New Deer Rifle.. - Page 3

DennisCA · February 12, 2015, 04:44 PM

Snyper - Had it right; it has nothing to do with being in shape, lighter rifles are easier to handle. Being that said, I hunted in SW AZ for several years and the last damn thing you want is a heavy rifle! MY model 70 weighs aprox 7 lbs and at the end of day it felt like 20 lbs! And I was in decent shape back then (mid 80's).

Gunplummer · February 13, 2015, 12:17 PM

Calm down fellas. We all were young once and thought the substitute for inexperienced hunting was a bigger gun and more powerful scope.

jimbob86 · February 16, 2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Because people don't want heavy rifles when light weight guns are easier to handle.

...and heavier guns are easier to shoot well.

Quote:

It really has nothing to do with "getting in shape"

Of course it has something to do with "getting in shape": the gun, load, sighting equipement and the shooter are all intergral parts of the system that has to work together to put the bullet on target. Impoving any of these is an improvement to the system.

IME, the part of the system generally needing the most improvement is that last one. Maybe that's not potlitically correct, but it's true.

lefteye · February 16, 2015, 08:06 PM

Lighter weight rifles and getting in shape are definite advantages if the hunter must travel long distances on foot or "climb mountains" such as hunting in the Bob Marshall or Scapegoat. I have hunted both as well as other mountainous terrain, and fortunately, I was in good shape and my rifle was relatively light. Heavier rifles are obviously easier to shoot accurately and this may even be true after climbing a mountain, unless, of course, the extra weight makes it harder to breath. IMHO heavier rifles are unlikely to offset the benefit of being in the best physical condition. Distance running and muscle strengthening exercises are vital components of preparing for a hunting adventure, especially one costing more than the rifle and scope.

edit: typo

Snyper · February 16, 2015, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Of course it has something to do with "getting in shape": the gun, load, sighting equipement and the shooter are all intergral parts of the system that has to work together to put the bullet on target. Impoving any of these is an improvement to the system.

A long barreled 12 lb gun will never handle as well as a short 6 lb gun.

When I was young I framed houses and hung sheetrock, so I was "in shape".

I still didn't want to carry a Sendero all day when a Micro Medallion would kill deer as effectively and was easier to handle in dense woods.

It's all about details, and "shape" is the least important variable

Quote:

heavier guns are easier to shoot well.

Not really.

My lightest rifles are every bit as accurate as the heaviest, and my Contenders will do almost as well

Heavier guns are just more pleasant to shoot from a rest

lefteye · February 16, 2015, 09:59 PM

The accuracy of a bolt action rifle (ignoring the load) depends on the action, the "fit" of the barrel to the action, and the physical characteristics of the barrel. If the weight of the barrel was irrelevant (or the least relevant factor) why would the National Bench Rest Shooters Association classify bench rest rifles by weight? Such a classification system suggests the weight of a barrel is so relevant to the accuracy of a rifle that it must be accounted for in bench rest competition.

The fact that outfitters request information about customers' physical condition also suggests physical condition is relevant to the hunt.

jimbob86 · February 17, 2015, 09:17 AM

Quote:

I still didn't want to carry a Sendero all day when a Micro Medallion would kill deer as effectively and was easier to handle in dense woods.

Right tool for the right job ...... right? The sendero would confer no appreciable advantage at "dense woods" ranges.

That said, if you are hunting beyond brush gun distances, such that a shot might present itself anywhere from 15 feet to "way out past Ft. Mudge", would it be:

- better to be packing a rifle, or a carbine?

-better to be "in shape", or "round shape"?

The OP will be hunting texas hill country, out to 250 yards, from a high seat or the ground. Given those parameters, a rifle would be preferable.

Gunplummer · February 17, 2015, 04:05 PM

If you are in shape there is no need for a long range rifle in tough terrain. You should be able to get up close on the animal you are hunting. Every year people die just hiking right here where I hunt. Look up the Lehigh Gorge State Park in PA. Be careful out in that Nebraska wheat stubble next hunting season, it could spike you if you fall.

jimbob86 · February 17, 2015, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Be careful out in that Nebraska wheat stubble next hunting season, it could spike you if you fall.

Folks who have never been here seem to know all about it ..... and wheat stubble is pee-poor habitat for deer, and therefore a bad bet for hunting them, BTW .....

Look up "dissected loess plains" ..... it can get to be pretty rough country, in places ..... though nobody gets killed "hiking" out there .... there are much more hospitable places to go for a walk ......

Snyper · February 17, 2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

That said, if you are hunting beyond brush gun distances, such that a shot might present itself anywhere from 15 feet to "way out past Ft. Mudge", would it be:

- better to be packing a rifle, or a carbine?

-better to be "in shape", or "round shape"?

It wouldn't matter.

The weakest link will be the shooter himself when both rifles will shoot sub MOA.

At any reasonable distance, the smaller rifle is just as effective

Quote:

The OP will be hunting texas hill country, out to 250 yards, from a high seat or the ground. Given those parameters, a rifle would be preferable.

I've killed deer farther than that with both a Model 7 6mm Remington 18.5" barrel, and a Micro Medallion 7mm08 20" barrel

Snyper · February 17, 2015, 07:39 PM

Quote:

If the weight of the barrel was irrelevant (or the least relevant factor) why would the National Bench Rest Shooters Association classify bench rest rifles by weight?

Such a classification system suggests the weight of a barrel is so relevant to the accuracy of a rifle that it must be accounted for in bench rest competition.

That really has nothing at all to do with hunting, since those rifles aren't carried at all, and winning is often measured in fractions of an inch

Many sports have weight limits for different divisions to assure the equipment is the same, and not because one weight is "better"

reynolds357 · February 17, 2015, 08:04 PM

Lefteye, the weight of the barrel is pretty much irrelevant when dealing with the highest quality matchgrade barrels. From a bench, having a heavy rifle is advantageous due to the fact that weight makes the rifle much easier to shoot in free recoil. It is nigh impossible to free recoil a featherweight. My latest bench gun is a light varmint contour barrel, a heavy bat action, and a heavy (weight added) stock.
Back in the days of the junk barrels, thicker was better. Now, not so much truth to the adage.

jimbob86 · February 17, 2015, 09:42 PM

I believe that a heavier gun is easier to shoot well, all else being equal, for one big reason: recoil.

A 24" barrelled, 10+ lb .270WIN will kick you less in the shoulder, and a lot less in the ears, than a 16" barrelled 7-08 that weighs 3 pounds less, even though the .270 will deliver more energy, on a flatter trajectory than the carbine. That's an extreme example (and one I used because I have both of those guns), but the principle is the same even if they were both 7-08's.

Snyper · February 18, 2015, 05:48 AM

Quote:

I believe that a heavier gun is easier to shoot well, all else being equal, for one big reason: recoil.

That's still the shooter, not the gun.

Unless it's a big Magnum cartridge, recoil isn't really a factor in being able to shoot well with any rifle that fits.

As long as you don't flinch, there will be little difference in the results

jimbob86 · February 18, 2015, 08:48 AM

Quote:

That's still the shooter, not the gun.

Which is exactly my, point, snyper, which I made back in post 53:

Quote:

Of course it has something to do with "getting in shape": the gun, load, sighting equipement and the shooter are all intergral parts of the system that has to work together to put the bullet on target. Impoving any of these is an improvement to the system.

IME, the part of the system generally needing the most improvement is that last one. Maybe that's not potlitically correct, but it's true.

For shooting, it's easier to get better results with a heavier gun.

For schlepping, it's easier to get better results with a snub-nosed revolver.

If you spent enough time working with it (think Bob Munden), you'd get adequate results with the snubby.

It'd take less time and resources for the shooter to conditon his body to where a 10 pound rifle was not so onerous as be "too heavy" to hunt with ..... the improved muscle tone would likely improve his shooting regardless what he was shooting as well.

The shooter is nearly always the weakest link.

tsreeves831 · February 18, 2015, 01:44 PM

IMG_1814.jpg

Well I finally pulled the trigger on one!

Panfisher · February 18, 2015, 03:43 PM

Well come on man which savage is it, caliber, etc. how does it shoot, does it speak to you, what is the rifles name?????

tsreeves831 · February 18, 2015, 05:19 PM

Its the Savage 11/111 in the .7mm-08. I went with the combo model just so I would have a decent scope until I upgrade it. I also got the 22" barrel instead of the 24" just to make it handle a tad better. It does have the accutrigger and I love the new stock design on this model. The old one was very plain and ugly so the new design did make it a little easier on the eyes. Haven't got to heat up the barrel yet because of this old 9 to 5 but I will shoot it ASAP. As for a name.... I think I am going to go with "Widow Maker".

Panfisher · February 18, 2015, 06:17 PM

NICE! The 7-08 is a great round, should be a great shooter in the Savage.

jimbob86 · February 18, 2015, 06:21 PM

Nice gun.

Unless you are using some really slow powders, the 22" barrel won't lose enough velocity to worry about, and the -08 case is not really suited to those, anyhow.

Saltydog235 · February 18, 2015, 07:16 PM

My favorite cartridge. Killed a whole lot of critters with the 7mm08.

Just shoot it and enjoy it.

Toney · February 19, 2015, 11:59 AM

Congrats!!! But there was always 270 ammo

February 16, 2015, 08:06 PM	#54
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	Lighter weight rifles and getting in shape are definite advantages if the hunter must travel long distances on foot or "climb mountains" such as hunting in the Bob Marshall or Scapegoat. I have hunted both as well as other mountainous terrain, and fortunately, I was in good shape and my rifle was relatively light. Heavier rifles are obviously easier to shoot accurately and this may even be true after climbing a mountain, unless, of course, the extra weight makes it harder to breath. IMHO heavier rifles are unlikely to offset the benefit of being in the best physical condition. Distance running and muscle strengthening exercises are vital components of preparing for a hunting adventure, especially one costing more than the rifle and scope. edit: typo __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member Last edited by lefteye; February 16, 2015 at 08:37 PM.

February 16, 2015, 09:59 PM	#56
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	The accuracy of a bolt action rifle (ignoring the load) depends on the action, the "fit" of the barrel to the action, and the physical characteristics of the barrel. If the weight of the barrel was irrelevant (or the least relevant factor) why would the National Bench Rest Shooters Association classify bench rest rifles by weight? Such a classification system suggests the weight of a barrel is so relevant to the accuracy of a rifle that it must be accounted for in bench rest competition. The fact that outfitters request information about customers' physical condition also suggests physical condition is relevant to the hunt. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member Last edited by lefteye; February 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM.

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February 12, 2015, 04:44 PM	#51
DennisCA Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2012 Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA) Posts: 451	Snyper - Had it right; it has nothing to do with being in shape, lighter rifles are easier to handle. Being that said, I hunted in SW AZ for several years and the last damn thing you want is a heavy rifle! MY model 70 weighs aprox 7 lbs and at the end of day it felt like 20 lbs! And I was in decent shape back then (mid 80's).

February 13, 2015, 12:17 PM	#52
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Calm down fellas. We all were young once and thought the substitute for inexperienced hunting was a bigger gun and more powerful scope.

February 17, 2015, 04:05 PM	#58
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	If you are in shape there is no need for a long range rifle in tough terrain. You should be able to get up close on the animal you are hunting. Every year people die just hiking right here where I hunt. Look up the Lehigh Gorge State Park in PA. Be careful out in that Nebraska wheat stubble next hunting season, it could spike you if you fall.

February 17, 2015, 08:04 PM	#62
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Lefteye, the weight of the barrel is pretty much irrelevant when dealing with the highest quality matchgrade barrels. From a bench, having a heavy rifle is advantageous due to the fact that weight makes the rifle much easier to shoot in free recoil. It is nigh impossible to free recoil a featherweight. My latest bench gun is a light varmint contour barrel, a heavy bat action, and a heavy (weight added) stock. Back in the days of the junk barrels, thicker was better. Now, not so much truth to the adage.

February 17, 2015, 09:42 PM	#63
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	I believe that a heavier gun is easier to shoot well, all else being equal, for one big reason: recoil. A 24" barrelled, 10+ lb .270WIN will kick you less in the shoulder, and a lot less in the ears, than a 16" barrelled 7-08 that weighs 3 pounds less, even though the .270 will deliver more energy, on a flatter trajectory than the carbine. That's an extreme example (and one I used because I have both of those guns), but the principle is the same even if they were both 7-08's.

February 18, 2015, 01:44 PM	#66
tsreeves831 Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 19	IMG_1814.jpg Well I finally pulled the trigger on one!

February 18, 2015, 03:43 PM	#67
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	Well come on man which savage is it, caliber, etc. how does it shoot, does it speak to you, what is the rifles name?????

February 18, 2015, 05:19 PM	#68
tsreeves831 Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 19	Its the Savage 11/111 in the .7mm-08. I went with the combo model just so I would have a decent scope until I upgrade it. I also got the 22" barrel instead of the 24" just to make it handle a tad better. It does have the accutrigger and I love the new stock design on this model. The old one was very plain and ugly so the new design did make it a little easier on the eyes. Haven't got to heat up the barrel yet because of this old 9 to 5 but I will shoot it ASAP. As for a name.... I think I am going to go with "Widow Maker".

February 18, 2015, 06:17 PM	#69
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	NICE! The 7-08 is a great round, should be a great shooter in the Savage.

February 18, 2015, 06:21 PM	#70
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Nice gun. Unless you are using some really slow powders, the 22" barrel won't lose enough velocity to worry about, and the -08 case is not really suited to those, anyhow.

February 18, 2015, 07:16 PM	#71
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	My favorite cartridge. Killed a whole lot of critters with the 7mm08. Just shoot it and enjoy it.

February 19, 2015, 11:59 AM	#72
Toney Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2005 Location: Stillwater Oklahoma Posts: 790	Congrats!!! But there was always 270 ammo