Smith & Wesson snub 38 special +p (how are they?)

Dead · May 18, 2015, 04:28 PM

wife was able to try out a bunch of semi auto and a few revolver firearms today... now she wants a small 38special. i showed her a bunch of smith and wesson airweight 5 shots with exposed hammer, hammerless, and "hidden" hammer models both on blue and stainless. i dont remember model numbers, but what is the good and bad about these small snub 38's?

p.s. she can hit the center of the target with everything

. from small 380 bodyguard to full power 357 from a sorta small revolver and everything in between.

Doyle · May 18, 2015, 04:39 PM

They are generally built quite well. The only "problems" I've seen with them are cosmetic - the silver coated ones can start flaking after holster wear. I had a 442 (black anodized) and it was a quite decent little revolver. I sold it only because I wanted a model 438 (semi-exposed hammer) which I'm still looking for.

Dead · May 18, 2015, 04:49 PM

Looking at the follow models (as of now)

38 +p (all about $340)
442
642
638

357 about $500
640

Doyle · May 18, 2015, 05:00 PM

I would definitely not put her in a 640 - at least not expecting to fire .357's. The extremely short barrel wastes much of the power that a .357 would normally have over a .38 special and converts it into muzzle blast. It also weighs more than the .38 special models. When you are looking, remember that the 4?? are black anodized and the 6?? are silver coated. Both are aluminum framed (except for the high-dollar scandium framed models).

I know you mentioned only S&W snubnosed revolvers but you might also want to check out Ruger's LCR. You can get than in 9mm.

Nick_C_S · May 18, 2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

what is the good and bad about these small snub 38's?

The Smith J-frame (the family of .38 snubs) is among the most tried and true of any line of revolvers. To my knowledge, all the modern J-frames can handle +P rated ammo. I have a 1984 model 60, and S&W assured me that it is +P rated (even though it doesn't specify). So they're built plenty sturdy.

I don't carry my J-frame. If I were to carry one, I'd choose a hammerless, double-action-only model. Just my 2-cents. I see no point in having single action in a snubbie. (I see no point in having single action in any revolver; with the exception of cowboy action, those with weak hands or other disabilities, or hunting applications.)

The "bad" of these little revolvers is just that - they're little. Recoil can be sharp. They can be difficult to handle. My hands are smaller than average (but bigger than most women's), and I find them too small to grip well. Their short barrels make ammo selection more critical. And of course, short barrel guns are difficult to aim and are really only useful at close distances (which is fine if it is being used for carry defense).

But overall, I'm all for anybody who are comfortable shooting them and they want to carry for self-defense. Compact, simple, reliable, sufficiently potent.

Nick_C_S · May 18, 2015, 05:40 PM

Quote:

I would definitely not put her in a 640

I definitely would

But not to shoot 357 ammo though it. As a man, if I carried one, I'd load it with 38+P's.

I like the 640 for a few reasons:

It's an all-stainless frame, so it's got a little mass to it. The barrel end and extractor rod is shrouded, so there's a little more mass up front. Further adding to the mass, it has a precious 1/4" more barrel length than the usual 1.875". And because it's a 357, and not a 38, there is a further mass gain from the longer cylinder. These things alltogether make it a better handling gun than most the other J-frames.

It's double-action only; thus, eliminating the need for a hammer. Hammers and concealment are generally not compatible.

And since we're talking about such short barrels here, that extra 1/4 inch of length is actually ballistically significant (probably 20 f/s or so). It's not much, but every little bit counts.

wpsdlrg · May 18, 2015, 05:44 PM

"Felt recoil" is a highly subjective thing. All I can say is that the "Airweight" and "Airlite" S&W's produce heavy recoil - the stronger the load, the worse it is. The "Airlite" 357 magnums are just outrageous on this (they HURT). The regular "Airweight" alloy framed guns, at about 15 oz. empty, are bad, but tolerable. A good recoil absorbing grip helps. Light target loads help, but those are not much good for SD.

Many make the mistake of thinking that these are good "beginner's" guns or "ladies" guns - not so. They are challenging to learn to shoot well and the recoil doesn't help. Many women simply will quit these guns, after 1 round, or even 1 cylinder load.

I carry an Airweight S&W 442, which was originally purchased new for a youngish lady, who quit the thing after THREE rounds (and not even +P's at that). I got it at a steal. I am a big guy (6'4" and 270 lbs) and I consider the recoil excessive.

So, use that information as you will, but be forewarned. Suffice it to say, I do NOT recommend one of these guns for ladies or beginners - unless the person in question is pretty "tough".

Dead · May 18, 2015, 05:56 PM

she has shot full power 357mag from a smallish revolver already, doesnt bother her too much (though she much prefers reg 38's). she has shot everything from 22lr to "super mags 454, 460, 500mag using corbon loads..

the thing is to find something she likes

j102 · May 18, 2015, 06:22 PM

Another vote for the Ruger LCR 357. For her, my advice would be to load it with 38+Ps.
The reason I mention the 357 model is because it is mainly built of stainless steel, particularly where is needed, for its durability and weight. And with the Hogue grips is not bad to shoot.

Skeets · May 18, 2015, 07:49 PM

One thing to add to good info already posted.Ruger's LCR's (centerfire) are praised for their light,smooth DA trigger pull.

JeffK · May 18, 2015, 08:07 PM

I have a M&P340, great little gun and +p 38's are no problem at all, not much more snap than a standard 38. .357 magnums are a whole 'nother story, the gun is a beast when firing those, like catching a fastball with your bare hand. There isn't a lot of advantage to .357 in these guns anyways (barrel is too short to develop .357-magnum class velocities), so not a lot of point except to freak out your friend by slipping one in the cylinder among the .38s.

wpsdlrg · May 18, 2015, 08:14 PM

Then there you go. If the lady in question is not recoil sensitive, your job is a million times easier.

Any of the S&W j-frames are good, reliable guns. This includes the alloy-framed ones. There are a number of different models, in both aluminum alloy and steel (frames).

The Ruger LCR is reputed to be a good choice. Have not owned or shot one, but I do know that they have a nice trigger.

The Ruger SP101 is a very nice gun. Very solid and reliable, easy to strip and clean. Heavier than a j-frame or an LCR, though.

Basically, you won't go wrong with most any of the choices in small revolvers, especially if you stick to S&W or Ruger. Even the Taurus model 85 is usually a solid, reliable little revolver (but you are taking a bit more risk with them, as QC can sometimes vary a good bit).

It comes down to having her handle (and if possible, shoot) as many different choices as she can.

Since it sounds as if only revolvers are being considered....I'll stop there.

2damnold4this · May 18, 2015, 08:14 PM

I enjoy shooting my 642, a concealed hammer Airweight. I don't shoot +Ps when practicing and usually carry Hornady's 110 grain Critical Defense loads. As with any handgun, especially an Airweight, I try to dry fire practice regularly.

If your wife can, she should rent one and shoot it at a range to see if she likes it.

Cousin Pat · May 18, 2015, 08:21 PM

RugerLCRx-3 in 38spec -- rated for +P but she should use non-+P, at least for starters. http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5431.html. And still smaller (but then more difficult to shoot effectively) - http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5401.html
CT laser grip models available.

243winxb · May 18, 2015, 08:44 PM

Go for the lightest one. Big difference between my 10 oz 337PD when compared to my 16 oz M60. Both in 38 special. Some require only jacketed bullet in +P loadings. Lead may jump crimp.

CajunBass · May 19, 2015, 05:17 AM

My EDC is a 642-2, that used to belong to my wife. I had a 442 at the same time. They're both good guns. About the only down side to them is recoil, and that can be taken care of with a set of Hogue Recoil Tamer grips, or something similar.

I haven't seen any finish wear on the 642. I got no idea how old it is. I've only had it a few months, but I got it used. I do carry it every day in an OWB holster.

I guess one other "down" is that it's so light I can't tell I've got it sometime and have to feel to make sure it's there. I also don't worry much about a heavy "gun belt" anymore.

I'm also one who said I didn't see what the big deal about the J-frame was...until I tried one.

I looked at a Ruger LCR, but couldn't get past the ugly. As with most other Ruger revolvers.

lamarw · May 19, 2015, 02:26 PM

My old Model 42 Centennial has a rather stout recoil with regular .38 Special rounds. I am not saying it is unmanageable, but it does become less enjoyable to fire as the round count advances per shooting session.

I would not seek out heavier loads.

Colt46 · May 19, 2015, 04:23 PM

A real pussycat to shoot in .38 spl. The only downside is the weight.

Dead · May 19, 2015, 05:49 PM

found out my uncle has a sw airweight 38, so she will be trying one out soon

Doc TH · May 19, 2015, 08:38 PM

I have to agree with Nick CS on this. The 640 is heavier than the airweight models, though not excessively so. The extra weight buys a more comfortable experience in shooting +P ammo. Shooting 357 rounds in a 640 is not particularly unpleasant in my experience, but that's not something you want to do on a regular basis. Moreover, you're trading recoil, flash, and perhaps less accuracy or shooting speed for a bit more power; I prefer better controllability and accuracy over a marginal increase in velocity. Your wife may be able to shoot 357 ammo in a J-frame without problems, but I expect that after 5-10 rounds her enthusiasm would diminish. For most people, shooting many rounds of +P ammo in airweights becomes unpleasant, whereas in a 640 it is not a problem. Tradeoff is weight vs comfort and control.

David R · May 20, 2015, 10:32 AM

Aluminum frame, steel cylinder, accurate as can be. Has Crimson Trace laser grip.

It resides on my left ankle a LOT of the time.

David

Don P · May 20, 2015, 11:08 AM

Personal opinion here is don't get her an Airweight. Perceived recoil will be much more due to the weigh of the revolver. I carry a 649 and ammo is 38 spl. for me this allows faster follow up shots with better accuracy due to less recoil. Just my opinion

Grant D · May 20, 2015, 12:54 PM

I just bought my wife a S&W Model 642 Lady Smith, because I wanted to get my model 637 back she commandeered from me years ago.
She has no problem with J frames or Detective Specials( she's 66 years old )

I now have the 637 on MY hip

Clark · May 21, 2015, 02:51 AM

In my pocket I have a 642-2 airweight 38sp made in 2007 I got used for $400 in 2014.

Under my mattress I have a 640-1 357 mag I got used for $300 in 2011.
I have never carried it. It is too heavy.

Model12Win · May 21, 2015, 11:14 AM

The J-frames are nice, I'm here to tell you. Here is mine:

While it might not have as much stopping power as a Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft piece, or have the same firepower as a GAU-8 30mm rotary cannon, these little guys are concealable and the reliability is just... it's just great! Stopping power isn't bad with a good .38 special +P JHP load. I carry this gun when I can't bring along my mule and 75mm pack howitzer.

May 18, 2015, 04:28 PM	#1
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	Smith & Wesson snub 38 special +p (how are they?) wife was able to try out a bunch of semi auto and a few revolver firearms today... now she wants a small 38special. i showed her a bunch of smith and wesson airweight 5 shots with exposed hammer, hammerless, and "hidden" hammer models both on blue and stainless. i dont remember model numbers, but what is the good and bad about these small snub 38's? p.s. she can hit the center of the target with everything . from small 380 bodyguard to full power 357 from a sorta small revolver and everything in between. __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org

May 18, 2015, 04:49 PM	#3
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	Looking at the follow models (as of now) 38 +p (all about $340) 442 642 638 357 about $500 640 __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org

May 18, 2015, 05:56 PM	#8
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	she has shot full power 357mag from a smallish revolver already, doesnt bother her too much (though she much prefers reg 38's). she has shot everything from 22lr to "super mags 454, 460, 500mag using corbon loads.. the thing is to find something she likes __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org

May 18, 2015, 07:49 PM	#10
Skeets Member in memoriam Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 583	One thing to add to good info already posted.Ruger's LCR's (centerfire) are praised for their light,smooth DA trigger pull. __________________ Skeets "Over Kill Never Fails"

May 18, 2015, 08:21 PM	#14
Cousin Pat Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Posts: 140	Ruger 38 spec RugerLCRx-3 in 38spec -- rated for +P but she should use non-+P, at least for starters. http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5431.html. And still smaller (but then more difficult to shoot effectively) - http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5401.html CT laser grip models available.

May 18, 2015, 04:39 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	They are generally built quite well. The only "problems" I've seen with them are cosmetic - the silver coated ones can start flaking after holster wear. I had a 442 (black anodized) and it was a quite decent little revolver. I sold it only because I wanted a model 438 (semi-exposed hammer) which I'm still looking for.

May 18, 2015, 05:00 PM	#4
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	I would definitely not put her in a 640 - at least not expecting to fire .357's. The extremely short barrel wastes much of the power that a .357 would normally have over a .38 special and converts it into muzzle blast. It also weighs more than the .38 special models. When you are looking, remember that the 4?? are black anodized and the 6?? are silver coated. Both are aluminum framed (except for the high-dollar scandium framed models). I know you mentioned only S&W snubnosed revolvers but you might also want to check out Ruger's LCR. You can get than in 9mm.

May 18, 2015, 05:44 PM	#7
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	"Felt recoil" is a highly subjective thing. All I can say is that the "Airweight" and "Airlite" S&W's produce heavy recoil - the stronger the load, the worse it is. The "Airlite" 357 magnums are just outrageous on this (they HURT). The regular "Airweight" alloy framed guns, at about 15 oz. empty, are bad, but tolerable. A good recoil absorbing grip helps. Light target loads help, but those are not much good for SD. Many make the mistake of thinking that these are good "beginner's" guns or "ladies" guns - not so. They are challenging to learn to shoot well and the recoil doesn't help. Many women simply will quit these guns, after 1 round, or even 1 cylinder load. I carry an Airweight S&W 442, which was originally purchased new for a youngish lady, who quit the thing after THREE rounds (and not even +P's at that). I got it at a steal. I am a big guy (6'4" and 270 lbs) and I consider the recoil excessive. So, use that information as you will, but be forewarned. Suffice it to say, I do NOT recommend one of these guns for ladies or beginners - unless the person in question is pretty "tough".

May 18, 2015, 06:22 PM	#9
j102 Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Posts: 64	Another vote for the Ruger LCR 357. For her, my advice would be to load it with 38+Ps. The reason I mention the 357 model is because it is mainly built of stainless steel, particularly where is needed, for its durability and weight. And with the Hogue grips is not bad to shoot.

May 18, 2015, 08:07 PM	#11
JeffK Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2014 Posts: 206	I have a M&P340, great little gun and +p 38's are no problem at all, not much more snap than a standard 38. .357 magnums are a whole 'nother story, the gun is a beast when firing those, like catching a fastball with your bare hand. There isn't a lot of advantage to .357 in these guns anyways (barrel is too short to develop .357-magnum class velocities), so not a lot of point except to freak out your friend by slipping one in the cylinder among the .38s.

May 18, 2015, 08:14 PM	#12
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	Then there you go. If the lady in question is not recoil sensitive, your job is a million times easier. Any of the S&W j-frames are good, reliable guns. This includes the alloy-framed ones. There are a number of different models, in both aluminum alloy and steel (frames). The Ruger LCR is reputed to be a good choice. Have not owned or shot one, but I do know that they have a nice trigger. The Ruger SP101 is a very nice gun. Very solid and reliable, easy to strip and clean. Heavier than a j-frame or an LCR, though. Basically, you won't go wrong with most any of the choices in small revolvers, especially if you stick to S&W or Ruger. Even the Taurus model 85 is usually a solid, reliable little revolver (but you are taking a bit more risk with them, as QC can sometimes vary a good bit). It comes down to having her handle (and if possible, shoot) as many different choices as she can. Since it sounds as if only revolvers are being considered....I'll stop there.

May 18, 2015, 08:14 PM	#13
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I enjoy shooting my 642, a concealed hammer Airweight. I don't shoot +Ps when practicing and usually carry Hornady's 110 grain Critical Defense loads. As with any handgun, especially an Airweight, I try to dry fire practice regularly. If your wife can, she should rent one and shoot it at a range to see if she likes it.

May 18, 2015, 08:44 PM	#15
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Pocket carry- Weight Go for the lightest one. Big difference between my 10 oz 337PD when compared to my 16 oz M60. Both in 38 special. Some require only jacketed bullet in +P loadings. Lead may jump crimp.

May 19, 2015, 05:17 AM	#16
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	My EDC is a 642-2, that used to belong to my wife. I had a 442 at the same time. They're both good guns. About the only down side to them is recoil, and that can be taken care of with a set of Hogue Recoil Tamer grips, or something similar. I haven't seen any finish wear on the 642. I got no idea how old it is. I've only had it a few months, but I got it used. I do carry it every day in an OWB holster. I guess one other "down" is that it's so light I can't tell I've got it sometime and have to feel to make sure it's there. I also don't worry much about a heavy "gun belt" anymore. I'm also one who said I didn't see what the big deal about the J-frame was...until I tried one. I looked at a Ruger LCR, but couldn't get past the ugly. As with most other Ruger revolvers. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

May 19, 2015, 02:26 PM	#17
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	My old Model 42 Centennial has a rather stout recoil with regular .38 Special rounds. I am not saying it is unmanageable, but it does become less enjoyable to fire as the round count advances per shooting session. I would not seek out heavier loads.

May 19, 2015, 04:23 PM	#18
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	SP-101 A real pussycat to shoot in .38 spl. The only downside is the weight.

May 19, 2015, 05:49 PM	#19
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	found out my uncle has a sw airweight 38, so she will be trying one out soon __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org

May 19, 2015, 08:38 PM	#20
Doc TH Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Posts: 633	I have to agree with Nick CS on this. The 640 is heavier than the airweight models, though not excessively so. The extra weight buys a more comfortable experience in shooting +P ammo. Shooting 357 rounds in a 640 is not particularly unpleasant in my experience, but that's not something you want to do on a regular basis. Moreover, you're trading recoil, flash, and perhaps less accuracy or shooting speed for a bit more power; I prefer better controllability and accuracy over a marginal increase in velocity. Your wife may be able to shoot 357 ammo in a J-frame without problems, but I expect that after 5-10 rounds her enthusiasm would diminish. For most people, shooting many rounds of +P ammo in airweights becomes unpleasant, whereas in a 640 it is not a problem. Tradeoff is weight vs comfort and control.

May 20, 2015, 10:32 AM	#21
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	637 Aluminum frame, steel cylinder, accurate as can be. Has Crimson Trace laser grip. It resides on my left ankle a LOT of the time. David

May 20, 2015, 11:08 AM	#22
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Personal opinion here is don't get her an Airweight. Perceived recoil will be much more due to the weigh of the revolver. I carry a 649 and ammo is 38 spl. for me this allows faster follow up shots with better accuracy due to less recoil. Just my opinion __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

May 20, 2015, 12:54 PM	#23
Grant D Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2011 Location: Brazos County, Texas Posts: 1,038	I just bought my wife a S&W Model 642 Lady Smith, because I wanted to get my model 637 back she commandeered from me years ago. She has no problem with J frames or Detective Specials( she's 66 years old ) I now have the 637 on MY hip

May 21, 2015, 02:51 AM	#24
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	In my pocket I have a 642-2 airweight 38sp made in 2007 I got used for $400 in 2014. Under my mattress I have a 640-1 357 mag I got used for $300 in 2011. I have never carried it. It is too heavy. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

May 21, 2015, 11:14 AM	#25
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	The J-frames are nice, I'm here to tell you. Here is mine: While it might not have as much stopping power as a Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft piece, or have the same firepower as a GAU-8 30mm rotary cannon, these little guys are concealable and the reliability is just... it's just great! Stopping power isn't bad with a good .38 special +P JHP load. I carry this gun when I can't bring along my mule and 75mm pack howitzer.