Chinese Mauser 98 style??

Harry Bonar · November 10, 2007, 08:08 PM

Sirs:
I was given a supposed "Chinese" 98 Mauser, and it does seem like a dead ringer, bolt interchanges, and other parts. Broke the bbl. out with action wrench and pipe wrench and faced off the front ring even and fitted a stainless 26" 25-06 bbl. to it - test fired two Federal Premium - looked aok!
The crest is barely visible, kind of a rectangular border with oriental markings and above that a "gear" kind of a symbol - barely wisible. Anyone have any info (JIM)?
Hardness is typical Chinese (all Chinese stuff I've found is too hard and the entire action is hard all over! It doesn't look like case hardening but tomorrow I'll run a "s park test" on the action. I had to change the bolt due to an enlarged firing pin hole, yes, I did fit the bolt.
Harry B.
Someday, if I live long enough I want a Rockwell tester! Although I agree with Ackley, "hardness tests are worthless on Mausers.

Wildalaska · November 10, 2007, 08:19 PM

Harry got a pic?

WildigotabookAlaska ™

Harry Bonar · November 10, 2007, 10:05 PM

My camera is on the fritz but thanks for the comeback. It's a hard one - I'll run a spark test on an area under case (if it's cased). It "looks" chinese

Harry B.

**44 AMP** · November 11, 2007, 04:17 PM

My old copy of Small Arms of the World has a picture of the "Chiang Kai Shek" 7.92mm rifle. It is a copy of the "Standard Model" Mauser. The rifle pictured (but not otherwise described) has a straight bolt handle, and looks like a 98K. This is the only reference to a 98 type Mauser used by the Chinese or Nationalist Chinese I could find. Was the original bolt/barrel 8mm? (8x57)?

Could it possibly be a Siamese mauser? I have one of these, sporterised and reworked into .45-70. Interesting thing is there is no serial number, there are some oriental characters on it, but no number I can find. Can't tell if there is a crest without removing the scope base, sorry. Siamese Mausers were made for rimmed rounds, larger than the regular (.473) head size.

James K · November 11, 2007, 11:15 PM

I think Harry knows a Siamese Mauser when he sees one. The Chinese not only bought Mausers from Europe (Belgium, Germany and Czechoslovakia) but they made the 98 Mauser under license from 1936 to 1949. They are sometimes called the "Chiang Kai-Shek" rifle after the late Generalissimo and president of the Republic of China (not to be confused with the Peoples Republic of China, Communist China). They have sling swivels and are really a copy of the Standard Modell short rifle, not the K.98k. The marking described is a standard marking, but no, I can't translate it. One character looks like a square with a vertical line bisecting it, another looks like a backward (to the Nazi symbol) swastika.

The rifles themselves vary considerably in quality, but most I have seen are fair quality and can be made into good sporters. The problem is that in addition to licensed copies made in fairly modern factories, there are literally thousands of copies, many with counterfeit FN, Mauser ("Mausesna"), Radom or even Tokyo Arsenal markings. These were made in small shops all over the country and quality control was non-existent. One could collect a hundred of that kind and never have two alike.

About 20 years ago, at the same time those Mauser broomhandle pistols were imported, thousands of Mauser rifles were brought in and sold for as little as $20 in quantity. I worked on several, and as I said they seemed OK, but remember those were the "official" rifles. The "unofficial" ones, even if they appear well made, should be checked pretty carefully; the Mauser 98 action is very forgiving, but the steel (iron?) in those is dubious at best.

Jim

Harry Bonar · November 12, 2007, 05:41 PM

Hey! Guys!;
Thanks alot for the come-backs - yea, I wish it was a Siamese Mauser - I'd build a 45-70 too.
Haven't had a chance to spark test it yet in parent metal but I'm now sure it is Chinese! I put a 25-06 bbl. on it & test fired - it isn't iron but I think it's high carbon. The crest is not readable, the numbers match (all but the bolt that had an oversize firing pin hole) so I changed the bolt and fitted it - AOK!.
Yea, I'll keep it around for a while and watch it. It does act like it's hard! I'll get it spark tested here at home and I'll bet it's not the German classic carburized steel! I'll watch it guys! Thanks to all.
Harry B.
PS:
Doc came with a Remington p17 action to convert to 495A-Square!!!!! He works at Jacksonville Mayo clinic on old age diseases (he's, I think, been secretly studying me).

Harry Bonar · November 18, 2007, 02:03 PM

Sirs:
Jim, you are right in what it is - so is AMP. It's in pretty nice shape which might mean it's quality enough to be O.K.

However, all the screw-driver bits and other high carbon and alloy steels from China I've always fired up the torch (propane) and drawn them to a blue to prevent them from breaking - (no, I won't draw the action to anything)!
Thanks guys.
Harry B.

November 10, 2007, 08:08 PM	#1
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	Chinese Mauser 98 style?? Sirs: I was given a supposed "Chinese" 98 Mauser, and it does seem like a dead ringer, bolt interchanges, and other parts. Broke the bbl. out with action wrench and pipe wrench and faced off the front ring even and fitted a stainless 26" 25-06 bbl. to it - test fired two Federal Premium - looked aok! The crest is barely visible, kind of a rectangular border with oriental markings and above that a "gear" kind of a symbol - barely wisible. Anyone have any info (JIM)? Hardness is typical Chinese (all Chinese stuff I've found is too hard and the entire action is hard all over! It doesn't look like case hardening but tomorrow I'll run a "s park test" on the action. I had to change the bolt due to an enlarged firing pin hole, yes, I did fit the bolt. Harry B. Someday, if I live long enough I want a Rockwell tester! Although I agree with Ackley, "hardness tests are worthless on Mausers.

November 10, 2007, 10:05 PM	#3
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	a pic My camera is on the fritz but thanks for the comeback. It's a hard one - I'll run a spark test on an area under case (if it's cased). It "looks" chinese Harry B.

November 11, 2007, 04:17 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,870	Chinese Mauser My old copy of Small Arms of the World has a picture of the "Chiang Kai Shek" 7.92mm rifle. It is a copy of the "Standard Model" Mauser. The rifle pictured (but not otherwise described) has a straight bolt handle, and looks like a 98K. This is the only reference to a 98 type Mauser used by the Chinese or Nationalist Chinese I could find. Was the original bolt/barrel 8mm? (8x57)? Could it possibly be a Siamese mauser? I have one of these, sporterised and reworked into .45-70. Interesting thing is there is no serial number, there are some oriental characters on it, but no number I can find. Can't tell if there is a crest without removing the scope base, sorry. Siamese Mausers were made for rimmed rounds, larger than the regular (.473) head size. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 12, 2007, 05:41 PM	#6
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	Mauser Hey! Guys!; Thanks alot for the come-backs - yea, I wish it was a Siamese Mauser - I'd build a 45-70 too. Haven't had a chance to spark test it yet in parent metal but I'm now sure it is Chinese! I put a 25-06 bbl. on it & test fired - it isn't iron but I think it's high carbon. The crest is not readable, the numbers match (all but the bolt that had an oversize firing pin hole) so I changed the bolt and fitted it - AOK!. Yea, I'll keep it around for a while and watch it. It does act like it's hard! I'll get it spark tested here at home and I'll bet it's not the German classic carburized steel! I'll watch it guys! Thanks to all. Harry B. PS: Doc came with a Remington p17 action to convert to 495A-Square!!!!! He works at Jacksonville Mayo clinic on old age diseases (he's, I think, been secretly studying me).

November 18, 2007, 02:03 PM	#7
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	98 Chinese Sirs: Jim, you are right in what it is - so is AMP. It's in pretty nice shape which might mean it's quality enough to be O.K. However, all the screw-driver bits and other high carbon and alloy steels from China I've always fired up the torch (propane) and drawn them to a blue to prevent them from breaking - (no, I won't draw the action to anything)! Thanks guys. Harry B.

November 10, 2007, 08:19 PM	#2
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Harry got a pic? WildigotabookAlaska ™

November 11, 2007, 11:15 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think Harry knows a Siamese Mauser when he sees one. The Chinese not only bought Mausers from Europe (Belgium, Germany and Czechoslovakia) but they made the 98 Mauser under license from 1936 to 1949. They are sometimes called the "Chiang Kai-Shek" rifle after the late Generalissimo and president of the Republic of China (not to be confused with the Peoples Republic of China, Communist China). They have sling swivels and are really a copy of the Standard Modell short rifle, not the K.98k. The marking described is a standard marking, but no, I can't translate it. One character looks like a square with a vertical line bisecting it, another looks like a backward (to the Nazi symbol) swastika. The rifles themselves vary considerably in quality, but most I have seen are fair quality and can be made into good sporters. The problem is that in addition to licensed copies made in fairly modern factories, there are literally thousands of copies, many with counterfeit FN, Mauser ("Mausesna"), Radom or even Tokyo Arsenal markings. These were made in small shops all over the country and quality control was non-existent. One could collect a hundred of that kind and never have two alike. About 20 years ago, at the same time those Mauser broomhandle pistols were imported, thousands of Mauser rifles were brought in and sold for as little as $20 in quantity. I worked on several, and as I said they seemed OK, but remember those were the "official" rifles. The "unofficial" ones, even if they appear well made, should be checked pretty carefully; the Mauser 98 action is very forgiving, but the steel (iron?) in those is dubious at best. Jim