Powder Magazine (proper storage) question

[GGALLIN1776]

Hey all!

I'm brand new at reloading & have run into a bit of a conundrum in regards to creating a powder magazine.

I understand it should be 1" hardwood, non-static materials, etc.

However.....

Enter a rodent problem which has largely been ameliorated thanks to setting dozens of traps BUT the problem of the neighbor who busted the rear access door/the landlord not fixing it allows mice to continue entering the structure.

Even if the possibility is extremely remote, I have to think as if the wood will get chewed through as well as the powder jug.

Overkill in hazard planning paranoia? Maybe. Rather go safe than sorry though. I used to have pet rats & those things could chew through just about anything that wasn't glass or thick metal while I was asleep or at work. Mice aren't as big but they do the same nonsense

I was hoping to get some input on putting the jug in a military ammo can (i.e M548 large 20mm can) without the front latch closed.

Would this be appropriate or even fit a 8lb h335 jug ? If you have an exact width measurement of a current 8lb h335 jug, I'd highly appreciate it.

I've found two different interior widths listed 7-3/4" & 8-1/4", so to be on the safe side, I'll assume the former. If the jug won't fit, I'm not sure which USGI steel ammo/rocket can will be wide enough to hold it whilst standing upright (again, recommendations welcome!).


My idea is to either line the can with cardboard or thin wood as an additional anti-static guard, then only close the rear latch so in a worst case scenario, it's technically "sealed" but if pressure builds at all, the lid will simply open rearward & strike the wood.

There's also the issue of an average 80-90% indoor humidity (again, landlord problem). I throw a desicant can/pouch in just about everything, which does help anything sealed. Everything else needs constant attention, be it cleaning, oil or whatever the remedy.

This brings me to inside the jug & the powder tself.

Would a pouch of silica gel be appropriate to leave IN the powder to ensure it stays dry as possible after opening/closing?

If not, (aside from moving

[44 AMP]

The best and safest storage isn't cheap. It is an industrial FLAM cabinet. They are sturdy metal, have blow out vents so even if what's inside ignites, it vents and doesn't turn into a bomb. They have ground wires to prevent static issues. (if you don't know how to properly ground something, hire an electrician)

Sturdy latches and most can be locked/padlocked if desired.

Dessicant in the cabinet, yes. Dessicant in the individual powder cans, no.

[rc]

You have competing problems. How about a metal trash can? Some compact ones are available for animal feed. While not exactly the perfect solution, the original containers made of plastic are pretty moisture resistant but not mice proof. While a metal ammo can is mice proof, it will contain pressure. A slip on trash can lid could just pop off in a fire and should be mice proof. Hopefully there is no ignition source close to stored powder like a gas water heater. You would not want to store powder in a cluttered place like a garage full of flammable stuff like oil and gas with an ignition source like a gas water heater but your risk tolerance might be higher than my own. I would not be afraid to store powder in a spare bedroom closet without an ignition source where temperatures are stable but maybe not an 8 pound jug. I'm sure you have a local fire code that dictates your storage limits. You only need an approved container if you exceed that limit by law.

[Shadow9mm]

Might i suggest a popcorn tin, like the ones you get at Christmas. Won't hold pressure, mostly air tight. Will keep most critters out.

Small metal trashcan might also be a good choice.

[Nick_C_S]

In the winter, I store my powder in my garage "pantry." It's an enclave under the stairwell that is inside the house. Anyway, there's enough gap under the door for mice to get in and I have seen droppings.

They have access to my propellant canisters, but have never disturbed them.

I have never seen a rat or any signs thereof.

My gut tells me they (mice or rats) would have no compulsion to chew into a powder container. Just my gut. I'm no expert.

[Ricklin]

Big rats can chew through thick plastic containers. They can chew through aluminum cans and heavy plastic containers.
I recently cleared a rat infested house in which the water had been turned off months before. The rats got thirsty. They will chew through Aluminum to get to water. It was apparent they were drinking from the toilet prior to the H20 being turned off.

[stagpanther]

If you're certain they are getting through the container to the powder--how about putting a primer inside a piece of cheese?


I'm sorry, I couldn't help it.

Seriously, welcome to the forum (just ignore me, most everyone else does)--you might explore storing the powder on shelving that is somehow inaccessible (grating of some sort they can't chew through and can't be climbed up to).

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by rc

You have competing problems. How about a metal trash can? Some compact ones are available for animal feed. While not exactly the perfect solution, the original containers made of plastic are pretty moisture resistant but not mice proof. While a metal ammo can is mice proof, it will contain pressure. A slip on trash can lid could just pop off in a fire and should be mice proof. Hopefully there is no ignition source close to stored powder like a gas water heater. You would not want to store powder in a cluttered place like a garage full of flammable stuff like oil and gas with an ignition source like a gas water heater but your risk tolerance might be higher than my own. I would not be afraid to store powder in a spare bedroom closet without an ignition source where temperatures are stable but maybe not an 8 pound jug. I'm sure you have a local fire code that dictates your storage limits. You only need an approved container if you exceed that limit by law.

The closet I'm using is stable aside from humidity/potential lurking vermin, any flammable items like paint are under the kitchen sink.
I figure if those went, atleast the poor plumbing will eventually give way & flood the source (no petro products there for just that reason, it'll turn into a flaming waterfall in that scenario).

The electric water heater does concern me a bit but that's in a different "safe" closet which only contains the unit, it's far enough away where if it bursts, I believe the breaker will go before any water carrying current has a chance to spread.

The small garbage can is a good idea, cheap & easy .

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Might i suggest a popcorn tin, like the ones you get at Christmas. Won't hold pressure, mostly air tight. Will keep most critters out.

Small metal trashcan might also be a good choice.

Not a bad idea, oddly enough the empty tins are in the crafts aisle at Wal-Mart year-round.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

In the winter, I store my powder in my garage "pantry." It's an enclave under the stairwell that is inside the house. Anyway, there's enough gap under the door for mice to get in and I have seen droppings.

They have access to my propellant canisters, but have never disturbed them.

I have never seen a rat or any signs thereof.

My gut tells me they (mice or rats) would have no compulsion to chew into a powder container. Just my gut. I'm no expert.

I'd imagine that you're correct on the lack of compulsion to do so, it's just that lurking "what if" in the back of my head.
Pretty much just a one less unknown to ponder whilst trying to sleep....I did have atleast two bite my foot when doing so, that was an unwelcomed surprise Thankfully they weren't carrying anything that some peroxide/iodine couldn't take care of.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by Ricklin

Big rats can chew through thick plastic containers. They can chew through aluminum cans and heavy plastic containers.
I recently cleared a rat infested house in which the water had been turned off months before. The rats got thirsty. They will chew through Aluminum to get to water. It was apparent they were drinking from the toilet prior to the H20 being turned off.

Yup, they will get through most things. After what you experienced in clearing that house, you probably won't be surprised to find out that they'll chew through thin gauge soft steel.

The aforementioned pet rats I had years ago were on the giant side (roughly 10" not including the tail, I fed them a bit too well) & atop their aquarium enclosure was a steel framed window screen.

Since they couldn't easily reach the mesh, they chewed up the frame. I'm not 100% sure if it was aluminum or steel as it was pulled from building scrap, but they didn't even break their teeth when chomping on that.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

If you're certain they are getting through the container to the powder--how about putting a primer inside a piece of cheese?


I'm sorry, I couldn't help it.

Seriously, welcome to the forum (just ignore me, most everyone else does)--you might explore storing the powder on shelving that is somehow inaccessible (grating of some sort they can't chew through and can't be climbed up to).

Now that is the ultimate solution!

"Why did I just see a field mouse rupture?"

"Well, I found some fancy mouse traps at the flea market. The slogan that sold me on Cheesesplosives brand was 'We're the ied of pest control.' Too catchy to pass up!"

And thanks������

[Marco Califo]

Use rodent bait blocks inside bait stations. Protecta LP Rat Bait Station are an industry standard and they last forever and are safe around pets. You may recognize them around commercial buildings.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

Use rodent bait blocks inside bait stations. Protecta LP Rat Bait Station are an industry standard and they last forever and are safe around pets. You may recognize them around commercial buildings.

I was looking at those but the price put me off (pinch my pennies harder than a 20 ton press) was kinda worried about smell as well.

Hopefully I can get the health department/building inspector to do some code enforcement & have the landlord put some of the ones you mentioned by the entry doors. It took me over five years to get fire extinguishers installed in common areas.

For now it's just Victor's with finishing nails stuck through the wood. Surprisingly they break so easily that it seemed necessary. One closed on my finger & the trap itself broke.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

The best and safest storage isn't cheap. It is an industrial FLAM cabinet. They are sturdy metal, have blow out vents so even if what's inside ignites, it vents and doesn't turn into a bomb. They have ground wires to prevent static issues. (if you don't know how to properly ground something, hire an electrician)

Sturdy latches and most can be locked/padlocked if desired.

Dessicant in the cabinet, yes. Dessicant in the individual powder cans, no.

Any idea if there's a set of plans/specs or a tutorial on building a cabinet yourself?

Far from the world's best fabricator but I'd be confident in building one with rough guidelines such as metal gauge/type, flap spring rates or valves needed, hinges, etc. As for grounding, I've only done cb masts (6' steel rod into the ground & clamped to aluminum wire) so in that realm I'd need an electrician. The closest ground available of that style isn't exactly close enough & I'm not on the ground floor.

In the meantime I'll keep an eye out for trade school or state "surplus". Years ago we had cabinets in my shop & auto body for things that can possibly go boom & similar flammables, when they were updating the building itself, the cabinets were given away for free.

Didn't think I'd ever need one so I passed on the opportunity. They were rather large too so the apartment factor would have eventually required that I give them away.

[Marco Califo]

One inch thick boards
Page 6
https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx
Download thec2023 Reloaders Guide

[44 AMP]

Another thing to check on, if you live in an apartment or in a more regulated area than out in the weeds is your local limits on how much powder (flammables) you can store at your residence. This amount is usually found in the FIRE CODES.

Not something commonly inspected for, or enforced, but there often is a stated limit in the codes, somewhere. Code violations can lead to fines, or loss of insurance coverage, or possibly a breach of your lease agreement. Be a shame to lose money or even your lease because you had 11 pounds of powder when the fire code only allowed 10.

And, speaking of leases, if it applies to you, do check the "boilerplate" clauses in the fine print. They may mention "dangerous substances" and other vague terms.

[jetinteriorguy]

Spray the area with Tiger pee, although I imagine that’s probably not a smell you want around. You used to be able to buy this to scare away rats, I have no idea if it’s still available.

[Marco Califo]

Really, it sounds like a rodent problem first and foremost. You should treat as such. Tomcat makes many mice size bait stations. They are cheaper than rat traps. I like refillable ones with a window to see when a new bait block is needed.
I came home to a 3 day vacate notice 35 years ago. I clogged the garbage disposal with a bottle cap (remember holding those and snapping your fingers to make them fly). The handyman saw my reloading equipment and supplies and called the police. The police did a good job of calming them down. I had to stop reloading at that address.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Another thing to check on, if you live in an apartment or in a more regulated area than out in the weeds is your local limits on how much powder (flammables) you can store at your residence. This amount is usually found in the FIRE CODES.

Not something commonly inspected for, or enforced, but there often is a stated limit in the codes, somewhere. Code violations can lead to fines, or loss of insurance coverage, or possibly a breach of your lease agreement. Be a shame to lose money or even your lease because you had 11 pounds of powder when the fire code only allowed 10.

And, speaking of leases, if it applies to you, do check the "boilerplate" clauses in the fine print. They may mention "dangerous substances" and other vague terms.

When I moved in there was alot to do about the lease, namely the "prohibition of firearms" & not allowing things like paint/stains or anything flammable. Technically a jug of WD-40 would get me evicted.

Thankfully the court ruling barring landlords from prohibiting tenant firearm possession gave me something clear to stand on in a situation where the second amendment was outright ignored.

Even a local cop who lived here left over that, the owner demanding he leave firearms at work.

I will have to check fire code however, thanks for mentioning it as it really didn't pop in my head. I'll likely have to call the fire marshal himself as the only thing in the city database or concerning any type of safety is applying for a building permit. I was kinda under the assumption that the 50lb rule is universal....however I don't think I'd have the stomach to store that much, being a worrier when it comes to holding that much powder not already in cartridges.

Like most things that need to be respected due to what damage can occur if not handled correctly, I'm sure I'll ease up once I get more accustomed to having it around.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

Spray the area with Tiger pee, although I imagine that’s probably not a smell you want around. You used to be able to buy this to scare away rats, I have no idea if it’s still available.

That's one thing I didn't expect to be sold....I've seen various unrines on the shelf for hunting purposes but that one gave me a good laugh.

"How can I help you sir?"

"I'm looking for a pint of Roar Brand tiger pee, can you direct me to the aisle in which it can be found?"

"Please leave before I call security."

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

Really, it sounds like a rodent problem first and foremost. You should treat as such. Tomcat makes many mice size bait stations. They are cheaper than rat traps. I like refillable ones with a window to see when a new bait block is needed.
I came home to a 3 day vacate notice 35 years ago. I clogged the garbage disposal with a bottle cap (remember holding those and snapping your fingers to make them fly). The handyman saw my reloading equipment and supplies and called the police. The police did a good job of calming them down. I had to stop reloading at that address.

Jeez, was there some sort of code issue in regards to hazmat that prompted the notice or just the jumpy repair guy?

Seems pretty drastic either way. Thankfully the notices to quit don't really have teeth here until it goes to court, that process generally takes about a year & if the cause is still unresolved/the court rules against you then an armed marshal physically removes you with no time to grab your possessions.

If this happens after a certain day in October (due to freezing temps & so forth) then it has to be put off until sometime in either late March or April.

[GGALLIN1776]

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

One inch thick boards
Page 6
https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx
Download thec2023 Reloaders Guide

It's kinda vague insofar as just stating 1" board (same in the SAAMI book), you'd think they'd say something about hinging the lid & the use fasteners or glue.

Where I'm running into trouble is finding actual 1" board, under "item details" for hardwood at home depot, the true thickness is 3/4". It seems odd that they can even market it as such with an entire 1/4" absent.

[Marco Califo]

First, get rid of the mice. Then reevaluate the need for a powder magazine.
I would use 2"x6" boards and stop worrying.

[44 AMP]

Where I'm running into trouble is finding actual 1" board, under "item details" for hardwood at home depot, the true thickness is 3/4". It seems odd that they can even market it as such with an entire 1/4" absent.

The standard convention of board size names is the size before finish planing. In other words its the size of the rough cut board, not the finished one.

Think of it like your hamburger. That 1/4lb pattie is the weight before cooking!

The reason 1" wood boards are specified is that they are strong enough for a cabinet, and wood boards, while they can be fitted air tight, are not pressure tight, no matter what they are attached with. The boards will deform, even break creating gaps for the pressure to vent through, before it reaches dangerously explosive levels. (or at least, that's the plan, doesn't work with black powder, which actually explodes, but wood is still the best for black powder, being non conductive, and flying bits of wood are less dangerous than metal. Note, LESS, not risk free)