Cast bullet tax?

Webleymkv · August 28, 2011, 01:44 PM

I was at the Indy 1500 (IN State Fairgrounds) gun show on Friday. While I was there, both my dad and I each bought a 500-count box of cast bullets (components only, not loaded ammo) and the gentleman that sold us the bullets informed us that there was a tax of $1/500 bullets. This was the first I've heard of such a tax, does anyone else have any information on this?

brickeyee · August 29, 2011, 09:32 AM

Pittman act tax covers bullets, but is based on value (percentage of price).

Sounds like BS.

Hardcase · August 29, 2011, 01:41 PM

The Pittman-Robertson Act only applies to assembled ammunition and firearms (excluding handguns), and then only to the original manufacturer, producer or importer. Components are exempt. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about commerce and taxes, but I've got my doubts about that "tax".

FrankenMauser · August 29, 2011, 03:43 PM

This one sounds like BS, but the Federal Excise tax does cover component bullets (original manufacturer). Many gunshow casters don't have their Class 06 FFL, though. Most small-time casters think they can interpret the Federal regulations better than the ATF, but never make it to the actual definition that matters:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18 USC 44 § 921(a)(17)(A)

The term "ammunition"
means ammunition or cartridge cases,
primers, bullets, or propellant powder
designed for use in any firearm

Webleymkv · August 29, 2011, 05:45 PM

I thought it sounded odd because the supposed "tax" was the same amount ($1) regardless of the price of the bullets. The bullets Dad bought (210gr .410" SWC) were about $8 per box more than the ones I bought (158gr .358" SWC) but we were both charged the same $1 "tax". Honestly though, I'm not all that upset about it because the price on the bullets was more than competitive even after the "tax".

Hardcase · August 29, 2011, 08:16 PM

Frankenmauser, that definition only applies within 18 USC 44. The excise tax that Pittman-Robertson collects is defined in 26 USC 32 and refers, in this case, specifically to assembled ammunition. There is no excise tax on component parts.

FrankenMauser · August 30, 2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Frankenmauser, that definition only applies within 18 USC 44. The excise tax that Pittman-Robertson collects is defined in 26 USC 32 and refers, in this case, specifically to assembled ammunition. There is no excise tax on component parts.

I understand that, and was simply pointing out something that's not well known.

In addition: 18 USC 44 Specifically states that the excise tax does apply to ammunition components.

I don't have the text available at the moment, but I believe it is located in 18 USC 44 § 921(a).

Hardcase · August 30, 2011, 09:59 AM

I guess that you're going to have to point out the specific section of 18 USC 44 that says that components are subject to taxation because I can't find it. Title 18 is for crimes. Title 26 is for taxes and it refers only to loaded ammunition, not components.

Title 18 does define what constitutes ammunition for licensing purposes.

FrankenMauser · August 30, 2011, 04:03 PM

I can't, for the life of me, find the section I saw that reference in.
I have a pdf with a compilation of the regulations pertinent to component manufacturing, that I know I can find it in. ...But it won't open on this laptop.

I'm wondering if I was using an old copy of 18 USC 44 § 921, when I compiled the data. The current date for that section is Feb 1, 2010. I'd be willing to bet I was using a previous version, that had a paragraph that conflicted with Title 26, which has since been removed.

If I can get this pdf document open, I'll post the info. But, at this time, I think I am wrong (based on the current version).

**44 AMP** · September 2, 2011, 06:04 PM

sounds like a local tax. Might be something for each sale ($1) of bullets/ammo/whatever in that jurisdiction. Could be state, could even be county/town.

Never ran across any Fed tax like that, and I've bought a lot of bullets! Just none in Indy.

August 28, 2011, 01:44 PM	#1
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Cast bullet tax? I was at the Indy 1500 (IN State Fairgrounds) gun show on Friday. While I was there, both my dad and I each bought a 500-count box of cast bullets (components only, not loaded ammo) and the gentleman that sold us the bullets informed us that there was a tax of $1/500 bullets. This was the first I've heard of such a tax, does anyone else have any information on this?

August 29, 2011, 01:41 PM	#3
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	The Pittman-Robertson Act only applies to assembled ammunition and firearms (excluding handguns), and then only to the original manufacturer, producer or importer. Components are exempt. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about commerce and taxes, but I've got my doubts about that "tax". __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

August 29, 2011, 08:16 PM	#6
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	Frankenmauser, that definition only applies within 18 USC 44. The excise tax that Pittman-Robertson collects is defined in 26 USC 32 and refers, in this case, specifically to assembled ammunition. There is no excise tax on component parts. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

August 30, 2011, 09:59 AM	#8
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	I guess that you're going to have to point out the specific section of 18 USC 44 that says that components are subject to taxation because I can't find it. Title 18 is for crimes. Title 26 is for taxes and it refers only to loaded ammunition, not components. Title 18 does define what constitutes ammunition for licensing purposes. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

August 30, 2011, 04:03 PM	#9
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I can't, for the life of me, find the section I saw that reference in. I have a pdf with a compilation of the regulations pertinent to component manufacturing, that I know I can find it in. ...But it won't open on this laptop. I'm wondering if I was using an old copy of 18 USC 44 § 921, when I compiled the data. The current date for that section is Feb 1, 2010. I'd be willing to bet I was using a previous version, that had a paragraph that conflicted with Title 26, which has since been removed. If I can get this pdf document open, I'll post the info. But, at this time, I think I am wrong (based on the current version). __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 29, 2011, 09:32 AM	#2
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	Pittman act tax covers bullets, but is based on value (percentage of price). Sounds like BS.

August 29, 2011, 05:45 PM	#5
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	I thought it sounded odd because the supposed "tax" was the same amount ($1) regardless of the price of the bullets. The bullets Dad bought (210gr .410" SWC) were about $8 per box more than the ones I bought (158gr .358" SWC) but we were both charged the same $1 "tax". Honestly though, I'm not all that upset about it because the price on the bullets was more than competitive even after the "tax".

September 2, 2011, 06:04 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,812	sounds like a local tax. Might be something for each sale ($1) of bullets/ammo/whatever in that jurisdiction. Could be state, could even be county/town. Never ran across any Fed tax like that, and I've bought a lot of bullets! Just none in Indy. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

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