure where this myth started. The 10mm is good and makes sense, but it is at best, close to the .357 in terms of energy, less, not more. You can go over 800 ft lbs with the .357 and you can't with the 10mm.
P.S. Here are some more facts:
155 grain Barnes TAC-XP 1401 fps - Glock Mod 20, 4.6 inch barrel
158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
Facts are fun.

[DASHZNT]

Because the .40 S&W is a sissy round.. its just a 9MM with some more pep... why waste thd money when you can get a real caliber like .45ACP... just personal experience i guess. My goal is to terminate a potential life threat not slow it down... Just Sayin!

DASHZNT

[ChaseReynolds]

I really enjoy shooting my .40 but if I had done more research on the 10mm I probably would have gotten that instead. I still plan on getting a 10mm just going to take more time. As far as recoil it didn't seem as if it was unmanageable or anything.

[PawPaw]

The .460 makes more sense as you are approaching .41 mag power.

Or, you could just carry a .41 magnum, another niche cartridge.

I'm probably one of the only cops in the world who has never pulled the trigger (literally) on a .40SW handgun. I worked in a rural beat for the first 20 years and stayed with the .357 magnum until 2000, when I retired, switched agencies and switched beats. I went directly to the .45 ACP that I was very familiar with. The .357 and the .44 magnum have become my woods guns and I carry a .45 ACP daily.

[Mystro]

Where the 10mm trounces the 357mag is in bullet size and weight. The 10mm can shoot a 220 flat nose cast bullet with over 700ftlbs of energy. That weight and energy makes a huge difference in penetration on large hostile animals. Put that in a G20 with 16 rounds and you can see why it has become the ultimate woods back-up.

[Cheapshooter]

I really enjoy shooting my .40 but if I had done more research on the 10mm I probably would have gotten that instead. I still plan on getting a 10mm just going to take more time.

Depending on your purpose. I think the 40 S&W, despite some people's claim of "Slow and Weak", is a great compromise of more power than a 9MM, with less likelihood of over penetration in a CCW weapon.
My reason for buying the one I have was simple. I didn't have a 10MM, I didn't have a Glock. Presto!!! Glock 20! Two birds as they say. I do think that in addition to being a fun shooter at the range, it can also serve as a hunting sidearm for deer sized game. With the opportunity of hunting deer during the former "muzzle loader" season in Missouri now being called "alternative methods", and allowing modern handguns I just might give it a try!

[Mystro]

The 40 Slow and Weak at 675ftlbs trounces the 45acp and will hold more of those rounds in a smaller gun.

[jmortimer]

"Where the 10mm trounces the 357mag is in bullet size and weight. The 10mm can shoot a 220 flat nose cast bullet with over 700ftlbs of energy. That weight and energy makes a huge difference in penetration on large hostile animals."
Unfortunately, the 10mm does not "trounce" the .357 in anything. Moreover, a 180 grain hard cast .357 will out-penetrate the 220 grain hard cast due to a superior sectional density - 201 for .357 to 195 for 10mm. So once again, the .357 is superior in terms of penetration. Facts are fun.

[Mrgunsngear]

You can go over 800 ft lbs with the .357 and you can't with the 10mm.

Underwood 165gr Gold Dots: (avg)1559fps, 889 ft/lbs energy

Here's the video proof of me getting those results

[BGutzman]

The .460 conversions I have seen were Wilsons; are there any affordable Rowland platforms currently offered?

I guess it depends on what you call affordable but including the price of the pistol and overnighting it to Wild West Guns in Alaska my XD came out at about 1100 or 1200.... Including the custom fitting...

Our long lost friend Ken cut me a discount for being a forum member... Dont know wat happened there but Im sure they are still doing first class work..

The 460 trumps the very respectable 10mm all the way around..

[jmortimer]

Same barrel length with and same weight bullet, the .357 will be more gun.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html
You can make your 10mm have as long a barrel as you like and it will lose, every time, comparing apples to apples. Sorry, I know you took the time to put some crazy barrel on your Glock, and make a neat video, but in the end, no matter how you want to compensate for your short barrel, the 10mm will still envy the energy of the .357. Facts are Fun.

[Mrgunsngear]

I never compared the 357 to the 10mm. Just pointing out that the 10mm is capable of over 800 ft/lbs of energy, that's all.

[jmortimer]

Not over 800 ft lbs in any factory pistol. I like the 10mm, and I like to keep things in perspective. The 10mm makes sense for a woods gun in the lower 48. And I like your Glock.

[The_Shadow]

Many people are afraid to try something other than the 45ACP or the 9mm!
I have been a devote fan of 10mm since 1990!

Yes the ammo is slightly more expensive...
Yes there is some recoil...

But what is not to like about the perfect cartridge in a semiauto handgun to deliver better ballistics on target!

Handloading is also a way to feed your passion if you are serious about having match quality ammo or premium ammo with great ballistics!

[bamaranger]

The energy and velocity arguments will rage on....and that's a fact too! One sees it a all the caliber v. caliber threads, rifle v. rifle too.

What I'm not seeing mentioned alot is what Jmr40 referenced early on, that as a rule, the 10mm autos, and there are not that many, are typically tougher, and more packable than many comparable power revolvers. That arena is where the G20 and the Deltas fit in well. And you will have nearly 3x the capacity in your hand, which one will liklely not need, but simplifies ammo management. One G20 mag, in the pistol, is the near equal of 3 cylinders full of ammo. No need for loops, speed loaders, and more room in your pocket.

The "tougher" comment will draw fire, but I will stand by it.

The big detriment of the 10 is that aside from the small glocks, there are not really any compact platforms. The 10mm's are all big pistols. What the public wants usually is a compact, concealable gun, witness the market running wild in the concealed carry realm, and all the new, pocket auto and even a new poymer pocket revolver. Clipping the 10mm and creating the 40, and fiting the .40 into existing popular sized autos, while providing more power than the 9mm, and more capacity than most .45's, was all it took to slow down the 10's rise to the top.

Remember, what the Bureau was looking for when the 10mm made its surge was a concealable duty pistol that exceed the 9mm which they despised after Miami, and they wanted more capacity than the std 1911/.45, w/o the complications of cocked and locked carry. They found it in the clipped 10, the .40 &W

[Skans]

The .40 S&W is about as much snappiness that most people can handle in a compact pistol. The extra power range offered by 10mm is outshined by the compactness that you can get out of .40 S&W. In fact, it seems that people are gravitating away from .40 back to 9mm because 9mm is adequately powerful and a little easier to be accurate with.

Personally, I like 10mm in full-sized steel guns. It makes a great home-defense round, where concealability doesn't really matter. The report will startle you, however, and is more likely to damage your ears than 9mm. Take it from someone who fired a round of 10mm, forgetting to put on his ear protection!

[Mike_Fontenot]

I've got a 10mm Kimber Eclipse Custom II (full-size, all-steel 1911), and I wouldn't want ANY other auto-loader. 10mm makes much more sense to me than any of the other alternative calibers. And Underwood sells full power 10mm for about 60 cents a round.

[deadcoyote]

I personally am fond of the potential of the 10mm. however, I don't reload and most of the factory ammo is loaded to .40 SW balistics with a much higher price tag. Just my opinion, YMMV.

[Mystro]

Wnchester 175jhp Silvertips are full power 10mm and relatively easy to find.. They are devastating on whitetail deer. I shot a large doe with one and it dumped her as fast as a 30-30 rifle. The silvertip ammunition has become my go to round for full power 10mm.