Uberti 1858 Navy vs Army frame size.

Nickel Plated · March 7, 2014, 03:11 PM

From what I read, the 1858 new Model Navy in .36 was actually built on a slightly smaller frame than the .44 New Model Army.

I know when looking on sites that sell parts for the guns. They don't have a separate listing for Navy and Army parts. They're all lumped together with just the barrel, cylinder and loading rod seemingly the only differences. So that kinda implies the Navys aren't properly sized. But then Uberti does tend to stick to the real specs more closely than some other makers.

Anyone know if the Uberti Navys replicate this difference? Or is their Navy just an Army frame with a .36cal barrel and cylinder?

duelist1954 · March 7, 2014, 03:25 PM

To my knowledge all the modern Remingtons, whether they are chambered in .36 or .44, are built on the .44 frame.

That is one reason I like the Spiller & Burr replica. It is on a proper .36 sized frame

Nickel Plated · March 7, 2014, 04:23 PM

Did a bit more readng after posting this and it seems that some of the early replicas in the 70's did use the correct smaller frames for the navys. But then switched over to .44 Army frames all around. I assume to save on manufacturing costs.

Interesting about the Spiller & Burr. Shame it's a brass frame though. I intend to buy the Remington to use as a donor for a .38 SP gated conversion. Would actually be very similar to your Ultimate Remington build. but in .38 and with a gate.

dr1445 · March 7, 2014, 04:32 PM

i just got a 1970 remington lyman/uberti 36, that has a warped grip. i tried to fit the grip from my 2008 36 pietta and for sure the pietta is bigger than the 1970 uberti.

Nickel Plated · March 7, 2014, 05:18 PM

I think the Piettas are just overall bigger than the Ubertis and real Remingtons in general. They make their 1858s with an "oversize" frame" as they call it. IDK why.

BTW, Mike I enjoy your YouTube videos and just noticed you're in Central PA. Mind sharing what range you shoot at? I go out to PA to shoot since there's really no good ranges anywhere near NYC. And usually go to Wicen's Shooting Range in Furlong. Seems even in PA it's tough to find a relaxed range where they'll let you shoot steel and bottles.

Hawg · March 7, 2014, 07:26 PM

Quote:

i just got a 1970 remington lyman/uberti 36, that has a warped grip. i tried to fit the grip from my 2008 36 pietta and for sure the pietta is bigger than the 1970 uberti.

Uberti and Pietta both do the final fitting with the grips on the frame. So even if you had two consecutive numbered Uberti's the grips would not interchange.

Nickel Plated · March 7, 2014, 08:46 PM

Guess that explains why Dixie and other parts sellers sell spare grips as completely unfinished rough hunks of wood.

Kappe · March 7, 2014, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Interesting about the Spiller & Burr. Shame it's a brass frame though.

You'd think that Pietta would produce a replica of the original Whitney Navy revolver, considering it was far more numerous than the Confederate copy and had a steel frame.

I'd certainly consider one if they did, as a compliment to my Colt Navy.

Hellgate · March 7, 2014, 10:37 PM

The Armi San Poalo/Euroarms Remingtons also have the 44s and 36s on the same frame but the frame is smaller than both the Uberti and certainly the Pietta. So the Euroarms 36s compared to the Piettas are a lot smaller and lighter.

mec · March 8, 2014, 09:59 AM

The Euroarms /armi San p... like the original is a smaller frame than the armies. though the Uberti is interesting as it will hold a great deal of powder and achieve impressive velocities.

original remington NMN
load Uberti Navy...vel.spread...energy.
28gr. SWISS FFFg 1238 59 272
28gr./vol. Pyrodex P 1181 74 247
28gr./vol. H777 1188 49 251
125gr. Buffalo Bullet
22gr. SWISS FFFg 978 62 265

some company once did make a copy of the Beals revolver. I saw one at a gunshow last week. It looked very neat though functional quality was not always there in previous decades.

bedbugbilly · March 9, 2014, 04:26 PM

I can remember smaller framed Remmie Navies but it's been years (I think) since anyone has made em. I have one of the current Piettas that is on the Amry frame size - it's nice but I'd love to have one on a more original frame size. There's not a whole lot of "felt recoil" on the one that I have and it a good shooter so I can live with it.

NickwlPlated - even thought he S & B is brass framed, it still is a nice revolver. From your remarks, I'm assuming that you're talking about the brass frame in regards to a conversion? Mike, as usual, did a very nice job on the video on the S & B - it looks like a "fun gun" and is on my "to buy" list but for just shooting C & B.

Just a remark and not challenging anyone . . . the design of the S & B, even with brass frame, to my way of thinking makes it an excellent "repro" as far as shooting. I've had a lot of different C & B over the years - only several with brass frames. The thing that irks me sometimes is the remarks that brass frames "don't hold up". While that may be true in regards to longevity and number of rounds shot - the main factor is in the loads being used. I don't know why some folks insist on shooting heavy loads and then wonder why brass frames don't hold up. It makes about as much sense as someone loading 38 spl to 357 mag specs and wondering why their revolver doesn't hold up (if the cylinder doesn't explode) . . you need to "load for the design".

I have never dabbled in black powder cartridge loading . .. yet.

But I'm getting the bug to try it. I think an original style Remington Navy frame with a 38 conversion would be a pretty nifty pistol. As much as I like '51 Colts, and conversions are made in that model, I'd still would like to have an original frame size Remmie Navy with the top strap frame.

swathdiver · March 10, 2014, 02:45 AM

Uberti Remmy's have many parts that interchange with the originals, such as the cylinders. In 2007-ish, they redesigned the guns with a tighter twist, forged frames and more accurate sizing to the originals but the cylinders are still the same.

A 1980s vintage Pietta has a smaller grip than a current Pietta Remington.

March 7, 2014, 03:11 PM	#1
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Uberti 1858 Navy vs Army frame size. From what I read, the 1858 new Model Navy in .36 was actually built on a slightly smaller frame than the .44 New Model Army. I know when looking on sites that sell parts for the guns. They don't have a separate listing for Navy and Army parts. They're all lumped together with just the barrel, cylinder and loading rod seemingly the only differences. So that kinda implies the Navys aren't properly sized. But then Uberti does tend to stick to the real specs more closely than some other makers. Anyone know if the Uberti Navys replicate this difference? Or is their Navy just an Army frame with a .36cal barrel and cylinder?

March 7, 2014, 10:37 PM	#9
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	The Armi San Poalo/Euroarms Remingtons also have the 44s and 36s on the same frame but the frame is smaller than both the Uberti and certainly the Pietta. So the Euroarms 36s compared to the Piettas are a lot smaller and lighter. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

March 9, 2014, 04:26 PM	#11
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I can remember smaller framed Remmie Navies but it's been years (I think) since anyone has made em. I have one of the current Piettas that is on the Amry frame size - it's nice but I'd love to have one on a more original frame size. There's not a whole lot of "felt recoil" on the one that I have and it a good shooter so I can live with it. NickwlPlated - even thought he S & B is brass framed, it still is a nice revolver. From your remarks, I'm assuming that you're talking about the brass frame in regards to a conversion? Mike, as usual, did a very nice job on the video on the S & B - it looks like a "fun gun" and is on my "to buy" list but for just shooting C & B. Just a remark and not challenging anyone . . . the design of the S & B, even with brass frame, to my way of thinking makes it an excellent "repro" as far as shooting. I've had a lot of different C & B over the years - only several with brass frames. The thing that irks me sometimes is the remarks that brass frames "don't hold up". While that may be true in regards to longevity and number of rounds shot - the main factor is in the loads being used. I don't know why some folks insist on shooting heavy loads and then wonder why brass frames don't hold up. It makes about as much sense as someone loading 38 spl to 357 mag specs and wondering why their revolver doesn't hold up (if the cylinder doesn't explode) . . you need to "load for the design". I have never dabbled in black powder cartridge loading . .. yet. But I'm getting the bug to try it. I think an original style Remington Navy frame with a 38 conversion would be a pretty nifty pistol. As much as I like '51 Colts, and conversions are made in that model, I'd still would like to have an original frame size Remmie Navy with the top strap frame. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

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March 7, 2014, 03:25 PM	#2
duelist1954 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2011 Location: Central Pennsylvania Posts: 567	To my knowledge all the modern Remingtons, whether they are chambered in .36 or .44, are built on the .44 frame. That is one reason I like the Spiller & Burr replica. It is on a proper .36 sized frame

March 7, 2014, 04:23 PM	#3
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Did a bit more readng after posting this and it seems that some of the early replicas in the 70's did use the correct smaller frames for the navys. But then switched over to .44 Army frames all around. I assume to save on manufacturing costs. Interesting about the Spiller & Burr. Shame it's a brass frame though. I intend to buy the Remington to use as a donor for a .38 SP gated conversion. Would actually be very similar to your Ultimate Remington build. but in .38 and with a gate.

March 7, 2014, 04:32 PM	#4
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	i just got a 1970 remington lyman/uberti 36, that has a warped grip. i tried to fit the grip from my 2008 36 pietta and for sure the pietta is bigger than the 1970 uberti.

March 7, 2014, 05:18 PM	#5
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	I think the Piettas are just overall bigger than the Ubertis and real Remingtons in general. They make their 1858s with an "oversize" frame" as they call it. IDK why. BTW, Mike I enjoy your YouTube videos and just noticed you're in Central PA. Mind sharing what range you shoot at? I go out to PA to shoot since there's really no good ranges anywhere near NYC. And usually go to Wicen's Shooting Range in Furlong. Seems even in PA it's tough to find a relaxed range where they'll let you shoot steel and bottles.

March 7, 2014, 08:46 PM	#7
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Guess that explains why Dixie and other parts sellers sell spare grips as completely unfinished rough hunks of wood.

March 10, 2014, 02:45 AM	#12
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Uberti Remmy's have many parts that interchange with the originals, such as the cylinders. In 2007-ish, they redesigned the guns with a tighter twist, forged frames and more accurate sizing to the originals but the cylinders are still the same. A 1980s vintage Pietta has a smaller grip than a current Pietta Remington.