Is 30 Carbine the Round of the Future?

[Nathan]

Seems like a great round for a new short mag sbr. I'm thinks a 3/4 scale AR like the KAC PDW, but in 30 Carbine instead of 6x35. Thoughts? It is better because 30 has many lightweight pointed bullets ready to go. Suppressed would just be 180's or something....

[MarkCO]

There are a few out there. One company has made a good run at them in an AR copy, but they are not going over well. The 300BO has too much "new flash" marketing.

http://www.excelarms.com/rifles/xseriesrifle.html

The competition with 9mm PCCs using pistol mags and 300 BO using AR mags kind of leaves the .30 Carbine out of a mass appeal position. But there are a good number of people who see the benefit of the round.

[armoredman]

interesting idea, but I doubt there's much the 30 Carbine could do that more modern rounds couldn't do quite well in an SBR. The Enforcer would have been the SBR style of 30 carbine back in the day. I think there was an improved version at one time that might have worked well in an SBR or pistol caliber carbine.

[Scorch]

Round of the future? Heck, it isn't even the round of the past 20 years. What a waste of powder and bullet materials. It was popular 40-50 years ago because of cheap ammo and cheap rifles, but it was worthless even then. Seems everybody had one stashed in the back of the closet that they never shot. No, not the round of the future, IMO.

[dahermit]

Round of the future? Heck, it isn't even the round of the past 20 years. What a waste of powder and bullet materials. It was popular 40-50 years ago because of cheap ammo and cheap rifles, but it was worthless even then. Seems everybody had one stashed in the back of the closet that they never shot. No, not the round of the future, IMO.

"Worthless", only relative to what you envision using it for. Others, myself included, really like the round (in the M1 Carbine), for plinking, three-gun competitions, informal recreational shooting, etc. It may not be ideal for deer hunting or other specific uses one may have an interest in, but not all guns are ideal for hunting, or some other specific use... some are just fun. As long as I am having fun, it is not a waste of powder and bullets.

[Jimro]

It's not the round of the future. The 300 BO can do what you want already in an PDW size package. The 30 carbine is a fine round with soft point bullets, and if you have an M1 carbine it's a great handy little rifle. Of course the M1 Carbine was adopted for support troops so they would have something larger than a pistol, kinda like the PDW of its day...

The CAC PDW isn't that much smaller than a compact AR anyways, and the ballistics are such that even a 5.56x45 is comparable. So I doubt that 6x35 is a cartridge of the future either.

Jimro

[dahermit]

...the M1 Carbine was adopted for support troops so they would have something larger than a pistol...

Nevertheless, it was issued to some paratroopers in Europe, and I believe in the WWII Pacific (at least I have seen war footage of it being used in combat), and Korea (M2 Carbine).
It is not the "round of the future", for sure...no matter how much I like it.

[taylorce1]

I have a cheap universal carbine, sure is fun to shoot and pretty accurate at 100 yards with the factory sights. I can usually pick up 50 rounds of FMJ for less than $20, especially if I go with steel cased ammunition. I'd love to have a little Howa Mini or Mini Mauser action in .22 Spitfire based off the .30 Carbine. I think it's better than the .22 Hornet and equal to the K Hornet for the reloader.

[Kosh75287]

Is 30 Carbine the Round of the Future?

GOSH, I hope NOT!

[g.willikers]

There's plenty of competition for that spot with more modern and accessible calibers in a carbine, like .38 super or even 9mm and 9mm major.
The day for the .30 carbine might have come and gone a long time ago.
It was once popular mostly due to the availability of cheap surplus ammo.

[smee78]

As much as I like the little carbine, I dought it's the next big thing. I did find something funny, 45 colt fits into the M1carbine mags just fine.

[RickB]

Funny that a knock against a 70yo round is that a 10yo round "already" does what you foresee the .30 Carbine doing?
What the .300BO offers is compatibility with the AR. There's nothing especially interesting about the ballistics.
I'd be more interested in different rounds for the M1 Carbine platform, than oddball loadings of the .30 Carbine round, but that would have also been for the day of cheap, surplus Carbines.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by Jimro

Of course the M1 Carbine was adopted for support troops so they would have something larger than a pistol, kinda like the PDW of its day...

I thought the whole point was not to have something larger than a pistol, but to have something that was easier to shoot for most people. It is a lot harder to teach a recruit how to shoot a small rifle with reasonable accuracy than a pistol.

Originally Posted by RickB

What the .300BO offers is compatibility with the AR. There's nothing especially interesting about the ballistics.

Yeah, the .300 Blackout is an excellent solution designed to solve a very specific problem, a heavy subsonic round suitable for suppressed AR pattern rifles.

If you do not have that specific problem to solve, it isn't all that great.

[Pathfinder45]

I think it's something from the past that was good for what it was made for and is still a viable package with the M1 Carbine as a home defense option. I expect it will continue to fade into the background. But who knows; as there are now new versions of the M1 carbine being made?

[TMD]

With all the military surpluses ammo dried up about two decades ago the .30 carbines time has passed.

[T. O'Heir]

Not a chance. The Carbine throws a 110 grain bullet at about 2,000 FPS. The new fangled .300 BO can throw a 230 grain bullet.
"...military surpluses ammo dried up..." Whoopee. Wasn't much good anyway. All the silly sob stories about the .30 Carbine are based on milsurp ammo.
"...in .22 Spitfire..." No ammo. No brass. No data. You'd be making it.

[seeker_two]

I think the 5.7x28 is going to be the next .30 Carbine.....

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...in .22 Spitfire..." No ammo. No brass. No data. You'd be making it.

That's where the fun is all at! Besides there is some data on the 5.7 Johnson aka Spitfire, and here as well. Oh Yeah, ammo is available as well PCI 5.7mm Johnson. It's a little expensive but for a reloader to get 50 cases at $1 each isn't bad, considering how many times you could reload them.

[Guv]

First center fire rifle I ever fired as a kid was a WWII era M1 carbine. What a blast that little gun was and an efficient little cartridge! A few years latter we went hunting with my uncle and his Javelina gun was an M1 carbine. I would truly love one except for the price, they used to be affordable.

[natman]

No.

I love it, but it will always be what it has been; a magnum pistol round fired from a small light carbine.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

M1 30 carbine. War time short range battle rifle. Not much power not much bullet either. Great cartridge for up close and personal defense on the street. Other than that. Game wise taking. Rabbit comes to mind.

[bamaranger]

The .30 Carbine round was oddly selected, sort of by default if you will, based on an old Winchester .32 SLR round. The .32 SLR was anemic, and the resultant .30 Carbine was not cutting edge even in its day, though it served its purpose well, if not just by the pressure of sheer numbers.

What the handy little M-1 carbine needs is a a better cartridge.. I have no idea what the pressure limits of the action are, but I wish that they'd seen fit to go the .351 SLR route, or .401. A modern version could be something like a souped up 10mm (10mm Maximum or 10MM Super?) RL Wilson talks about just such a cartridge in his Ruger book, describing a hot .40 based on a shortened and modified 45-70 case cut to fit and run through the early Ruger Carbine action. Such a hot .40 was said to exceed 30-30 energy. What about a magzine holding 10-20 of those in a 5.5 lb M1 carbine?

[Jimro]

I thought the whole point was not to have something larger than a pistol, but to have something that was easier to shoot for most people. It is a lot harder to teach a recruit how to shoot a small rifle with reasonable accuracy than a pistol.

Whether or not there was a deliberate thought process about a carbine being easier to train than a pistol is not one I'd ever come across, but it's clear the War Department was looking at creating a main battle rifle and a support troop carbine. Considering the distinct lack of effective pistol range I don't think that anyone seriously considered pistols as an effective support weapon.

There were so many Soldiers whose job wasn't fighting with a real rifle, but aren't in jobs where a pistol would be an acceptable substitute. Forward observers, postal clerks, vehicle crew members, people who were in the war business to do something other than Infantry. Now the trend towards a shorter rifle started in the Infantry with the M4, and caused the phase out of the longer M16.

Jimro

[kcub]

I love it, but it will always be what it has been; a magnum pistol round fired from a small light carbine.

And what's wrong with that? It's been doing what it was designed to do, beat the crap out of being stuck in a jam with nothing but a pistol. You can hit anything you can see. Not much keeps breathing after one of these poked through an eye socket. Not a bad home defense weapon at all.

I wonder if someone makes a light that mounts on a bayonet socket for night or low light? I don't recall whether it even has a bayonet socket.

[taylorce1]

As it is with the firearms industry all things old are new again. Since I was talking about the .22 Spitfire aka 5.7mm Johnson I've been digging around a little on Google. Low and behold there is a big out there is a guy trying to make a living wildcatting the .30 carbine from 17-25 calibers, check out the Garin Sure Strike System.