Shot my first reloads. Ejector marks.

[savagest]

Pretty much a success. I found a few loads I might start to make. Overall good day.

My question is I am using Federal brass that came with their Match .308 ammo. I started to get some ejector marks on some of my loads near maximum. Primers look fine, not cratered or leaking. Am I in the safe zone? The ejector marks are just visible, I can't feel them.

And can I reuse the brass if it has these marks?

[Cyberbach]

Pictures?

[savagest]

[IMG][/IMG]

The primers didn't fall out, I took them out to inspect. you can see on the second one there is an ejector mark on the bottom, most of them have it to some extent, that one is the worst. Like I said, I can't feel it.

[dahermit]

My question is I am using Federal brass that came with their Match .308 ammo. I started to get some ejector marks on some of my loads near maximum. Primers look fine, not cratered or leaking. Am I in the safe zone?

No, as per many official hand loading sources (manuals), you are slightly over.

And can I reuse the brass if it has these marks?

Yes.
My personal suggestion: Unless the group size produced by that load is truly outstanding, I would investigate (work-up), different loads; that one is too close to the edge to be safe under all conditions.

[mehavey]

Federal brass is [notoriously] soft and will begin to flow at levels that other brass would withstand [more] easily.

It's still "good" and you can reuse it, ...but at lower levels. Eventual primer pocket looseness will tell you when to discard. (And do not oversize. Just enough that cases will chamber reliably, no more)

[Bart B.]

If the case head expands back into the bolt face holes, pressure's too high for it. Most cartridge brass starts extruding at about 65,000 CUP to 70,000 CUP; that's up close to 80,000 PSI.

Those pictures tell the story very well. I'd cut the charge a grain or more.

[Nathan]

I'm not going to attempt a psi guess, but practically, you don't want brass flow because it will raise a burr which causes feed issues and reloading issues.

I was able to use them but had to touch up with a file.

I can't tell for sure, but your marks don't look bad.

[steve4102]

Pictures awe always helpful,but they are only part of the info needed to help.
More details of the load and rifle are needed.

[savagest]

Savage model 10. 175 grain smk hpbt. Federal 210 primers. This load was with 42.3 grains of imr 4064. I started to see the marks at a lower grain levels also.

[stubbicatt]

I have found that, as a rule, the Federal brass is thicker than other makes, and consequently the "boiler room" area is less, requiring smaller charges of powder for similar pressures.

Stated differently, you will reach maximum safe load pressures with Federal brass at lower charge weights than you will typically find with Winchester brass, all other things being equal.

[snuffy]

Federal rifle brass that I find, I pick up to go directly into my recycle/scrap bucket.

I bet if you resize those, then attempt to seat a new primer, it will seat real easy or even fall out. Like was said, federal brass is soft, the head will NOT stand up to even normal loads. Try it and see.

[chiefr]

When you use max loads, you will usually have some deformity of the brass. I assume they were hard to eject. If they were, I would back off.

[savagest]

I am .5 below max and there was no problem ejecting. I will probably buy some good brass.

[savagest]

Can anyone recommend decent brass?

[mehavey]

I buy/use Remington, Lapua, Starline, PPU, and Winchester brass.

All of them are very good. But on balance of cost & quality/performance, and $/caselife, however
Winchester is a best buy.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I use Norma rifle brass. I've had two bags of Winchester. For the work that I had to put into it to get it close to the specs of Norma brass right out of the box, no thanks. I'll buy the Norma. Long term, cost is irrelevant. I've got numerous cases in several cartridges with over 10 loads on them that are indistinguishable from 1st load brass. I anneal the necks about every 4 loads.

On those ejector marks... that wasn't a freshly cleaned gun with some oil inadvertently in the chamber, by chance?

[mehavey]

I forgot. I've used/use Norma brass too (for my 8mm/K98 and 220 Swift).

Still, Winchester is my default for everyday/run-of-the-mill work, annealing when
the expander ball gets laborsome and/or "squeaks"

(As you can see, however, this topic is akin to the best engine oil for vintage British mororcycles)

[savagest]

The rifle was cleaned before i went to the range. It had probably had oil in the chamber when i shot my first loads. The rifle had 42 rounds through it before this load.

[savagest]

I also have some federal match ammo in 7.62x51. The case is different than the 308. The primers are crimped in, are these any better?

[Eppie]

savagest,
You seem to be interested in accuracy, not just reloading ammo. You're using a FGMM ammo, Federal cases, Savage rifle and Sierra bullets and book.

I also use Federal brass from the GMM ammo. I've got a couple thousand cases and I'm not going to waste them. I'm using them to learn precision reloading. I also use a Savage 10 and had the same exact thing happen to me.

All the guys above are correct in their assessment of the federal brass as being soft and your load being too strong. Back off on the powder.

One thing they haven't mentioned is neck thickness. Because the federal brass is soft it flows more, so the neck gets a little thicker after the first couple of firings. But not uniformly so. One side more than the other.

When you resizes your cases you are resizing the outside, but the thicker neck holds the bullet tighter causing overpressure symptoms.

Since these are your first reloads you haven't gotten stuck or tight cases after firing. After you've used the same cases 2-3 times you will.

Use your calipers and measure the neck wall thickness, you will see substantial variance and it's commonly called "runout". The fancy name is "concentricity". This will affect your accuracy as you go down the road.

You may delay the whole neck issue if you go with high end Lapua and Norma brass or harder brass like Winchester. But you will have to learn about it if accuracy is a goal, and I don't think anybody likes to miss their target.

[Brian Pfleuger]

The rifle was cleaned before i went to the range. It had probably had oil in the chamber when i shot my first loads. The rifle had 42 rounds through it before this load.

Clean the gun again and use a chamber sized bore mop to make sure there isn't any oil left in the chamber.

Back off your load by a grain and work it back up. See what happens.

[praetorian97]

What brand of reloading manual is that in the background?

[savagest]

Sierra