Muzzleloader Beginner-Need Advice

firme67 · November 4, 2013, 11:00 PM

I would like to get into muzzleloader hunting due to the better chances of drawing a tag in my state (CO). However, I have never shot a muzzle loader before, and know very little about them at all. What I know (think I know): in CO to ML hunt it has to be open sights, no optics, and we can't use saboted bullets.

I have been looking through the Cabelas Shooting Catalog and all the options there is. If you could all chime in with reccommendations on rifles, bullets, and powder loads that would be awesome.

I think the "PowerBelt" bullets would be a good option. As far as rifles: is there a lot of difference between Knight, CVA, Vortek, and TC muzzleloaders. I don't want to get the cheapest, but not necessarily the most expensive.

THanks in advance.

swathdiver · November 5, 2013, 02:20 AM

What do you want to hunt? Deer and Elk? What is the typical range that they are taken?

Something along the lines of a Lyman Great Plains rifle, or CVA Mountain or Hawken (out of production but good shooters) will put them down with proper shot placement out to 120 yards in .54 caliber with a round ball. Pedersoli also makes some excellent rifles.

.50 caliber will suffice as well and .58 makes it easier but can be tough on slender stocks with stout loads.

Look for guns with 1:66 or similar rifling, best for round ball. 1:48 rifling is better suited for bullets.

Once you pick something, you'll have to spend time at the range developing an accurate and repeatable load.

Things you'll consider then: Optimum round ball size (.530 or .535?), patch material, thickness and lubricant, powder charge (use real Black Powder, if none in your area, order it online and have it delivered, it's well worth it!)

Sure Shot Mc Gee · November 5, 2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

If you could all chime in with reccommendations on rifles, bullets, and powder loads that would be awesome.

A privilege for me to offer a few suggestion if I may. Try to buy your powder, caps, & 209 primers locally. {that's if you intend to buy a pound or two at a time.} Not having to pay the full amount of Hazmat and shipping charge is a help in keeping powder costs down. As far as rifles. Go to a gun store and shoulder your rifle/s of choice before you buy. As they all feel different when brought up too or being shouldered. And their line of sight may vary from person to person.
On to Power Belts: No doubt about it many shooters like em. I personally feel someone who shoots Rd Ball is more likely to see better terminal performance in deer size game animals verses Power Belts. That's based on what I've seen or actually encountered. But again just another opinion in-behind all the others made on this OPs thread. How ever you proceed with your purchase be it inline or traditional. Powerbelt or P-ball. Pyrodex or Black its all good.

PetahW · November 5, 2013, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firme67

I would like to get into muzzleloader hunting due to the better chances of drawing a tag in my state (CO) - However, I have never shot a muzzle loader before.
in CO to ML hunt it has to be open sights, no optics, and we can't use saboted bullets.

As far as rifles: is there a lot of difference between Knight, CVA, Vortek, and TC muzzleloaders.

In CO, only loose powder (Holy Black or a BP substitute like Pyrodex or 777) charges must be used - pellets are prohibited.

IMO, the simplest (as in K.I.S.S.) frontstuffer system, as a very reasonable price, would be one of the .50 cal break-open inline rifles with an easily-removeable breechplug (for E-Z cleaning).

T/C's Omega line (and it's variants) are arguably the best, but others like the CVA Apex & others are almost as good.

My Omega was issued with a nice set of highly-visible fiber-optic front/rear sights, a plus for state regs forbidding optics.

.50 cal components (bullets, loading gear like a short-starter, and cleaning jags) are the most widely available - and is the minimum size for all CO big game.

.

Hawg · November 5, 2013, 08:13 PM

You could move to Ms. We don't have tags and you don't need a muzzle loader or black powder for primitive weapons seasons.

BirchOrr · November 5, 2013, 08:19 PM

A PowerBelt bullet IS a sabot. (Or at least could be considered so). Check state laws regarding this.

Birch

firme67 · November 5, 2013, 11:10 PM

thanks for the replies, I will keep researching.

firme67 · November 17, 2013, 08:25 PM

Ok. So I am still trying to decide which muzzle loader rifle to purchase. I am only interested in the new in-line style. Could you please give me any info on the advantages/disadvantages, differences, etc in the following models. They all look relatively the same to me. I don't necessarily need the best but don't want the cheapest either. However, $ is not the deciding factor. Thanks.

Thompson Center: Omega vs Triumph vs Pro Hunter
VS
CVA: Accura Mountain Rifle vs Accura vs Optima vs Wolf
VS
Vortek: Ultra Light vs Pursuit vs StrikerFire

Jbar4Ranch · November 17, 2013, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirchOrr

A PowerBelt bullet IS a sabot. (Or at least could be considered so). Check state laws regarding this.

A Powerbelt bullet has a plastic gas check/gas seal on the base of the bullet, it is NOT a sabot. A sabot is used for a sub-caliber bullet, while Powerbelts are full caliber projectiles. They were designed to consistently seal the bore using a bore rider style, high performance projectile in hunting areas that specifically forbid the use of saboted bullets. There is no way it could be considered a sabot.

shortwave · November 17, 2013, 10:58 PM

Don't believe the PB could be considered a sabot any more then any other 'full caliber' bullet with a gas check/seal. Course with some of the different screwy state laws, it wouldn't surprise me any.

Far as shooting the PB's, they shoot very well in some rifles, others not so much.

My Optima shoots them very well as did the Wolf I had. I know of two other Optima's that sling PB's very well.
NOTE: All these rifle's tend to start loosing accuracy shooting PB's with charges higher than 120grns.

The Omega I had did just ok with them but shot sabots way better. The Encore I currently have will not shoot them at all but will drive tacks with sabots.
I have not tried other 'full caliber' bullets I.E. maxi ball/maxi hunter out of the Encore.

November 4, 2013, 11:00 PM	#1
firme67 Member Join Date: October 29, 2009 Posts: 39	Muzzleloader Beginner-Need Advice I would like to get into muzzleloader hunting due to the better chances of drawing a tag in my state (CO). However, I have never shot a muzzle loader before, and know very little about them at all. What I know (think I know): in CO to ML hunt it has to be open sights, no optics, and we can't use saboted bullets. I have been looking through the Cabelas Shooting Catalog and all the options there is. If you could all chime in with reccommendations on rifles, bullets, and powder loads that would be awesome. I think the "PowerBelt" bullets would be a good option. As far as rifles: is there a lot of difference between Knight, CVA, Vortek, and TC muzzleloaders. I don't want to get the cheapest, but not necessarily the most expensive. THanks in advance.

November 5, 2013, 08:19 PM	#6
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	Thought I'd mention... A PowerBelt bullet IS a sabot. (Or at least could be considered so). Check state laws regarding this. Birch __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

November 5, 2013, 02:20 AM	#2
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	What do you want to hunt? Deer and Elk? What is the typical range that they are taken? Something along the lines of a Lyman Great Plains rifle, or CVA Mountain or Hawken (out of production but good shooters) will put them down with proper shot placement out to 120 yards in .54 caliber with a round ball. Pedersoli also makes some excellent rifles. .50 caliber will suffice as well and .58 makes it easier but can be tough on slender stocks with stout loads. Look for guns with 1:66 or similar rifling, best for round ball. 1:48 rifling is better suited for bullets. Once you pick something, you'll have to spend time at the range developing an accurate and repeatable load. Things you'll consider then: Optimum round ball size (.530 or .535?), patch material, thickness and lubricant, powder charge (use real Black Powder, if none in your area, order it online and have it delivered, it's well worth it!)

November 5, 2013, 08:13 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	You could move to Ms. We don't have tags and you don't need a muzzle loader or black powder for primitive weapons seasons.

November 5, 2013, 11:10 PM	#7
firme67 Member Join Date: October 29, 2009 Posts: 39	thanks for the replies, I will keep researching.

November 17, 2013, 08:25 PM	#8
firme67 Member Join Date: October 29, 2009 Posts: 39	Ok. So I am still trying to decide which muzzle loader rifle to purchase. I am only interested in the new in-line style. Could you please give me any info on the advantages/disadvantages, differences, etc in the following models. They all look relatively the same to me. I don't necessarily need the best but don't want the cheapest either. However, $ is not the deciding factor. Thanks. Thompson Center: Omega vs Triumph vs Pro Hunter VS CVA: Accura Mountain Rifle vs Accura vs Optima vs Wolf VS Vortek: Ultra Light vs Pursuit vs StrikerFire

November 17, 2013, 10:58 PM	#10
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Don't believe the PB could be considered a sabot any more then any other 'full caliber' bullet with a gas check/seal. Course with some of the different screwy state laws, it wouldn't surprise me any. Far as shooting the PB's, they shoot very well in some rifles, others not so much. My Optima shoots them very well as did the Wolf I had. I know of two other Optima's that sling PB's very well. NOTE: All these rifle's tend to start loosing accuracy shooting PB's with charges higher than 120grns. The Omega I had did just ok with them but shot sabots way better. The Encore I currently have will not shoot them at all but will drive tacks with sabots. I have not tried other 'full caliber' bullets I.E. maxi ball/maxi hunter out of the Encore.