The role of the knife in personal defense?

Dave3006 · September 26, 2000, 03:04 PM

I have a background in karate, Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I have a reasonable game plan for the various stages of a fight from standing to finishing on the ground.

My question is, what role does a knife play in your personal defense plan? When would you deploy it? I do carry a knife. However, I need to clarify in advance what it's role is. For example:

1. I would not deploy it in a situation where the other guy did not have a weapon. The legal aftermath would be overwhelming.

2 If I were facing multiple attackers, I probably would not deploying the knife. It could mean it would be used on me later if they take it.

3. If someone wanted to attack me with a knife, I would probably not see it until it was too late.

4. The only time it would seem to make sense is if I happened to be the unlucky guy sitting in McDonalds when the next crazed gunman comes through the door. The threat would be deadly. The knife would be justified. If it was a handgun, the 20' rule would apply. I could actually have a chance.
Of course, to say this is remote is an understatement.

When would you use your knife???

Coronach · September 26, 2000, 10:25 PM

Handgun retention. A knife is deadly force, and I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to carry a gun (Ohio...*sigh*), so I'd opt for that first if a deadly-force situation arose...but if some guy is wrestling over my gun and I have a free hand he sure as heck is gonna get cut.

Most lawful folks who carry knives as weapons I imagine are in non CCW areas...and a few inches of cold steel is a heck of a lot better than harsh language.

Mike

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

Scott Evans · September 27, 2000, 12:19 PM

I see the knife as an aid in firearm retention or as a space maker should the situation be one that the aggressor is too close for me to effectively draw and fire the firearm. Last would be a close quarters threat that did not allow a shot via the proximity of non aggressors too near or behind the target. I wear the blade on the Off side (my left) and draw it and use it with the off side hand. It is carried most times in an IWB Kydex sheath. I draw it using a reverse grip. This allows for a variety of immediate strikes inline with the draw stroke (very fast economy of motion with lots of power).

The Knife for me is never a substitute for the firearm but rather an additional tool in a system of preparation.

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“This is my rifle, there many like it but this one is mine …”

tuc22 · September 27, 2000, 01:48 PM

A knife is a defensive weapon when it provides a means of escape. When cornered, when held to the ground, when overwhelming odds are against you, or when multiple attackers leave you no avenue of escape. This is where I, as a member of a jury, see that your method or means of self defense is justified. If you use it to cut the hand that is trying to wrest away your handgun, I have to consider that as "reasonable", just as if you stabbed a person in the back who was in the act of harming an innocent life. These are all righteous and honorable defenses.

tprT · September 29, 2000, 08:46 AM

Dave,
Don't say you "would never use it against an unarmed attacker." You are setting yourself up for defeat. A couple of for instances:
- you are being choked to death and know that you have no other choice

- you have just had your head bounced of the concrete a few times and believe this person is trying to (is) causing serious injury or death

There are many reasons this would occur. An unarmed attacker can make you just as dead as an armed attacker. You must believe that you had no other choice but to use deadly physical force in order to stop someone from killing you or causing serious physical injury to you. All states have different laws concerning use of deadly physical force so look into your own. But you may have no other options...
Tony Blauer asks..."can you shoot somebody for doing a lapel grab?" Most people will say no, and under most circumstances the answer is no. But there are circumstances where it may be appropriate...don't sell yourself short. Train for any scenario. It's all about mindset. Your opponent determines the outcome....

T

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If not you, then who?

Dave3006 · September 29, 2000, 02:33 PM

The last two replies make good sense. Anything can happen. It would be smart not to mentally limit yourself ahead of time.

Thanks.

September 26, 2000, 03:04 PM	#1
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	I have a background in karate, Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I have a reasonable game plan for the various stages of a fight from standing to finishing on the ground. My question is, what role does a knife play in your personal defense plan? When would you deploy it? I do carry a knife. However, I need to clarify in advance what it's role is. For example: 1. I would not deploy it in a situation where the other guy did not have a weapon. The legal aftermath would be overwhelming. 2 If I were facing multiple attackers, I probably would not deploying the knife. It could mean it would be used on me later if they take it. 3. If someone wanted to attack me with a knife, I would probably not see it until it was too late. 4. The only time it would seem to make sense is if I happened to be the unlucky guy sitting in McDonalds when the next crazed gunman comes through the door. The threat would be deadly. The knife would be justified. If it was a handgun, the 20' rule would apply. I could actually have a chance. Of course, to say this is remote is an understatement. When would you use your knife???

September 26, 2000, 10:25 PM	#2
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Handgun retention. A knife is deadly force, and I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to carry a gun (Ohio...sigh), so I'd opt for that first if a deadly-force situation arose...but if some guy is wrestling over my gun and I have a free hand he sure as heck is gonna get cut. Most lawful folks who carry knives as weapons I imagine are in non CCW areas...and a few inches of cold steel is a heck of a lot better than harsh language. Mike ------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

September 27, 2000, 12:19 PM	#3
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	I see the knife as an aid in firearm retention or as a space maker should the situation be one that the aggressor is too close for me to effectively draw and fire the firearm. Last would be a close quarters threat that did not allow a shot via the proximity of non aggressors too near or behind the target. I wear the blade on the Off side (my left) and draw it and use it with the off side hand. It is carried most times in an IWB Kydex sheath. I draw it using a reverse grip. This allows for a variety of immediate strikes inline with the draw stroke (very fast economy of motion with lots of power). The Knife for me is never a substitute for the firearm but rather an additional tool in a system of preparation. ------------------ “This is my rifle, there many like it but this one is mine …”

September 27, 2000, 01:48 PM	#4
tuc22 Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Posts: 367	A knife is a defensive weapon when it provides a means of escape. When cornered, when held to the ground, when overwhelming odds are against you, or when multiple attackers leave you no avenue of escape. This is where I, as a member of a jury, see that your method or means of self defense is justified. If you use it to cut the hand that is trying to wrest away your handgun, I have to consider that as "reasonable", just as if you stabbed a person in the back who was in the act of harming an innocent life. These are all righteous and honorable defenses.

September 29, 2000, 08:46 AM	#5
tprT Member Join Date: September 24, 2000 Posts: 36	Dave, Don't say you "would never use it against an unarmed attacker." You are setting yourself up for defeat. A couple of for instances: - you are being choked to death and know that you have no other choice - you have just had your head bounced of the concrete a few times and believe this person is trying to (is) causing serious injury or death There are many reasons this would occur. An unarmed attacker can make you just as dead as an armed attacker. You must believe that you had no other choice but to use deadly physical force in order to stop someone from killing you or causing serious physical injury to you. All states have different laws concerning use of deadly physical force so look into your own. But you may have no other options... Tony Blauer asks..."can you shoot somebody for doing a lapel grab?" Most people will say no, and under most circumstances the answer is no. But there are circumstances where it may be appropriate...don't sell yourself short. Train for any scenario. It's all about mindset. Your opponent determines the outcome.... T ------------------ If not you, then who?

September 29, 2000, 02:33 PM	#6
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	The last two replies make good sense. Anything can happen. It would be smart not to mentally limit yourself ahead of time. Thanks.