August FTX.

PvtPyle · August 25, 2002, 05:50 PM

Well, we are all back from the August FTX. There were 10 of us in all including some visitors from out of state. Myself, Impact, Tire Iron, Lugnut, Correia, Riz, Strat, Different and his wife, and Penguin. All in all the initial feedback was positive on the weekend.

There were several learning experiences. First, humping around the neighborhood with 80lbs means you will be able to do 50lbs in our AO. The steep and unstable terrain play hell on your hips and legs joints when humping even a light load.

Second, the selection of good gear makes all the difference in the world. Impact had some major gear failures with the standard GI 782 gear. Also making sure you have a good pack and pack it correctly is a big issue. I did not take the big pack out this time, I used my smaller German pack. It looks like my big pack will now be regulated to long term mounted use, and cold weather ops. More on the mounted ops later.

Third, Water and bringing enough of it can not be stressed enough. We had a close call on Saturday as a team ran out of water during a patrol. You have to make sure you have enough water with you when you leave your ruck at the LUP. Water is heavy, but without it you WILL die. Getting a few canteens and a Camel Bak of some kind is not an option, it is mandatory if you want to survive. The CB allows you to hydrate over a long period of time instead of pounding down water when you take a break. You can re-fill from the cateens until you get back to the LUP. Also on the same note, electrolites are also a MUST HAVE. Getting a canteen full and sipping from it on breaks will dramaticly improve your condition over the course of the day. By drinking only water you do not get the other things the body needs, and it can kill you.

Fourth, distances can be very deceptive in these foot hills. Getting a good map and orientating yourself as you move is a very good idea.

Fifth, walking sucks, especially under a heavy load. We covered between 25-30 miles by my calculations over the three days. Most of it was up very steep grades. No way to get around alot of it, but the hike in could have greatly improved our condition later on if we had trucked in. But we would not have gained some very valuable info about the AO. That said, moving to the AO and around the AO by vehicle can greatly improve your effectiveness and extend your range of operation. If your AO permits, I highly recommend getting an ATV or SUV that you can use for off-road and troop movements. It also allows you to also carry much more in the way of supplies and as we learned, can be used to evacuate casualties to safety. Next year we will work on operating from a mobile platform. We saw many ATV's while out there, and when being operated in a rational manner, they can get VERY close to you before you know they are there.

I had a great time and hope everyone else is hurting as bad as I am 8^). I look forward to everyones comments. If you did not make this one, you really need to get out in the field for a weekend with someone who knows what they are doing and put yourself and your gear thru it's paces. If you have not done this a good bit, I promise you, you will learn alot from the experience. And there is no substitue for field experience.

Correia · August 26, 2002, 11:08 AM

I hurt everywhere. Especially my ankles and calves.

This was great fun. I just wanted to be able to put my gear to a realistic test. I just didn’t want to be one of those guys who buys a pile of gear and lets it lie around gathering dust, and they are going to break it out “just in case” and assume that it is going to work. That way I could blabber on the internet about what I would do if SHTF. (damn I hate that term) This was a great test of both gear, and your body. My gear came out fine, it was my body that was lacking.

I carried in 6 liters of water, a 90 oz. Camel bak, and 4 lites of Gatorade. It was all gone by Sunday morning. It was only 85-90 degrees during the day, but it sure seemed hotter when you are moving along at over 5000 feet on rocky shale.

I carried my FAL and 200 rounds of .308 on my webgear. I just wanted to see about all the folks who argue about how .308 is just too heavy, and how you can carry lots more ammo with the .223. I will agree that you can pack more ammo with the .223, but 200 rounds of .308 actually wasn’t that bad if you have good places to put it on your webbing. (2 GI M16 pouches with 2 mags each on front, and a South African Hippo pack on the back.) The FAL wasn’t that bad to lug around in patrol position. Personally I don’t see the big deal.

I tell you what, I’m not in the shape I used to be! That was hard work. I got to learn about patrolling, and that is a lot more difficult that just walking. Still physically I did ok. Not great, but I hung in there. (Not bad for a 300 pounder). We did have one guy who should be on the Eco challenge though, this guy was indestructible.

And 3rd Gen night vision is one of the coolest things I have ever seen. Once you play with that stuff you can see why US troops own the night. No joke, it is that good.

I found a great poor man’s Powerbar. Flour Tortillas. 240 calories per tortilla! And they are portable. After this weekend, all I can say is thank goodness for trail mix. That is good stuff.

All in all I learned lots of good stuff. I also learned what items would be great to add to my emergency kit. Including stuff you wouldn’t normally think of, like baby wipes, alcohol pads, para cord, electrical tape. Good stuff to have. And good boots, boy I tell you what I need some better boots.

Riz · August 26, 2002, 04:14 PM

This what the first FTF I had with most of these people...very top notch folks. Our out of town people, hard core comes to mind. Knowing that I have people like Impact, Tire Iron, Lugnut, Correia and Penguin im my AO makes me damn proud to be a 'Utahan'.

LOL what can you say about Pyle...LOL...when PvtPyle speaks...listen folks...this dude knows his ****. Plain and simple...the man is no 'armchair'. He impressed the hell out of me. Nuff said about that.

LOL....running out of water when you have over 4 liters in your pack back at camp SUCKS! I left on patrol with one canteen and a 100 oz Camel Bak. I came back with big sweat rings on my shirt and ZERO water. LOL...live and learn. I felt good that we have such knowledgable people out there.

This beat my ass. Was good for me. I was dragging ass very hard. Teach me right for not being out in the field for that long again and letting my self get that out of shape.

As for my gear...I knew my ruck sucked before I got out there so that was no suprize. I have said it many times, Alice packs SUCK!
My vest has been with me out in the field a bit. Its good, I like it. I put 2 mag pouches on the back of my belt by the but pack...they kept moving forward. That sucked. Have to find a way to hold them back there. I need a better sling for my Vepr. I like the one Pyle had....need to pick something like that up. I was very impressed with Different Becker 3 day patrol pack...need one I think.

The desert tiger strip kicked ass IMHO. I will be picking up a full set of them. Liked them very much.

Thank you guys for letting me be apart of this. I hope to be able to go out and train/shoot/or whatever alot more. Very impressed with these guys. Great people.
My .1/2 Cents
Riz

Correia · August 26, 2002, 05:33 PM

Pyle. When are we going to get the pictures from Rob? I bet we looked like a motley bunch. To bad we didn't get a before and after shot.

I had to shower for 45 minutes to get clean.

Riz, I'm glad you had a good time. I had a blast. Very educational trip.

August 25, 2002, 05:50 PM	#1
PvtPyle Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: SLC Posts: 261	August FTX. Well, we are all back from the August FTX. There were 10 of us in all including some visitors from out of state. Myself, Impact, Tire Iron, Lugnut, Correia, Riz, Strat, Different and his wife, and Penguin. All in all the initial feedback was positive on the weekend. There were several learning experiences. First, humping around the neighborhood with 80lbs means you will be able to do 50lbs in our AO. The steep and unstable terrain play hell on your hips and legs joints when humping even a light load. Second, the selection of good gear makes all the difference in the world. Impact had some major gear failures with the standard GI 782 gear. Also making sure you have a good pack and pack it correctly is a big issue. I did not take the big pack out this time, I used my smaller German pack. It looks like my big pack will now be regulated to long term mounted use, and cold weather ops. More on the mounted ops later. Third, Water and bringing enough of it can not be stressed enough. We had a close call on Saturday as a team ran out of water during a patrol. You have to make sure you have enough water with you when you leave your ruck at the LUP. Water is heavy, but without it you WILL die. Getting a few canteens and a Camel Bak of some kind is not an option, it is mandatory if you want to survive. The CB allows you to hydrate over a long period of time instead of pounding down water when you take a break. You can re-fill from the cateens until you get back to the LUP. Also on the same note, electrolites are also a MUST HAVE. Getting a canteen full and sipping from it on breaks will dramaticly improve your condition over the course of the day. By drinking only water you do not get the other things the body needs, and it can kill you. Fourth, distances can be very deceptive in these foot hills. Getting a good map and orientating yourself as you move is a very good idea. Fifth, walking sucks, especially under a heavy load. We covered between 25-30 miles by my calculations over the three days. Most of it was up very steep grades. No way to get around alot of it, but the hike in could have greatly improved our condition later on if we had trucked in. But we would not have gained some very valuable info about the AO. That said, moving to the AO and around the AO by vehicle can greatly improve your effectiveness and extend your range of operation. If your AO permits, I highly recommend getting an ATV or SUV that you can use for off-road and troop movements. It also allows you to also carry much more in the way of supplies and as we learned, can be used to evacuate casualties to safety. Next year we will work on operating from a mobile platform. We saw many ATV's while out there, and when being operated in a rational manner, they can get VERY close to you before you know they are there. I had a great time and hope everyone else is hurting as bad as I am 8^). I look forward to everyones comments. If you did not make this one, you really need to get out in the field for a weekend with someone who knows what they are doing and put yourself and your gear thru it's paces. If you have not done this a good bit, I promise you, you will learn alot from the experience. And there is no substitue for field experience. __________________ http://pvtpyle.com Got camo? Not like this you dont! " It is the very nature of power that it attracts the very sort of people who should not have it. The United States, as the world's last superpower, is a prize that attracts men and women willing to do anything to win that power, and hence are willing to do anything with it once they have it. It is racist to assume that tyrants appear only in other nations and that somehow America is immune simply because we're Americans. America has escaped the clutches of a dictatorship only through the efforts of those citizens who, unlike the Germans and Russians of the 1930s, have the moral courage to stand up and point out where the government is lying to the people." -- Michael Rivero The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence, clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary" -- H.L. Mencken

August 26, 2002, 11:08 AM	#2
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,740	I hurt everywhere. Especially my ankles and calves. This was great fun. I just wanted to be able to put my gear to a realistic test. I just didn’t want to be one of those guys who buys a pile of gear and lets it lie around gathering dust, and they are going to break it out “just in case” and assume that it is going to work. That way I could blabber on the internet about what I would do if SHTF. (damn I hate that term) This was a great test of both gear, and your body. My gear came out fine, it was my body that was lacking. I carried in 6 liters of water, a 90 oz. Camel bak, and 4 lites of Gatorade. It was all gone by Sunday morning. It was only 85-90 degrees during the day, but it sure seemed hotter when you are moving along at over 5000 feet on rocky shale. I carried my FAL and 200 rounds of .308 on my webgear. I just wanted to see about all the folks who argue about how .308 is just too heavy, and how you can carry lots more ammo with the .223. I will agree that you can pack more ammo with the .223, but 200 rounds of .308 actually wasn’t that bad if you have good places to put it on your webbing. (2 GI M16 pouches with 2 mags each on front, and a South African Hippo pack on the back.) The FAL wasn’t that bad to lug around in patrol position. Personally I don’t see the big deal. I tell you what, I’m not in the shape I used to be! That was hard work. I got to learn about patrolling, and that is a lot more difficult that just walking. Still physically I did ok. Not great, but I hung in there. (Not bad for a 300 pounder). We did have one guy who should be on the Eco challenge though, this guy was indestructible. And 3rd Gen night vision is one of the coolest things I have ever seen. Once you play with that stuff you can see why US troops own the night. No joke, it is that good. I found a great poor man’s Powerbar. Flour Tortillas. 240 calories per tortilla! And they are portable. After this weekend, all I can say is thank goodness for trail mix. That is good stuff. All in all I learned lots of good stuff. I also learned what items would be great to add to my emergency kit. Including stuff you wouldn’t normally think of, like baby wipes, alcohol pads, para cord, electrical tape. Good stuff to have. And good boots, boy I tell you what I need some better boots.

August 26, 2002, 04:14 PM	#3
Riz Member Join Date: June 17, 2002 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 42	This what the first FTF I had with most of these people...very top notch folks. Our out of town people, hard core comes to mind. Knowing that I have people like Impact, Tire Iron, Lugnut, Correia and Penguin im my AO makes me damn proud to be a 'Utahan'. LOL what can you say about Pyle...LOL...when PvtPyle speaks...listen folks...this dude knows his ****. Plain and simple...the man is no 'armchair'. He impressed the hell out of me. Nuff said about that. LOL....running out of water when you have over 4 liters in your pack back at camp SUCKS! I left on patrol with one canteen and a 100 oz Camel Bak. I came back with big sweat rings on my shirt and ZERO water. LOL...live and learn. I felt good that we have such knowledgable people out there. This beat my ass. Was good for me. I was dragging ass very hard. Teach me right for not being out in the field for that long again and letting my self get that out of shape. As for my gear...I knew my ruck sucked before I got out there so that was no suprize. I have said it many times, Alice packs SUCK! My vest has been with me out in the field a bit. Its good, I like it. I put 2 mag pouches on the back of my belt by the but pack...they kept moving forward. That sucked. Have to find a way to hold them back there. I need a better sling for my Vepr. I like the one Pyle had....need to pick something like that up. I was very impressed with Different Becker 3 day patrol pack...need one I think. The desert tiger strip kicked ass IMHO. I will be picking up a full set of them. Liked them very much. Thank you guys for letting me be apart of this. I hope to be able to go out and train/shoot/or whatever alot more. Very impressed with these guys. Great people. My .1/2 Cents Riz

August 26, 2002, 05:33 PM	#4
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,740	Pyle. When are we going to get the pictures from Rob? I bet we looked like a motley bunch. To bad we didn't get a before and after shot. I had to shower for 45 minutes to get clean. Riz, I'm glad you had a good time. I had a blast. Very educational trip.