RCBS Small Base Dies--And the M1 Garand?

golfnutrlv · November 11, 2010, 11:53 AM

Hi everyone.

Been doing a lot of research lately on M1 Garand's. Planning on putting an order in for a CMP Service grade soon.

I have been doing research on load data, powders, primers, etc.

It occurs to me though, should I use Small Base dies for the Garand, or stick to full length?

Give me your thoughts. Dies would be RCBS, that's all I use.

Thanks...

BombthePeasants · November 11, 2010, 12:03 PM

I have seen many previous threads and posts on this subject, both here and at the CMP forums, and the general consensus is that the small base die is really not generally worth it. the dimensions of the Garand chamber are generous enough that the regular die sets work just fine.

Personally, I have now fired 132 rounds of reloads through my rifle, using the Lee .30-06 dies, and have not encountered any problems. As others chime in, I suspect most will concur w/ me, that the regular dies are perfectly suitable.

I suspect that small base dies really come into their own w/ other rifles, like perhaps pump-action or lever-action rifles? Just a thought.

Tim R · November 11, 2010, 03:30 PM

I have not found a need for small based dies for sizing brass used in any of my M-1's. Up to this point, I've used a RCBS F/L size die for all of my '06 work. I bought a Forester size die with a match seating die I will be using next time I load '06.

NWPilgrim · November 11, 2010, 03:50 PM

No need. The Sierra website actually says small base dies are generally not needed for military semi-auto because they have more generous chambers for reliability.

I have loaded and shot several hundred rounds using RCBS FL resizing and X-Die in my Garands and have had no problems.

I think most companies would easily exchange your sizing die if you bought the regular FL die and then found you needed a small base die instead. Chances are the regular die is fine.

F. Guffey · November 11, 2010, 05:21 PM

Yes, the Internet is not a source of reliable information, the M1 Garand chamber dimensions have been published in gunsmith books since the 60s, problem today the chamber of the M1 is being cut with a 30/06 reamer, good news Sierra in their reloading book under definition of terms says the small base die is not a small base die, they claim the small base die is more like a precision full length sizer die that is on the minimum side of the dimensions.

Then there are those that claim to have sized cases with both dies the standard and small base die and claim there is a difference,, I do not claim I have, I have and distinguishing the difference is near to impossible, I have BAR dies, if there is a difference it is below .0002,

Then the base of the die that is sized is at least .125 thousands above the head of the case because of the shell holder deck height, on all of my dies the deck height is .125, then there is the plus of the radius of the die opening.

F. Guffey

crowbeaner · November 12, 2010, 02:45 PM

All my Garand ammo is loaded with RCBS SB dies. I swage the primer pockets, cut them to depth, uniform the flash holes, and trim to a uniform length.
LC brass, CCI military primer, 48.0 of WW 748 or BLC2, 147 to 150 grain ball bullet, crimp in groove.
46,000 CUP, SD and ES very good, won't bend the op-rod, and shoots MOA in a good rifle.

Edward Horton · November 12, 2010, 04:34 PM

golfnutrlv

If you are loading American commercial factory 30-06 cases the base diameter runs small and should "NOT" require small base dies in a military chamber. Over resizing the base web area of the case will excelerate case head separations.

Just remember to "NOT" use the "smaller" cartridges in your M1 they seem fit very loose.

BombthePeasants · November 12, 2010, 05:19 PM

I think that article was so cool. That brass really held up well, I would have thought it would crack or something. Amazing...

rg1 · November 12, 2010, 08:10 PM

I load for 4 different Garands and all are loaded with regular full-length sizing dies. I see no need for using small based dies. I do recommend a case gauge that will tell you how much you're pushing the shoulder back on your cases. Such as Hornady's Headspace set or RCBS's Precision Mic.
http://www.inlandshooters.net/index.php?contentid=99
http://www.realguns.com/archives/035.htm
The Hornady set is nice as it will allow you to measure most all rifle cases.

Steve in PA · November 12, 2010, 11:25 PM

I've reloaded for the M1 Garand and AR-15 for several years using nothing but the regular RCBS FL dies. A few years ago I went to the RCBS X-die for both.

kraigwy · November 12, 2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Just remember to "NOT" use the "smaller" cartridges in your M1 they seem fit very loose.

That's funny.

I was running sniper schools for the guards when we were switching from the M1C/Ds to the M21. We had ammo for both on the firing line.

I started finding several cases like you pictured. 7.62 being fired in the Garand Chambers.

I had to move my ammo supply where my armorer was the issuing NCO who knew who was firing what rifle.

November 11, 2010, 11:53 AM	#1
golfnutrlv Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 1,347	RCBS Small Base Dies--And the M1 Garand? Hi everyone. Been doing a lot of research lately on M1 Garand's. Planning on putting an order in for a CMP Service grade soon. I have been doing research on load data, powders, primers, etc. It occurs to me though, should I use Small Base dies for the Garand, or stick to full length? Give me your thoughts. Dies would be RCBS, that's all I use. Thanks... __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS "The price of liberty is vigilance" America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.

November 11, 2010, 03:30 PM	#3
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I have not found a need for small based dies for sizing brass used in any of my M-1's. Up to this point, I've used a RCBS F/L size die for all of my '06 work. I bought a Forester size die with a match seating die I will be using next time I load '06. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

November 11, 2010, 03:50 PM	#4
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	No need. The Sierra website actually says small base dies are generally not needed for military semi-auto because they have more generous chambers for reliability. I have loaded and shot several hundred rounds using RCBS FL resizing and X-Die in my Garands and have had no problems. I think most companies would easily exchange your sizing die if you bought the regular FL die and then found you needed a small base die instead. Chances are the regular die is fine. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

November 12, 2010, 02:45 PM	#6
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	All my Garand ammo is loaded with RCBS SB dies. I swage the primer pockets, cut them to depth, uniform the flash holes, and trim to a uniform length. LC brass, CCI military primer, 48.0 of WW 748 or BLC2, 147 to 150 grain ball bullet, crimp in groove. 46,000 CUP, SD and ES very good, won't bend the op-rod, and shoots MOA in a good rifle. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

November 12, 2010, 11:25 PM	#10
Steve in PA Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 756	I've reloaded for the M1 Garand and AR-15 for several years using nothing but the regular RCBS FL dies. A few years ago I went to the RCBS X-die for both. __________________ Steve

November 11, 2010, 12:03 PM	#2
BombthePeasants Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 351	I have seen many previous threads and posts on this subject, both here and at the CMP forums, and the general consensus is that the small base die is really not generally worth it. the dimensions of the Garand chamber are generous enough that the regular die sets work just fine. Personally, I have now fired 132 rounds of reloads through my rifle, using the Lee .30-06 dies, and have not encountered any problems. As others chime in, I suspect most will concur w/ me, that the regular dies are perfectly suitable. I suspect that small base dies really come into their own w/ other rifles, like perhaps pump-action or lever-action rifles? Just a thought.

November 11, 2010, 05:21 PM	#5
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Yes, the Internet is not a source of reliable information, the M1 Garand chamber dimensions have been published in gunsmith books since the 60s, problem today the chamber of the M1 is being cut with a 30/06 reamer, good news Sierra in their reloading book under definition of terms says the small base die is not a small base die, they claim the small base die is more like a precision full length sizer die that is on the minimum side of the dimensions. Then there are those that claim to have sized cases with both dies the standard and small base die and claim there is a difference,, I do not claim I have, I have and distinguishing the difference is near to impossible, I have BAR dies, if there is a difference it is below .0002, Then the base of the die that is sized is at least .125 thousands above the head of the case because of the shell holder deck height, on all of my dies the deck height is .125, then there is the plus of the radius of the die opening. F. Guffey

November 12, 2010, 04:34 PM	#7
Edward Horton Junior member Join Date: October 12, 2009 Posts: 70	golfnutrlv If you are loading American commercial factory 30-06 cases the base diameter runs small and should "NOT" require small base dies in a military chamber. Over resizing the base web area of the case will excelerate case head separations. Just remember to "NOT" use the "smaller" cartridges in your M1 they seem fit very loose.

November 12, 2010, 05:19 PM	#8
BombthePeasants Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 351	I think that article was so cool. That brass really held up well, I would have thought it would crack or something. Amazing...

November 12, 2010, 08:10 PM	#9
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	I load for 4 different Garands and all are loaded with regular full-length sizing dies. I see no need for using small based dies. I do recommend a case gauge that will tell you how much you're pushing the shoulder back on your cases. Such as Hornady's Headspace set or RCBS's Precision Mic. http://www.inlandshooters.net/index.php?contentid=99 http://www.realguns.com/archives/035.htm The Hornady set is nice as it will allow you to measure most all rifle cases.