In Defense of Pet?

[djohn]

Definitley a K-9 is a officer of the law,Attempt to kill or injur one is the same as trying to resist and hurt a Officer.I was at my brothers house for a BD party my brother was off duty at the time.The next door neighbors son was spaced out on something and got in a domestic with his parents and kicked his father in the chest who just recoverd from a heart attack. when they tried to call the police the kid punched the wall phone and broke it.The sister ran to my brothers asked him to call the police.My brother called then went over tried talking to him and had him calm until the unit showed up.police arrived they kid split running through the backyards that leads to woods they couldn't catch him.one of the officer called for the K-9 when the car showed the officer open the back door and let the dog sent the grass area and said Go find him,the dog was up in woods in a flash.Next we hear screaming from the kid and then the dog cry out.The dirt back ripped the dogs tongue open with his bear hands but the dog remained on him on like flys on you know.When they brought the kid out of the wood besides some nasty bites the kid suffered some lumps and bumps. on the way out +1 for the good guys.

officer K-9 rambo is much different then Muffy the family pet.

[Creature]

PAX, The other situation is in some areas an armed person on your place has already committed a felony and to posture a violent intent has put the human in fear of their life. if the dog is attacked or shot they remove all doubt.

Not if the shooter has re-holstered his weapon after he shot your dog while on your property. Once his weapon is holstered, he is no longer a imminent threat. That would be a "no shoot" situation then.

[Brian Pfleuger]

that dog is as much cop, if not more, then it's handler.

Well, that just plain ridiculous. The "handler" is a sworn, trained human police officer. Just because the law says that hurting that dog is equal to hurting a police officer doesn't mean the dog IS a police officer. It means that they HAVE TO make it a serious crime or there wouldn't be much point in having the dog to begin with.

and i challange you to go hurt a k-9, matter of fact, i double dare you. we'll see who's life they cherish more. btw, ignore all those "he was resisting" bumps and bruises you'll recieve for hurting a fellow officer. your life means way more to those cops then that dogs...

You mean that dog that the routinely send into situations too dangerous for a human? The dog that is used to protect humans? Is that the dog you honestly believe they cherish above human life?

[Creature]

Again...this thread is NOT about K9 dogs. This question orignally posed is whether you can shoot someone over your personal pet dog.

[SilentSoul]

that is a delicate situation, if he survives the shooting (the uninvited guest) and is able to state that, he was in fear for his life because the dog was about to attack.. there could be a problem, on the other hand, he was uninvited, you had a fenced in yard and signs warning him, at that point he is breaking the law AND drew a gun on private property

he should of turned tail and ran for the fence, get away from the dog, in that situation i would shoot to kill, he obviously has bad intentions, breaking the law by coming onto your property, armed with a firearm and willing to use it, i would be very worried that hes killing the dog because its getting in the way of his bad intentions

not to mention, i care more about the life of most animals.. than i do about most humans, that stranger would be SOL, he should of blew the horn, stayed outside the fence and not ignored the signs

[Creature]

No human's life is worth anything even remotely close to that of the mangiest cur.

I disagree. No animal's life is worth more than a human's life. That is a point of law. And I am surprised that as a moderator you are publicly espousing this line of thinking.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Again...this thread is NOT about K9 dogs. This question orignally posed is whether you can shoot someone over your personal pet dog.

I agree. It's just that his statement is ridiculous.


Here's how I see the OP. Ask yourself this

Your child is playing in the yard and someone walks onto my property and murders him. The BG is in the process of leaving. Do I have the right to use deadly force? Shoot the guy in the back? Yes. Without a doubt, in NY state, he has committed murder and is escaping, deadly force is authorized.

Same thing, only it's a dog instead of your child. You shoot the guy in the back. Is THAT legal? Not a chance. You go to jail. Therefore, it is obvious that in the eyes of the law protecting a human or an animal is different.

There is no reason to believe that it would not be equally different in the seconds BEFORE he commits the act.

[hogdogs]

While a dog is legally classed as "property". I feel I am "CHARGED" with their care as much as I am my children. I am legally required to keep them healthy or face animal cruelty charges... same as not trying keep my kids healthy. Extra holes in my dogs is obviously not healthy.
I think I place a high regard for the life of respectful humans... I would never kill what I perceive to be a "good" person. But I have little regard for any human who has made it common personal behavior to prey upon any good person.
If I seen a person cruelly torturing any innocent creature I would be a very mean person. I am likely going to be judged a bad person by the "Big Guy" for this mind set and will pay the price then.

[Creature]

Deadly force to prevent escape? That is whole other can of worms...you should read this from the FBI Bulletin:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...3/ai_15353041/

An excerpt:

Constitutional Authority and Limitations

The constitutional authority to use deadly force to prevent escape from arrest was defined by the U.S. Supreme Court in Tennessee v. Garner(3) in 1985. In reviewing the constitutionality of a State statute permitting the use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, the Court reasoned that if a criminal suspect "poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so."(4)

On the other hand, the Court held that deadly force may be used when "necessary to prevent escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."(5) (emphasis added).

[Creature]

I am legally required to keep them healthy or face animal cruelty charges... same as not trying keep my kids healthy.

Dogs and children are not held to the same standard. Dogs are euthanized on a wholesale basis everyday.

[csmsss]

Creature, are you arguing that someone who has just committed an act of murder and is still armed is NOT an imminent threat to others?

[Creature]

Shooting and killing a dog is not murder.

[ElectricHellfire]

I have two Chihuahuas so anyone attempting to shoot them would just be doing so out of meanness.

I don't do meanness. Especially to me or mine by some stranger on my own property. Thankfully in Texas we don't have to retreat.

Shooting and killing a dog is not murder.

Neither is it murder for someone to slap my wife in face. But you'd end up just as dead.

[csmsss]

Thankfully in Texas we don't have to retreat.

Thankfully, in Texas, you can also defend your little guys, using lethal force if necessary.

[Creature]

Neither is it murder for someone to slap my wife in face. But you'd end up just as dead.

And you would spend the rest of your adult life behind bars for killing the person who slapped your wife.

[Sixer]

Shooting and killing a dog is not murder.

Well whatever you want to call it... I take someone killing my dog while intruding on my property ( see OP and scenario ) as a direct threat to my personal well being. Enough of a threat to warrant the use of deadly force.

[Creature]

Enough of a threat to warrant the use of deadly force.

Not if the dirtbag's weapon is re-holstered its not.

[hogdogs]

Creature, a person doesn't even need a weapon in florida to be shot deader than a door nail for threatening the health of my family or myself. So if they are willing to attack a bulldog with any means available to them I am safe to think I am next...
He can commence kickin' my dog with his hands in his pockets and still come after me next and I don't think I will be waiting to take the beating...
Sux to live in some states as an honest god fearin' man and even worse to live as a criminal in others...
Brent

[djohn]

Lets say a stranger Walks up on your property now hypothetically speaking lets say you have a electric invisable fence that keeps the dog in yrd.The guy approaches may be he say hello how you doing may be he says nothing until up close.Now lets say your dog feels threated of his or her territory and charges a full out attack.That stranger fears his life is in danger or bodily harm ,perhaps he been attacked before,perhaps he didn;t see your dog before he came on the property,and he pulls a gun and klills your dog.Now you draw to shoot him and perhaps its not fatal and he returns fire and kills you or perhaps a miss and the stray bullet pass through your home killing may be your wife or child.what if that stranger was going to ask for direction he was lost or he wanted some info on the car parked on the street l that has a sale sign in the window and he thought it belonged to you.A lot of maybe here but you just never know.

[Creature]

Serious reexamination of what constitutes an imminent threat and the use of deadly force to protect property is in order for some here. A dog is not considered a family member in any state. If you cant claim a dog as a dependent on your taxes, it aint a family member.

[JohnPaul]

property would have to be "put to sleep" by lead poisoning, the dog would have nothing to do with it. But what if you are out walking and a dog goes after me, I would use a knife or gun to protect myself,... interesting

[Mike Irwin]

"I disagree. No animal's life is worth more than a human's life. That is a point of law. And I am surprised that as a moderator you are publicly espousing this line of thinking."

Good. You have a different opinion. That's your right.


And what, just because I have a position on staff I can't have a contrarian opinion on something? Gee, that's a new one.

My opinions about the 'human' race should be well known to anyone who has been posting here for a long time, as this is not the first time this kind of question has come up.

[Sixer]

Not if the dirtbag's weapon is re-holstered its not.

You can keep making up different scenarios as you go, but holstered or not, if an uninvited guest kills my dog he/she likely does not come in peace. Im not saying that I would shoot someone just for killing my dog.

I'm just imagining hearing a gunshot on my property and coming out to find my dead dog and a man with a gun... At that point I would have reason to fear for my life.

[Mike Irwin]

"A dog is not considered a family member in any state. If you cant claim a dog as a dependent on your taxes, it aint a family member."

When I turned 18 my father could no longer claim me on his taxes, but I still lived at home.

Does that mean I was no longer a family member?

I suppose that you also have definitive case law that clearly states that under no circumstances can a companion animal be considered a family member?

In order to be equally applicable, it would need to be from the Federal court system.

In fact, pets DO have at least some "human" rights under law - such as the right to inherit property from their owners. Pets can be made the sole inheritor of an estate. Of course a conservator has to be appointed to administer the holding. But, you know what, that sounds a lot like what happens when a child inherits...

[KLRANGL]

This high sense of nobility and reverence we seem to imbue in "humanity" is as misplaced as it is wasted.

Someone after me own heart...

"Well, if he's an angel, all right then... But he damn well must be a killer angel. Colonel, darling, you're a lovely man. I see a vast difference between us, yet I admire you, lad. You're an idealist, praise be. The truth is, Colonel... There is no "divine spark". There's many a man alive of no more of value than a dead dog. Believe me. When you've seen them hang each other the way I have back in the Old Country. Equality? What I'm fighting for is to prove I'm a better man than many of them. Where have you seen this "divine spark" in operation, Colonel? Where have you noted this magnificent equality? No two things on Earth are equal or have an equal chance. Bit a leaf, nor a tree. There's many a man worse than me, and some better..."
-Buster Kilrain in Gettysburg