largest game that can be humanely taken with a 9mm carbine? - Page 2

FirstFreedom · October 9, 2006, 09:44 AM

springmom is right on. There IS a discrepancy, but the discrepancy can be explained by two factors, both relating to the difference in the nature of hunting versus self-defense....

1. First, in a self-defense scenario, the violent aggressor against whom one is justified in taking a shot at, is by definition (in order to be justified), coming directly at you, threatening you with some sort of violence. In this situation, 99% of the time, the threat is presented at close range, in full view. Easier target; easier to hit vital zone; less gun needed.

2. Perhaps even more importantly is the fact that with game, it RUNS when it gets hit, and you have to find it after only one hit (typically). The polar opposite of self-defense. In self-defense, the goal is to stop the attack, so if the target runs off, great; mission accomplished. No need to track and find the violent aggressor, necessarily. And, if the BG keeps coming, he presents himself to you for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or more shots. The more shots you get, the less a big gun is important because of the increased likelihood of a good hit, and cumulative effect of multiple hits. With game, it is critical that you find the animal in the wilderness from the blood trail created from just one hit. Which is very difficult to do potentially. Hence, a bigger gun is a necessity to (ideally) create an exit wound, for a better blood trail.

But, having said all that, there is a counterpoint which mikejones's question valid....that is that with a violent aggressor who is potentially about to kill you, a one-shot stop is far more important than a OSS is for a game animal which is not a threat to you. And all things being equal, the bigger the gun, the more likely you will get an OSS (roughly correlated). So, it can be argued both ways...

FirstFreedom · October 9, 2006, 09:46 AM

oops, double tap.

springmom · October 9, 2006, 10:23 AM

LOL. Isn't everyone's favorite round magical? You'd think so, from the caliber wars over on Hogan's Alley.

Springmom

Krull · October 9, 2006, 11:12 AM

While you could whack a deer with a 9MM it would be hard,your 7.62X39MM is just wonderful for a med-size deer gun.

As far as pistol rounds in a carbine for deer I'd suggest the .357 mag,load a 158 to 180gr bullet with the right make (i.e. softpoint) and your good to go.

castnblast · October 9, 2006, 11:25 AM

Oldbill, is that dik-dik antelope? That's a good 9mm choice if I ever saw one...

mikejonestkd · October 9, 2006, 03:10 PM

I would regard self defense against an armed assailant in a similar light to stopping a charging cape buffalo.....hit it well and hit with something big enough to turn it or stop it.

But thats for another link in another section on the firing line...

I would be comfortable with hunting with any reasonably effective round.
I would feel better if I was armed with a bazooka in a self defense situation.

I guess I am just tired of the tacticalcool guys telling me that the .223 or the 9mm is the best thing since sliced bread for anything that walks.

dave0520 · October 9, 2006, 04:50 PM

Castnblast, I think it's a duiker.

Hello123 · October 9, 2006, 05:40 PM

rabbit

October 9, 2006, 09:46 AM	#27
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	oops, double tap. Last edited by FirstFreedom; October 9, 2006 at 05:53 PM.

October 9, 2006, 10:23 AM	#28
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	LOL. Isn't everyone's favorite round magical? You'd think so, from the caliber wars over on Hogan's Alley. Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

October 9, 2006, 11:25 AM	#30
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	Oldbill, is that dik-dik antelope? That's a good 9mm choice if I ever saw one... __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

October 9, 2006, 03:10 PM	#31
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	I would regard self defense against an armed assailant in a similar light to stopping a charging cape buffalo.....hit it well and hit with something big enough to turn it or stop it. But thats for another link in another section on the firing line... I would be comfortable with hunting with any reasonably effective round. I would feel better if I was armed with a bazooka in a self defense situation. I guess I am just tired of the tacticalcool guys telling me that the .223 or the 9mm is the best thing since sliced bread for anything that walks. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

October 9, 2006, 04:50 PM	#32
dave0520 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Location: Philadelphia suburbs Posts: 394	Castnblast, I think it's a duiker. __________________ si vis pacem, parabellum

October 9, 2006, 09:44 AM	#26
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	springmom is right on. There IS a discrepancy, but the discrepancy can be explained by two factors, both relating to the difference in the nature of hunting versus self-defense.... 1. First, in a self-defense scenario, the violent aggressor against whom one is justified in taking a shot at, is by definition (in order to be justified), coming directly at you, threatening you with some sort of violence. In this situation, 99% of the time, the threat is presented at close range, in full view. Easier target; easier to hit vital zone; less gun needed. 2. Perhaps even more importantly is the fact that with game, it RUNS when it gets hit, and you have to find it after only one hit (typically). The polar opposite of self-defense. In self-defense, the goal is to stop the attack, so if the target runs off, great; mission accomplished. No need to track and find the violent aggressor, necessarily. And, if the BG keeps coming, he presents himself to you for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or more shots. The more shots you get, the less a big gun is important because of the increased likelihood of a good hit, and cumulative effect of multiple hits. With game, it is critical that you find the animal in the wilderness from the blood trail created from just one hit. Which is very difficult to do potentially. Hence, a bigger gun is a necessity to (ideally) create an exit wound, for a better blood trail. But, having said all that, there is a counterpoint which mikejones's question valid....that is that with a violent aggressor who is potentially about to kill you, a one-shot stop is far more important than a OSS is for a game animal which is not a threat to you. And all things being equal, the bigger the gun, the more likely you will get an OSS (roughly correlated). So, it can be argued both ways...

October 9, 2006, 11:12 AM	#29
Krull Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 14	While you could whack a deer with a 9MM it would be hard,your 7.62X39MM is just wonderful for a med-size deer gun. As far as pistol rounds in a carbine for deer I'd suggest the .357 mag,load a 158 to 180gr bullet with the right make (i.e. softpoint) and your good to go.

October 9, 2006, 05:40 PM	#33
Hello123 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Posts: 571	rabbit