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October 7, 2009, 12:46 PM | #26 | |
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Break in is certainly over rated and over recommended, but it does have it's place. I have an affinity for Les Baer 1911's. They're built extremely tight, to the point of being difficult to rack by hand out of the box. Les recommends shooting them dirty but keeping them lubed for the at least the first 500 rounds (personally I prefer 1000). Doing this does noticeably loosen up the fit. It's worth noting however, that despite being tight and having break in recommended, not one of my Baers had any reliability issues during the break in period. Furthermore, I'm not going to trust a new weapon for carry until it's seen at least 500 rounds, and that 500 rounds is usually shot during the first range session for me, so it's not like I'm even going out of my way to do it.
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October 7, 2009, 12:55 PM | #27 |
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Note on breaking in cars:
I didn't say new cars require a break-in period. I said new motorcycles do. This is definitely mentioned in HD owner's manuals, and by dealers and mechanics.
For cars and trucks, my example was after a head gasket replacement. Or are you restorers all saying you don't worry about breaking those in, either? |
October 7, 2009, 12:56 PM | #28 | |
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October 7, 2009, 12:57 PM | #29 | |
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October 7, 2009, 01:00 PM | #30 |
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That's right! My bad... Motorcycles.... I still drive them like I bought them (old roller bearing bikes with reed valve carbs...) the new ones I thought would have been roller action by now...
Back on topic... I imply don't believe in breaking in a piece. Plus I cannot afford it... |
October 7, 2009, 01:00 PM | #31 |
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The 'break-in period' is that time between buying a new weapon and having used it enough to feel comfortable that it will function perfectly everytime you use it.
Same applies for purchased used weapons, or for weapons that have been repaired or modified. If it takes 1000 rounds of flawless operation for you to trust it implicitly, then that's your break-in period. If you get to 1000 ( an arbitrary number ) and you still have qualms, your break-in period isn't over.
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October 7, 2009, 01:05 PM | #32 | ||
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“High speed isn't about gun, gear or tactics. High speed is executing the basics perfectly no matter what, cold, wet, day, night, tired. That’s high speed." -Paul Howe |
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October 7, 2009, 01:11 PM | #33 |
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I'm all for breaking in handguns, barrels are another story.
I see the "break-in-period" as training. When I break in new weapons I am still hitting the target down range and getting extra training on malfunctions. Like chicken noodle soup, it never hurts to train extra on something so simple like clearing a malfunction. After about (X) amount of rounds you feel comfortable with before putting it in a holster, at least you'll know when the bullets start flying and the adrenaline starts pumping you'll know that weapon well. What if you get into an awkward position and un-intentionally limp-wrist when discharging? Most of you experts probably won't ever un-intentionally limp-wrist, I know. But if you did, you wouldn't have to think to clear the malfunction because you've done it so many times. just my $0.02 - Hiroshi
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October 7, 2009, 01:12 PM | #34 |
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i think its crap. cars do have break in periods. even back in the 80's for the motors and they still do now. but a gun is not a motor. it shouldn't need a break in. Especially if you drop 1000 or more on one. I would be furious.
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October 7, 2009, 01:57 PM | #35 |
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There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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October 7, 2009, 02:19 PM | #36 |
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The last new 1911 that I purchased got sent back to Colt after 52 rounds. That is the number it took for me to realize that it had 4 different "issues" that should not have been there in the first place. Had I shot hundreds of rounds through this particular gun, I would have just made these issues worse.
Colt was nice enough to fix these "issues" (took two months) and this Commander has been 100% since. Tight, accurate, and reliable as it should have been out of the box. I can buy "breaking in" as minor polishing, but as a solution to real "issues", not in my book. If it does not work right out of the box, it was not put together right; or is not being used for it's intended use. 1911s can be tight, and still run 100% when the shooter does their job. (And it may take some rounds to test that shooter and ammo.)
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October 7, 2009, 03:02 PM | #37 | |
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Every brake manufacturer recommends running new rotors through a few heat cycles to break them in before fully exploiting their potential so as to avoid warping. Even the pads need to be "set" to avoid glazing. |
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October 7, 2009, 03:33 PM | #38 |
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Is this a gun forum or auto forum?
I would prefer sticking to real information about pistols. The other stuff as entertaining as it is, is non sequitur to the discussion at hand. Gunk lapping the pistol? Intriguing but how much does powder residue and lube rate on the grit meter? I mean - someone can say it but has anyone - other than it sounds like an idea - actually proved it? I tend not to let firearms get that dirty. Refering to one of my manuals - for the PT709 - it says to "clean your firearm every 200 shots". Did anyone ever think that all this break in is an excuse not to honor a warranty? Plus it seems that after 500 rounds and it still doesn't work right - you have wasted time and ammo getting frustrated - enough to "write off" the company in question. My Sig P229 worked day one. No FTEs, no issues, and in re-reading the manual - no where does it say to "break it in" firing any number of rounds... Even my little pt709 Taurus states nothing of the sort. So? Who has examples of Pistol manuals that state "break in" required and suggest what that looks like? Hmmm..... |
October 7, 2009, 03:39 PM | #39 |
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All I want to know is how does a thermos bottle know whether to keep something hot or cold?
AND.... How does the metal in a gun know when to stop wearing after the breakin period. It would seem to me that any manufacturer who claims that their guns need breaking in if they malfunction right out of the box is saying that any gun that doesn't malfunction was not made to the same glorious high tolerances as the one that did. I loved the sarcastic post about the manufacturer essentially saying they have gone to great pains making the gun pre out of sorts. What they are saying to me is, "We threw this thing together with pretty rough machine work. We only used our best tooling to make it look good. Now we want you to burn up a couple hundred bucks of ammo to burnish these rough spots. It might work and it might not but when you finally send it back it'll be real easy for us to find the spots where it's binding and fix it a lot easier. Thank you very much for your support and understanding in the matter. You've made the right choice" With the degree of accuracy a modern CNC machine is capable of these days it should not be a problem at all for every manufacturer to make an unreliably tight gun. Can you imagine the squealing, wailing and gnashing of teeth if a 400 buck Metro Arms or Armscor gun needed some breaking in? Oh my!! |
October 7, 2009, 05:36 PM | #40 |
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Tired of the automobile talk?
If some of what I read is true, why don't we make a paste of polishing compound, say some jeweler rouge and gun oil, and smear it on the parts which need to be smoothed. Wouldn't an ultra fine polishing compound speed the break in period and save on ammo cost?
I can quickly make a wood carving chisel scary sharp with water stones followed by polishing compounds and buffing wheels; it's all about removing surface "roughness" or imperfections until the edge is polished. The process of sharpening a wood carving chisel is simply bringing the metal to a highly polished condition; is “breaking in” a pistol different? The limitation is the metal itself; a poor grade steel will not take or hold an edge. If I paid low to medium bucks, I’d expect a little break in period; however, if mega bucks had been shelled out, I’d expect the factory/shop to have done all the needed fitting and polishing. If I get that Kahr that’s on my wish list, at the first hiccup, I may just try smearing a little polishing compound around to assist in breaking in the sucker. |
October 7, 2009, 06:42 PM | #41 | |||
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October 7, 2009, 07:21 PM | #42 |
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A break in period does not mean the gun will have problems, it must means the parts need to mate over a period of time. In my opinion, if you are having problems with a semi-auto and the manufacture says it requires a break in period, there is a problem with the gun.
When comparing to a car engine, remember the break in period does not mean the car engine will not work, it just means let the parts mate over a period of time. Direct from my Hummer owner's manual: Starting and Operating Your Vehicle New Vehicle Break-In Notice: Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in. But it will perform better in the long run if you follow these guidelines: • Keep your speed at 55 mph (88 km/h) or less for the first 500 miles (805 km). • Do not drive at any one constant speed, fast or slow, for the first 500 miles (805 km). Do not make full-throttle starts. Avoid downshifting to brake or slow the vehicle. • Avoid making hard stops for the first 200 miles (322 km) or so. During this time the new brake linings are not yet broken in. Hard stops with new linings can mean premature wear and earlier replacement. Follow this breaking-in guideline every time you get new brake linings. • Do not tow a trailer during break-in. See Towing a Trailer on page 4-50 for the trailer towing capabilities of your vehicle and more information. As it states, it will just help it run better. And, in my life, I have found that after 5-6K miles, the fuel mileage increases due to the parts mating better. (Not an engineer so the terms might not be correct.) I might also add that all Corvette engines are run at the engine plant prior to shipping them to Bowling Green. As a long time Corvette owner, and having lived in MI with plenty of GM engineers are neighbors, the Vette was discussed quite a bit on the weekends. Back to the original subject....sorry for the break in of this thread. |
October 7, 2009, 09:16 PM | #43 |
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Personally, I think we've veered way off-subject....
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October 7, 2009, 09:28 PM | #44 |
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I disagree, Magyar
Analogies can be quite valid.
We're talking about metal surfaces mating up, so other mechanical devices do have some bearing. However, just as a car or motorcycle should run during any prescribed break-in period, so should a firearm. |
October 7, 2009, 09:33 PM | #45 |
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Break-in period actually means "please test our guns for us because our manufacturing is marginal and our quality control sucks."
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October 7, 2009, 09:37 PM | #46 | |
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I think the analogy is faulty...
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October 7, 2009, 09:51 PM | #47 |
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What is the advantage of a close to custom firearm that doesn't work out of the box when I could purchase three Springer Loaded models with the same money?
I plan on purchasing a high end 1911 next year and this is the sort of thing that makes me hesitate. I usually purchase three firearms a year. One of these would be all I would allow myself next year. I would be VERY disappointed if I purchased my only firearm of the year and I had to spend $500 in ammo to 'smooth" it out. Beentown
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October 7, 2009, 10:32 PM | #48 |
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This thread is an eye opener... I'm not ever going to buy a new gun now cause I can't afford the dang ammo to break it in...
Yankee Traveler. I did slice the first loaf of bread, but I did it with a karate chop not a knife... It is TRUE that a motor will run smoother with a little wear in it that will open the clearances a tad. But the y don't need to break in. The first time you crank an engine it begins to break down. It never get's better only worse. Like a firearm, they either shoot good from the first round down the barrel, or they need to be repaired.... Later folks koolminx |
October 8, 2009, 08:44 AM | #49 |
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I do not believe a firearm should have to be "broken in", it should run right out of the box. But as with all types of equipment or mechanical devices parts will wear together with use.
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October 8, 2009, 09:38 AM | #50 |
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There are huge differences between cars and guns. Where I do believe that cars need a break-in period, I don't believe that guns (excluding custom target barreled rifles) do.
Cars have many, many more moving parts. They move at higher RPM's and for much longer sustained periods of time. They are made with at least two different cooling systems - oil and water-based, so that the engine gets to an opperating temperature quickly and stays right at that temperature. An 8 cylinder car does more work in just one revoluion, than a 1911 does shooing an entire magazine. A gun is more like a sewing machine - it might opperate a little more reliably (might) after it's been shot 1000 times, but if you don't give it a break-in period, it's not going to seize up on you. |
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