Good Carry FMJ?

[ZentetsukenVII]

I currently carry my .45 with hornady zombie max (it's the only HP I could find atm). I carry a spare magazine with FMJ as well. I figured if I have to reload, I will most likely be getting shot back at and I want the extra punch of an FMJ. I am carrying Armscore Brass cased FMJ RN 230 grain.

I bought a box of federal fmj and the copper and brass is oddly colored, there is some minor corrosion marks, the jacket on the slugs are oddly shaped. They just don't seem very high quality to me.

I am just wondering if any readily available FMJ would be higher quality than these in regards to accuracy, reliability etc. If what I am carrying will work fine then good, just want to get your opinions. (I'm not over thinking this am I? I just really want to prepared).

Thanks guys.

[TunnelRat]

I figured if I have to reload, I will most likely be getting shot back at and I want the extra punch of an FMJ.

I've seen this logic before, frankly I don't agree. FMJ is great at putting holes in barriers, that's not to say it has much more "punch" as opposed to hollowpoints. Think of the fact that police officers carry hollowpoints and they are constantly in and around barriers in the form of vehicles. To me a JHP will still get decent pentration in most barrier types. If the guy you're shooting at just took cover behind something that you need FMJ to penetrate, my advice is use the time to shoot your way to an exit. I have nothing against the "be prepared" mantra, but sometimes folks are imagining these pitched gun battles that seem a tad unrealistic to me.

But still I realize that's not your question. If I had to carry FMJ I would look for Speer Lawman or Fiocchi, which are stout FMJ loads (in my experience).

Edit: Keep in mind that the quality control and power factors will be higher on the defensive ammo that you buy as opposed to standard FMJ ammo that is typically used for the range. If you have a hard primer on the range, oh well. When defending your life, it could be the end of you.

[ZentetsukenVII]

Thanks for the reply. I would carry all FMJ if I could find them. I've been looking for some Speer Gold dot, or federal HST for ages with no luck.

[TunnelRat]

Thanks for the reply. I would carry all FMJ if I could find them. I've been looking for some Speer Gold dot, or federal HST for ages with no luck.

Oh I didn't you realize you didn't have enough JHPs for both mags, my bad.

In that case my previous recommendations stand.

[ClydeFrog]

I think you have a smart plan.
When I had my M&P full size 9mm I had Golden Saber 124gr bonded JHP +P in the semi auto & Winchester 9mmNATO 124gr FMJ in the mag holder.
Now in 9x19mm, I'd buy Buffalo Bore's powerful +P+ 124 Penetrator load, the Ranger T 124gr FMJ, the Corbon PowRball 9mm.

Buffalo Bore's owner/CEO says he uses the 124gr Penetrator in his own 9mm spare mags.

[bamaranger]

Federal has a pretty high reputation as a quality ammo company. I would not worry to much about any of their ammo being sub standard.

And...while JHP is nearly universally touted as the end all for carry ammo and the darling of the ballistic gel studies, ".45 acp ball" has a good reputation as a fighting cartridge. It is not a death ray, but I would not feel inadequately armed with a magazine of .45 acp ball in my pistol. And in the subsequent evil civil action after a shoot, you can not be vilified with accusations of using HP or exotic killer bullets.

My favorite factory FMJ as a carry load is/was the Hornady 230 gr truncated "Flat Point". I cannot say if that load is still available but a quick check could yield same. I have a supply that often goes in my .45's.

[IdahoG36]

I would never carry fmj for personal defense. There is way to much of a risk of over penetration, and they will hammer you in court if you injure or kill an innocent bystander.

Load up with any modern jhp ammunition and you are good to go. They stay in the target and deliver more energy than a fmj bullet will.

The .45 fmj has a good track record in military use, but on a battlefield, you are not concerned about over penetration. On the streets of America, you should be very concerned about it.

You could be 100% in the right in firing your weapon at somebody posing a threat, and have the fmj bullet you fired go through and kill a bystander. Now instead of going home, you are off to prison for a very long time.

[ClydeFrog]

I don't want to give the wrong impression.
The FMJ & milspec rounds I suggested are for spare magazines.
I agree that the main pistol mag should have factory made well designed JHPs or defense loads.
Spare magazines will be used if your main rounds do not stop the threat.

As noted, if you perform a reload, your attacker or shooter may be behind a barrier or cover.
You also need a 100% feeding/cycle with spare magazines. A jam or misfire could cause problems.
A court jury or panel can understand your actions if you explain your reasons for them.
Most jurors in court trials are not gun or tactics experts. But they can agree with you if you are fighting for your life or are in serious danger.

I'd add that a Youtuber did a great review of the EFMJ Federal Guard Dog in 9mm. He gave it a - review. He shot several forms of media(wood paper plastic glass etc). The results were worth viewing.

[Water-Man]

ASYM ammunition. 230gr. FMJ. I carry it in my 1911.

[HiBC]

I have no gunfight experience,so,no advise.
You might look at Magtech's FMJ's.No real experience with those,but the are a FMJ shaped as a SWC,flat meplat and full dia wadcutting shoulder.

My thought is it would produce more crushing/tearing in the wound channel than a round nose.

Magtechs ammo quality is an unknown to me

[CDW4ME]

Here is plenty of 45 acp hollow point ammo in stock :

http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/45-AC...ion-s/1837.htm

Problem solved.

[481]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat:

I've seen this logic before, frankly I don't agree. FMJ is great at putting holes in barriers, that's not to say it has much more "punch" as opposed to hollowpoints. Think of the fact that police officers carry hollowpoints and they are constantly in and around barriers in the form of vehicles. To me a JHP will still get decent pentration in most barrier types. If the guy you're shooting at just took cover behind something that you need FMJ to penetrate, my advice is use the time to shoot your way to an exit. I have nothing against the "be prepared" mantra, but sometimes folks are imagining these pitched gun battles that seem a tad unrealistic to me.

Good point. Some folks seem to believe that with handgun rounds, FMJs will punch through hard, thin barriers like sheet steel better than JHPs when in fact both will do so- up to a point. On really thick, hard barriers both JHPs and FMJs will just splatter on the barrier's surface.

Getting through hard, thin barriers like automotive sheet steel is dependent upon cross-sectional area and kinetic energy at impact. JHPs tend to act like FMJs through such barriers as the walls of the hollow-point collapses inwards upon itself at impact turning the JHP, in effect, into an FMJ. Neither is stronger nor harder than the other as both are made from the same materials (lead-antimony core, copper-zinc alloy jacket)- might as well make that second (and third magazine) JHPs.

[Double Impact]

I would not worry about over penetration with a 45 fmj 230 gr. or a jhp.
What I would worry about in a self defense shoot is MISSES.

Hell in some states I believe in eastern united states FMJ is all that is allowed for edc. It works fine in 45 acp. And the federal stuff has went down range out of my 45's by the thousands and have all been fine.

This big debate over FMJ and JHP is way over done.
Do some research on LE and civilian shootings you'll be surprised of the facts on the subject compared to what you here on forums.
I've been a shooter and involved in different aspects of LE for 30+ yrs trust me you should research the facts.

keep shooting and have fun.

[TunnelRat]

This big debate over FMJ and JHP is way over done.
Do some research on LE and civilian shootings you'll be surprised of the facts on the subject compared to what you here on forums.
I've been a shooter and involved in different aspects of LE for 30+ yrs trust me you should research the facts.

Then please enlighten us.

[ZentetsukenVII]

Well I feel like I may have opened a can-o-worms on my second post. Great way to start off at the new forum! lol

[ClydeFrog]

I was mistaken, I thought you wanted 9mm not .45acp FMJs.
The gun writer & tactics trainer "Chuck Taylor" stated he used the 230gr FMJ in a 1911a1 for years. He encouraged others to tote the milspec 230gr FMJ in .45acp.
Keep in mind that the standard GI ball type rounds are s l o w 800/900 fps.
As posted, you can find decent factory made JHPs online in .45acp.
SGammo.com MidwayUSA.com Luckygunner.com Natchezss.com Brownells.com Ables Ammo Cabelas.

[manta49]

FMJ Will do the job fine as for over penetration I hear it all the time but don't see many examples.

[Hansam]

FMJ Will do the job fine as for over penetration I hear it all the time but don't see many examples.

How many times have you personally been in a gun fight to be able to say that?

Personally I like JHP over FMJ because of the additional wounding capability of the JHP. If your life depends on it I'd rather have something that will enter with a .38, .40 or .45 caliber hole but expand out to as much as twice its diameter inside the body for MAXIMUM EFFECT of the bullet. No I've never been in a gun fight but if I were to ever have to shoot defensively for my family or myself I want the ammo I shoot to be adding as much to the equation as possible.

I've been looking for some Speer Gold dot, or federal HST for ages with no luck.

You haven't been looking very hard. Go to Cabela's (there's one just to the north of you), they have a large supply of Federal HST and other ammo.

Hornady Zombie Max is basically Hornady Critical Defense but packaged with a green tip. Its a good defensive cartridge and many people carry it. I'm partial to Federal HSTs and that is what I carry now.

[manta49]

How many times have you personally been in a gun fight to be able to say that?

I thought the 1911 .45 FMJ round was famous for getting the job done in two world wars and other conflicts. Just shows what would I know.

[IdahoG36]

Nobody is debating the effectiveness of the .45 fmj round. It has a great track record in battle.
But, it also notorious for over penetration, and I personally think that knowing that, it is not an intelligent choice for a defensive load. With so many excellent jhp loadings out there, why would you even consider fmj as a defensive load? That just baffles me.

[manta49]

Nobody is debating the effectiveness of the .45 fmj round. It has a great track record in battle.
But, it also notorious for over penetration,

As I said in my earlier reply I hear this all the time when FMJ and calibers are being discussed. But I don't see any examples to back it up. I would think you be more likely to hit an unintended target with the rounds you miss with than shoot troughs. I am sure it has happen but I don't think it is a big issue that some seem to think.

[ClydeFrog]

Id add that in 2013, many people in the industrialized world are "thicker" & "larger" .
Author & sworn LE officer; Massad Ayoob made the same point a few years ago.
A armed citizen who shoots a 250lb 6'02" male with a GI type 230gr ball round isn't the same as a soldier who shoots a 5'04" 110lb enemy combatant.
FMJ rounds are not ideal but as many gun forum members & ballistics researchers have noted, "over-pentration" is not as common as you may think.

[Seaman]

"But I don't see any examples to back it up. " [manta49]

Exactly. Neither have I.

However thru my own extensive testing thru various media the 230gr 45ACP fmj rn bullet is way out-penetrated by the 123gr fmj rn 9x19mm para and even moreso by the 85gr fmj rn 7.62x25mm Tokarev.

I would be more concerned about hitting the perp than having that large slow 230gr slug pass thru one assailant and then strike/harm another.

Please show me a verifiable example where this has occurred.

Thanks in advance.

[Gaerek]

This big debate over FMJ and JHP is way over done.
Do some research on LE and civilian shootings you'll be surprised of the facts on the subject compared to what you here on forums.
I've been a shooter and involved in different aspects of LE for 30+ yrs trust me you should research the facts.

It's awesome when someone posts some "fact" that pretty much contradicts modern best practices when it comes to which ammo you should use for self defense, then provides absolutely no backing to their claim. Please tell us who you are, what your credentials are, or at the very least, what support you have for your claim.

Please tell me why it doesn't matter whether I load JHP or FMJ in my defensive handgun when practically every instructor, at least in the US, says that a quality JHP round is the BEST round for SD, and that FMJ rounds shouldn't be used unless there's no other option for some reason.

Speaking a fact on the Internet without citing a source does absolutely no good. You stating that the argument is "way overdone" does nothing to help. Backing up that claim with EVIDENCE (you are in LE, right? you know what evidence is, right?) will allow information to be passed along. Trust me, if I'm loading the wrong round in my gun, I'd really like to know it, and know why.

[Southside830]

Ammunition depot has a nice variety of hollow points for a fair price. Check em out.