Need a load for lead .44 Mag

cdoc42 · February 11, 2015, 09:10 PM

When Midway sold bulk bullets many years ago I bought 1000 Remington .44 Mag lead .240gr bullets. I worked up a load using data from a Hornady manual: 14.5gr Hercules 2400 -with a cast .44 Mag, not pure lead- book says 1000fps. It was a soft recoil, highly accurate load. But I probably only shot 50 or so. Newer data from Hodgdon's manual gives 20.6gr of 2400 at 1510 fps.

I recall reading back then that loading too hot will lead the barrel.

Anyone have any recipes?

oley55 · February 11, 2015, 10:48 PM

don't have a Hogden book and their on-line manual only lists the Hogden family of powders so nothing for 2400 there.

the Lyman manual for 2400 under a 240 gn Jacketed SP is 18.4 (1028) - 20.5 (1154). for a 240 gn cast bullet it lists 18.5 (1101) - 20.6 (1258).

GeauxTide · February 11, 2015, 11:29 PM

IMO, 2400 is too slow for the 900-1100 loads in the 44 Mag. 9 or 10 grains of Unique or Power Pistol are excellent, arrow straight loads.

oldpapps · February 11, 2015, 11:41 PM

Are these to be 'MAGNUM' loads? Yes, I know that is is the name but it doesn't have to be top end loads. If so, 2400 is very versatile and super hot loads that lead are not a given. Start low and if the bullet size is good, soft lead can and will shoot very well and not slick the barrel with lead. Easy up bit by bit until you find the energy/velocity/recoil that meets your needs and doesn't lead. I would be more interested in accuracy, a big boom is nice but doesn't always hit the target.

Work with what you have and utilize all of the loading data available.

I have been loading my 'wimp' load for the last 40 years using 231 and it only runs 642.9 FPS (average of many, many test samples over the years). No, I get no leading. Yes, I enjoy these loads, as does my granddaughters. The 8 year old thinks they are lots of fun to shoot.

Load with care,

OSOK

**44 AMP** · February 12, 2015, 02:29 AM

Do a thumbnail test on the Remington bullets. Press reasonably hard on the base of the bullet. If your thumbnail (assuming you have one

) leaves a noticeable dent or groove, they are soft, and velocities should be kept below 1000fps or so. If a hard push with your thumbnail only leaves a bright mark, they are "hard" enough for higher velocities.

I use Unique for loads up to the 1100-1200fps range. 2400 for loads above that. 10gr Unique and a 240 bullet should get you about 1100fps from a 6" revolver +/-

Soft slugs can lead at that speed. While I've used a lot of Remington jacketed bullets I don't know their lead ones. If the slugs are swaged, they will be soft. Harder than pure lead, but still to soft for higher velocities. If soft, they would be best at moderate .44 Special speeds, 8-900fps.

HiBC · February 12, 2015, 03:31 AM

My recall of the Rem lead bullets is from maybe the 80's.Not fresh info.I recall them being butter soft,and very prone to leading.I'd load them to 44 spl levels.

Not so with cast wheelweight or commercial hardcast.

I have shot a lot of hard cast 215,240 gr Keith SWC's over heavy Hogdon published loads of H-110.Great performance,accuracy,and no leading.

However:Bullet dia needs to prevent gas blowby.That means,hopefully,your bullet dia is cyl throat dia and .001 over groove dia.(Opinions vary,but that is pretty close to right)

Undersize bullets are prone to leading as hot gas blows past them.

Overdriven soft bullets strip the rifling and lead.

cdoc42 · February 12, 2015, 05:56 AM

Thanks for the replies. The bullets are solid black and the box says "240LD" so I assumed there are slid lead. Using the thumbnail trick, however, reveals I can't put a dent into them, and using a hunting knife leaves a mark slightly deeper than a scratch. The listed diameter is .431".

hartcreek · February 12, 2015, 05:57 AM

So now to answer your next question....what is a 2400 load for .44 Special with a 240 grain lead bullet....11.0-11.7 grains with magnum primers for a maximum 783 FPS as per Speer # 11.

TimSr · February 12, 2015, 08:30 AM

The problem with load data for "lead" bullets is that they never tell you how hard the lead is. When bullet makers like hornady or speer give you "lead" bullet data, it is typically based on their bullets, which are usually cold swaged soft leaf that you can cut a groove with your fingernail in. Powder company data is more towards softer bullets, but usually range a little higher. Then when you open Lyman's manual, its data is based on using bullets cast from the supplies they sell (#2 alloy) which is significantly harder, and their data reflects a lot heavier loads than other sources for "lead" bullets.

Since your bullets are hard cast, even though actual hardness is unknown, you can continue working on up from your low end data. Cast bullets will generate lower pressure than jacketed bullets of the same weight and shape, so if you are not experiencing problems with your work up, you can use jacketed bullet data as your upper level.

Once you start getting cast bullets from a consistant and reliable source, with a known hardness rating, you can start closer in your workup.

With Missouri Bullets 240gr SWC with a BRN of 18, they shoot accurrately, and cleanly over 24gr of 296 in my Redhawk, for example.

Catfish · February 12, 2015, 09:11 AM

I shoot 6 gr. of Bullseye behind a 240 gr. cast bullet. Been so long since I cronoed them, but if memory services me right, vel. of 900 fps from a Ruger Super Black Hawk with Win. L P primers

cdoc42 · February 12, 2015, 04:39 PM

Great and valuable replies. Thanks for sharing the info. I feel comfortable with investigating further.

black mamba · February 12, 2015, 05:54 PM

HP-38 or W231 is what I use for midrange 44 loads. Start with 8 grains and work up to 9 grains in 0.2 grain increments and you will surely find an accurate load that will give between 1000 and 1100 fps.

mulespurs · February 12, 2015, 10:11 PM

Lyman cast bullet handbook will give you answers about lead bullets. It has been my go to book for 40 years.

cdoc42 · February 13, 2015, 12:38 AM

Black Mamba: what weight bullet?

black mamba · February 13, 2015, 05:53 PM

Weight of bullet is the 240s you posted in the first post, but could go up to 265s as well.

GP100man · February 16, 2015, 08:37 AM

You`ll reach a point downloading 2400 that`ll leave little yellow kernels , these are incompletely burned powder kernels.

If the load works & ya deal with the kernels (they`ll play havoc under the ejector) go fer it.

BUT if ya run em over a chrony you`ll see why .

For down loading the 44 with the ole 429421 I run 8gr of cornflakes(HERCO) it doesn't go thru measures good at all so I dip & throw it in the funnel on top the lee expander die.

I can get it thru my lee autodisc ifin I add 1/2 teaspoon of powdered graphite/per pound & sit the tumbler on the bench while flaring/charging.

This load is clean & accurate.

2400 in the 44 ,I think I`ve never dropped below 18.5 gr.

GP

sawdustdad · February 16, 2015, 11:28 AM

I load 5.6g. Red Dot or 5g 700x behind a 200g lead bullet in .44mag for plinking. Fun to shoot.

I never downloaded 2400, but 4227 can be loaded down to I think 13g for a mid power (.44spl) load. I've run it between 13g and 20g with 240g plated bullets. Need to check the load manuals, of course.

February 11, 2015, 09:10 PM	#1
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Need a load for lead .44 Mag When Midway sold bulk bullets many years ago I bought 1000 Remington .44 Mag lead .240gr bullets. I worked up a load using data from a Hornady manual: 14.5gr Hercules 2400 -with a cast .44 Mag, not pure lead- book says 1000fps. It was a soft recoil, highly accurate load. But I probably only shot 50 or so. Newer data from Hodgdon's manual gives 20.6gr of 2400 at 1510 fps. I recall reading back then that loading too hot will lead the barrel. Anyone have any recipes?

February 12, 2015, 02:29 AM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,811	Do a thumbnail test on the Remington bullets. Press reasonably hard on the base of the bullet. If your thumbnail (assuming you have one) leaves a noticeable dent or groove, they are soft, and velocities should be kept below 1000fps or so. If a hard push with your thumbnail only leaves a bright mark, they are "hard" enough for higher velocities. I use Unique for loads up to the 1100-1200fps range. 2400 for loads above that. 10gr Unique and a 240 bullet should get you about 1100fps from a 6" revolver +/- Soft slugs can lead at that speed. While I've used a lot of Remington jacketed bullets I don't know their lead ones. If the slugs are swaged, they will be soft. Harder than pure lead, but still to soft for higher velocities. If soft, they would be best at moderate .44 Special speeds, 8-900fps. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 12, 2015, 10:11 PM	#13
mulespurs Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 115	try This Lyman cast bullet handbook will give you answers about lead bullets. It has been my go to book for 40 years.

February 16, 2015, 08:37 AM	#16
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	You`ll reach a point downloading 2400 that`ll leave little yellow kernels , these are incompletely burned powder kernels. If the load works & ya deal with the kernels (they`ll play havoc under the ejector) go fer it. BUT if ya run em over a chrony you`ll see why . For down loading the 44 with the ole 429421 I run 8gr of cornflakes(HERCO) it doesn't go thru measures good at all so I dip & throw it in the funnel on top the lee expander die. I can get it thru my lee autodisc ifin I add 1/2 teaspoon of powdered graphite/per pound & sit the tumbler on the bench while flaring/charging. This load is clean & accurate. 2400 in the 44 ,I think I`ve never dropped below 18.5 gr. GP __________________ GP100man

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February 11, 2015, 10:48 PM	#2
oley55 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2013 Location: JAX, FL Posts: 377	don't have a Hogden book and their on-line manual only lists the Hogden family of powders so nothing for 2400 there. the Lyman manual for 2400 under a 240 gn Jacketed SP is 18.4 (1028) - 20.5 (1154). for a 240 gn cast bullet it lists 18.5 (1101) - 20.6 (1258).

February 11, 2015, 11:29 PM	#3
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	IMO, 2400 is too slow for the 900-1100 loads in the 44 Mag. 9 or 10 grains of Unique or Power Pistol are excellent, arrow straight loads.

February 11, 2015, 11:41 PM	#4
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	Are these to be 'MAGNUM' loads? Yes, I know that is is the name but it doesn't have to be top end loads. If so, 2400 is very versatile and super hot loads that lead are not a given. Start low and if the bullet size is good, soft lead can and will shoot very well and not slick the barrel with lead. Easy up bit by bit until you find the energy/velocity/recoil that meets your needs and doesn't lead. I would be more interested in accuracy, a big boom is nice but doesn't always hit the target. Work with what you have and utilize all of the loading data available. I have been loading my 'wimp' load for the last 40 years using 231 and it only runs 642.9 FPS (average of many, many test samples over the years). No, I get no leading. Yes, I enjoy these loads, as does my granddaughters. The 8 year old thinks they are lots of fun to shoot. Load with care, OSOK

February 12, 2015, 03:31 AM	#6
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	My recall of the Rem lead bullets is from maybe the 80's.Not fresh info.I recall them being butter soft,and very prone to leading.I'd load them to 44 spl levels. Not so with cast wheelweight or commercial hardcast. I have shot a lot of hard cast 215,240 gr Keith SWC's over heavy Hogdon published loads of H-110.Great performance,accuracy,and no leading. However:Bullet dia needs to prevent gas blowby.That means,hopefully,your bullet dia is cyl throat dia and .001 over groove dia.(Opinions vary,but that is pretty close to right) Undersize bullets are prone to leading as hot gas blows past them. Overdriven soft bullets strip the rifling and lead.

February 12, 2015, 05:56 AM	#7
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Thanks for the replies. The bullets are solid black and the box says "240LD" so I assumed there are slid lead. Using the thumbnail trick, however, reveals I can't put a dent into them, and using a hunting knife leaves a mark slightly deeper than a scratch. The listed diameter is .431".

February 12, 2015, 05:57 AM	#8
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	So now to answer your next question....what is a 2400 load for .44 Special with a 240 grain lead bullet....11.0-11.7 grains with magnum primers for a maximum 783 FPS as per Speer # 11.

February 12, 2015, 08:30 AM	#9
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	The problem with load data for "lead" bullets is that they never tell you how hard the lead is. When bullet makers like hornady or speer give you "lead" bullet data, it is typically based on their bullets, which are usually cold swaged soft leaf that you can cut a groove with your fingernail in. Powder company data is more towards softer bullets, but usually range a little higher. Then when you open Lyman's manual, its data is based on using bullets cast from the supplies they sell (#2 alloy) which is significantly harder, and their data reflects a lot heavier loads than other sources for "lead" bullets. Since your bullets are hard cast, even though actual hardness is unknown, you can continue working on up from your low end data. Cast bullets will generate lower pressure than jacketed bullets of the same weight and shape, so if you are not experiencing problems with your work up, you can use jacketed bullet data as your upper level. Once you start getting cast bullets from a consistant and reliable source, with a known hardness rating, you can start closer in your workup. With Missouri Bullets 240gr SWC with a BRN of 18, they shoot accurrately, and cleanly over 24gr of 296 in my Redhawk, for example.

February 12, 2015, 09:11 AM	#10
Catfish Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 171	I shoot 6 gr. of Bullseye behind a 240 gr. cast bullet. Been so long since I cronoed them, but if memory services me right, vel. of 900 fps from a Ruger Super Black Hawk with Win. L P primers

February 12, 2015, 04:39 PM	#11
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Great and valuable replies. Thanks for sharing the info. I feel comfortable with investigating further.

February 12, 2015, 05:54 PM	#12
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	HP-38 or W231 is what I use for midrange 44 loads. Start with 8 grains and work up to 9 grains in 0.2 grain increments and you will surely find an accurate load that will give between 1000 and 1100 fps.

February 13, 2015, 12:38 AM	#14
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Black Mamba: what weight bullet?

February 13, 2015, 05:53 PM	#15
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	Weight of bullet is the 240s you posted in the first post, but could go up to 265s as well.

February 16, 2015, 11:28 AM	#17
sawdustdad Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2014 Location: Virginia Posts: 484	I load 5.6g. Red Dot or 5g 700x behind a 200g lead bullet in .44mag for plinking. Fun to shoot. I never downloaded 2400, but 4227 can be loaded down to I think 13g for a mid power (.44spl) load. I've run it between 13g and 20g with 240g plated bullets. Need to check the load manuals, of course.