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Old May 30, 2014, 11:59 AM   #51
tipoc
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The family of Rodger's has not blamed the NRA or guns that I have heard. There may be confusion with the father of Chris Martinez who was killed. You can see him below.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.s...ra_victim.html

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Old May 30, 2014, 02:43 PM   #52
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Martinez' father is the one who's been so vocal. Is it me, or do his speeches seem uncommonly rehearsed or coached?

Tipoc, thanks for the clarifications on California law.
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Old May 31, 2014, 10:08 AM   #53
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One has the greatest sympathy for loss and folks deal with it differently. However, there is something a touch off in his response. NO - I don't think it was preplanned or great conspiracy but it seems he is rolling with his 15 minutes of fame.

I might be wrong but it does seem that way.
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Old May 31, 2014, 12:13 PM   #54
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Martinez' father is the one who's been so vocal. Is it me, or do his speeches seem uncommonly rehearsed or coached?
I read somewhere that Mr. Martinez is a criminal defense attorney, maybe he is having a guilty conscience over defending criminals that may have later gone on to commit murder?
Being an attorney he's sure to be a fine public speaker.
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Old May 31, 2014, 04:04 PM   #55
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Yes he is a lawyer.

Here is an interview with him from the NY Daily News.

He plans to meet with the family of the killer. He is not interested in meeting with Obama. He blames himself in part for his sons death because he did not do anything to support the Sandy Hook parents and families. He blames both parties for not instituting more gun control laws.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1812100

Like a lot of folks he knows what he's against, mass killings. Not so clear on what he's for...

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Old May 31, 2014, 06:55 PM   #56
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Nothing he could have done except have a total confiscatory ban on guns implemented across the whole country.

That was not going to happen.
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Old May 31, 2014, 07:31 PM   #57
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Like several people pointed out....when I first heard of this tragic event It seemed strange they would only call him a shooter. As I understand he Stabbed 3, rann over 1 and shot 3. This psycho used every weapon at his disposal. One of the victims dads is using this as a anti-NRA platform and that in itself is just wrong! California is one of the tightest gun control states are around and they still seem to think they need even more gun control laws.

Frankly, if just one of the students had been armed and trained this tragedy might have had less victims.
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Old May 31, 2014, 07:45 PM   #58
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It is obvious that the gun control laws in CA are seen as inadequate at they allowed killers to get access to guns. Thus, tougher laws that eliminate guns from the populace will be needed.

Since the NRA, among other groups, would oppose and did oppose such - they are to blame in part. I disagree but that is probably the father's logic.

Why call him a shooter - that's because at first the incident was primarily a shooting. The car was transportation for the shooting. The stabbing was discovered later. First impressions.

Just a hint - carrying on about the stabbings as a reason not to have gun laws isn't going fly as an argument. It is a choir argument. Unfortunately, many in the choir can't really see this point in arguing for the RKBA. If someone says we should ban guns as they kill people, saying we shouldn't ban them because knives kill people also - so we should have guns - makes not to much sense to them. It won't fly as an argument.

You need proactive reasons for gun ownership for self-defense and defense against tyranny. Knives kill, it's for sport - blah, blah. Not going to work to support the RKBA.
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Old June 1, 2014, 01:49 AM   #59
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However, there is something a touch off in his response. NO - I don't think it was preplanned or great conspiracy but it seems he is rolling with his 15 minutes of fame.
Glen are you suggesting that Mr. Martinez is enjoying the effect caused by the murder of his child?

I don't see it and most other people seem to believe he is speaking from the heart.
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Old June 1, 2014, 12:53 PM   #60
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I don't see it and most other people seem to believe he is speaking from the heart.
I don't doubt his grief for a moment. What concerns me is that he's using buzzwords and rhetoric from the Bloomberg/Watts playbook.

After Aurora and Sandy Hook, the gun control groups recruited the families of those rampages with alarming speed. The were prepped and shoved in front of camera as soon as physically possible. I'm very suspicious that is also happening with Mr. Martinez.
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Old June 1, 2014, 02:48 PM   #61
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His behavior is complex and I don't think it is enjoyment but some of his speeches are exaggerated in affect. They just seem off to me.
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Old June 1, 2014, 03:45 PM   #62
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Law school will do that to a guy. And he's not just a lawyer -- he's a defense attorney, which means he has spent a lifetime verbally scrapping, using every debate trick in the book, playing whatever role will most help his client in court, enjoying the clash and conflict of intellectual combat.

Of course he's enjoying that aspect of it. That doesn't mean his grief isn't real, or his opinions aren't honest. It simply means that when he speaks, we can see the effect of the public debate skill he's spent a lifetime honing.

The anti-gun groups probably go down on their knees every night to thank God that a man like this fell into their hands.

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Old June 1, 2014, 06:23 PM   #63
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Kathy is right I think.

Mr. Martinez will find some things to be for and latch on to them and push. He does not need anti-gun organizations to draw him out. Like some of the Sandy
Hook parents, grief and anger draw them into action. They will join with others who can help them. There is no conspiracy to get them going. The anti-gun groups and politicians who come to them will provide for them a structure to work through, they find each other.

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Old June 1, 2014, 06:32 PM   #64
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Let me see if I can pst a link to a petition that is going around by "Move-On" that I received lately.

The anti-gunners are trying to use a similar strategy to that which was born out of the fight against the tobacco industry. A skewed version of it anyway.

It's a version where what you say doers not have to be true there just has to e a lot of it.

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/uni...037900-NOX70wx

Here's a few quotes...

Quote:
Students and faculty at the University of California Santa Barbara (UCSB) are understandably shocked by the hate-filled rampage of a UCSB student Friday night, in which six UCSB students were killed and 13 wounded just off campus. America mourns with the families and we embrace the responsibility to work together to stop this madness. "Not one more," as Richard Martinez, father of 20-year-old Christopher, one of the students who was killed, heartbreakingly challenged us. We are up to the challenge.
Quote:
To that end, we call on the University of California Board of Regents to examine whether the system's $88 billion endowment is contributing to more senseless destruction by being invested in companies that profit from gun violence, obstruct commonsense gun legislation, and fund the NRA. University endowments led the way in divesting from apartheid South Africa and should do so again in divesting from the gun industry.

There have been 72 shootings on school campuses since the Sandy Hook massacre. We cannot afford to invest in gun companies. We are paying too high a cultural price to financially benefit from stock prices that climb even as our young people fall. The University of California, where this latest horror occurred, should stand with its community and ensure that it is not funded with the blood money from these killings. The UCSB community is grieving, but there is a way to stop the madness: divest.
So much wrong here one does not know where to begin. But ya have to and it ain't bad to do so because it clarifies things.

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