Second chance for Remington, or a Mossberg?

IMightBeWrong · February 14, 2012, 08:21 PM

***To avoid the wall of text, scroll down to the bottom paragraph. Read all if you want to know the whole story.***

I've been rolling around the idea of picking up another home defense style shotgun lately. I picked up a Remington 870 about a year ago with a friend of mine who bought a similar model at the same time. We had both read nothing but good things about them and were both in the market for a home defense style platform, so we bit the bullet. Both of us also ended up having nothing but problems with them. Both guns would get jammed up every few rounds. The weapon would discharge and the pump wouldn't budge afterward. We both had to hold the pump and smack the buttstock on the ground fairly hard to get them to cycle.

He did some reading on the issue and said a common fix for the problem was to polish up the action and offered to do it on mine when he polished his. He spent hours polishing them both up and the actions were as smooth as anything I'd ever felt when he was all done. Felt fantastic and we were sure the problem had been fixed. But it wasn't, they still had the issue after putting rounds through them.

To top things off, my particular shotgun also had magazine issues. It would hold 5+1, but for some reason the magazine would get to 4 and then not let me add the last round. So I cycle out all the shells and reload and it would take all 5. And then it would do the same thing again every few times I loaded it up. Made sure the magazine tube was clean. It was. Still had the same issue. And the issues didn't stop there, both of us also had regular failures to eject. In the long run, neither of us were satisfied at all.

He went out of his way to swap out part after part to get his running reliably which took him about a month and a couple hundred dollars he shouldn't have needed to spend. Then he sold it at a loss. I had another friend looking to buy a shotgun to play around with and customize, so I sold him my 870 at a huge loss. He got it running after some pretty serious work and customizing and then ended up selling it off again as well.

So as you guys can plainly see, I've had a pretty bad experience with the 870 line in spite of it's awesome reputation. I guess a year or two ago their quality slipped.

I've been considering another shotgun lately, though. Since then I had a bad taste in my mouth from shotguns, but I'm finally getting the bug again. I thought "hell, I'll just get a Mossberg 500. They're supposedly the best alternative in the price range". So I've been out fondling them and comparing their features to the Remington. The problem, though, is that they just don't feel as nice. I actually love the lighter weight from the alloy receiver and I sort of like the location of the safety as well. But the action feels rough to me compared to the Remington and the finish looks cheaper as well.

***To put things in a nutshell: I had a HORRIBLE experience with the 870 in the past, but I'm not sure I'm crazy about the Mossberg either. I've looked at other options, but I still feel these two are at the top of their price range for a pump action home defense style shotgun. Should I give Remington another chance? Have they gotten their shizzle together? Or should I give them the hoss and grab a Mossberg?***

zippy13 · February 14, 2012, 08:30 PM

870 Wingmaster or 870 Express? They're two different guns.

IMightBeWrong · February 14, 2012, 08:40 PM

Mine was an Express, my friend got a Wingmaster with the intent to make a 28" 10+1 home defense style shotgun. It was totally impractical, but also very cool looking I must admit. Both experienced identical issues for the most part. His magazine worked well, though.

I don't get why people say that the Express model is the issue. There is no 18.5" Wingmaster model set up for defense. A home defense style shotgun (mine was actually labeled "Home Defense" on the box) should work flawlessly out of the box, so the fact that it didn't is pretty much inexcusable. But if their products are straightened out, I may give it a chance again.

M4BGRINGO · February 14, 2012, 08:53 PM

Get a Rem 870 Wingmaster, can't go wrong, I have several, all are 10 years old or much older.

IMightBeWrong · February 14, 2012, 08:58 PM

Problem with the Wingmaster is that it would take a good amount of extra money to get to the specifications I'm looking for (shorter barrel, full length magazine tube, etc...) and I'd rather not have to start swapping parts right out of the box after paying for the whole package.

I should also ask if there are any options I may not have considered. If the Winchester 1300 was still around it would easily be in the running. Is there anything on the market similar?

johnwilliamson062 · February 14, 2012, 09:38 PM

My mossberg 500 works quite well.
Switching to a semi auto Mossberg though.

zippy13 · February 14, 2012, 09:39 PM

Perhaps, instead of a custom Wingmaster, you might consider a Remington Model 870P. The Police model is neither Wingmaster nor Express. Check out Remington's law enforcement catalog: www.remingtonle.com

IMightBeWrong · February 14, 2012, 09:52 PM

870P sounds interesting. How easy is it to get one on the civilian market, though? I live in AZ, so it's definitely legal, but I know sometimes companies want to sell their police models only to LE.

EDIT: Checked into the 870P. It looks like a good option, but the price is around 600-700 dollars compared to Mossbergs and non-LE Remingtons that are similar.

30-30remchester · February 14, 2012, 10:14 PM

Threads like this really puzzle me. Do you people not realise there are more than 2 brands of shotguns?

IMightBeWrong · February 14, 2012, 10:19 PM

Of course it's realized, and I did state earlier that I was open to other suggestions, but Remington and Mossberg have excellent reputations and are extremely popular so I'm really not surprised to hear fewer recommendations for other brands.

zippy13 · February 14, 2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

How easy is it to get one on the civilian market, though? I live in AZ, so it's definitely legal

I don't have a clue. Hey, y'alls rock-n-roll in AZ, as far from SoCal as Mars gunwise.

redstategunnut · February 14, 2012, 10:45 PM

I just got a basic 870 Express with the 2 round extension. I ran 100 rounds of cheap bird shot through it, patterned my buckshot, ran one slug and became happy with my newest shotgun.

I have both 870s and a 500, and except for the placement of the safety and slide lock, I consider them more or less the same.

the rifleer · February 14, 2012, 11:15 PM

Get a 500. I don't particularly like the new express. they are heavier than the mossberg and have a rough crappy finish on the barrel.

samsmix · February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM

I have carried for protection both of the above listed shotguns, as well as a 3rd option, which I still employ. It's an Ithica M-37, with an 18inch cylinder bored barrel. It throws a tight pattern of buck. I carried it while servicing ATMs, and it now defends my house. It has also killed 4 whitetails, and a few huns and phesants, and one limit of ducks. It's only about a 25 yard gun with birdshot though, owing to it's chokeless barrel.

I have issues with the 870 for SD, even though I am a fan. If the magazine double feeds, you'd better have a good sidearm. I have a slightly lesser issue with the M-500, of which I own 3. If you run them too fast, the carrier will fail to catch the shell comming out of the magazine, and will spit it onto the ground. The Ithica M-37 is harder to break down for cleaning without tools.

I have heard good things about the Benelli plasti-pump, but have not shot a Nova, yet. I do not like the feel of the beast.

LockedBreech · February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM

My express is a nice gun, but it's a Hi-Point next to my dad's 1966 Wingmaster with wood furniture.

That gun is art. Perfection in a shotgun.

I prefer any 870 to mossy (respectfully, it's just my taste), but spend the extra money for the nicer 870 models.

I DO like the Moss 590A1 over the basic 870 express.

My no-dollar-limit shotgun choices are the 870 Marine Magnum, Beretta TX4, and Benelli M4

.300 Weatherby Mag · February 14, 2012, 11:50 PM

I wouldn't give Remington a second chance... They gave up trying to fix my new wingmaster only to send me another new gun that had to go back and have the chamber enlarged and the cartridge rim cut deepened so it would actually chamber rounds....

Quality control is non-existent...

I also have an express in on warranty work as well... It also has a bad chamber that I've been told needs a date with a reamer....

Virginian · February 15, 2012, 04:55 AM

Polishing the action parts was very unlikely to solve your initial issues and didn't. Remington has had some issues with rough chambers on the Expresses, and they seem to be made worse with the newer steel based cheap shells. I have also seen Mossbergs, Novas, and even a BPS being beat on the ground these days. I have yet to see a new Wingmaster or 1100 with an issue, but i am sure they do crop up.
If the chamber issue isn't too bad sometimes steel wool wrapped tightly around a bore brush and spun in the chamber can cure it, but the best cure is to use an automotive rear wheel drum brake cylinder hone. Honing with that type hone - about $8 at most auto parts places - will remove any ridges as well as just smoothing things up. Takes about 5 minutes. Or get Remington to fix it BEFORE the home remedies phase.
The Remington bashers love to jump on Remington's quality control, but it is a result of current management thinking just about everywhere these days. Look at Toyota's record of late, and they WERE the gold standard. Blame Harvard Management School - seriously. Cut production costs and handle any issues that get out the door via customer service. Supposedly cheaper. If you get out much or look around the internet you will quickly see that Remingtons are not the only guns with occasional issues, particularly in the lower cost models. At least Remington and Mossberg still have pretty good customer service. Beretta doesn't know how to spell "customer service".
I hate to see anyone have problems, but my sympathy is minimized when someone gets a new gun and has problems and rather than contacting the manufacturer or getting some good help they live with the problems or try some inept home fixes and then complain on the internet.

bejay · February 15, 2012, 06:42 AM

if you can live with the finish of the mossberg would probably give one a try the action will smooth up with use, maybe check out some other brands also.

Deja vu · February 15, 2012, 08:42 AM

I have had my REM 870 MARINE MAGNUM for 6-7 years now and have shot 1000s of rounds through it with out a problem. At least mine is well built.

all that said I am not a Remington fan boy. They have basically killed Marlin (one of my Favorite gun company's) and I will not buy another Remington again.

WV_gunner · February 15, 2012, 09:24 AM

I understand not wanting to use a company because you had a bad experience. I too, won't use anything Remington. Their ammo has gave me nothing but problems. I have bought 3 boxes and 2 were garbage. I've never been a fan of their guns either, just not a company I'm fond of.

Have you considered used guns? Winchester pumps in great shape go between $200-$400. And Stevens pumps go for around $200-$300 in good shape.

Another cheaper new pump gun option is an H&R. I don't know how good they are, I haven't even seen one yet. But I do know H&R/New England single shots are very nice guns, so I'm sure their pump is nice too.

PawPaw · February 15, 2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Problem with the Wingmaster is that it would take a good amount of extra money to get to the specifications I'm looking for (shorter barrel, full length magazine tube, etc...) and I'd rather not have to start swapping parts right out of the box after paying for the whole package.

Just down the road is a pawn shop with a rack full of Remington870's, both Wingmaster and Express. I can have my pick of the litter for about $200.00. That's where I'd start if I were looking for a shotgun to customize.

However, if I were looking for an out of the box, ready to run HD shotgun, I'd probably go with the Winchester 1300 Defender. It's one of the sleepers in the shotgun world. I see that they're easily available on places like Gunbroker.

upstate81 · February 15, 2012, 12:10 PM

I have 2 wingmasters but as far as a home defense gun goes I'd go for a new winchester SXP defender I have the SXP blackshadow with 28 in bbl and it is my favorite new pump. Best bang for your buck if you will. can be had for 400 or less NIB. Mine came with sling swivels and 3 chokes. The guns use the invector plus choke system. Great gun very very rugged.

IMightBeWrong · February 15, 2012, 03:18 PM

PawPaw,

I love the 1300. It's a great shotgun and would actually be my first choice, but it's been discontinued forr a few years now and I can only find them used online which makes me a little bit uncomfortable because I can't look at their condition. Great guns, though. Super smooth action.

ripnbst · February 15, 2012, 03:39 PM

Winchester's SXP is where its at. It is the newest rendition of the 1300. Get one!

If not that, maybe go a little unconventional and check out Weatherby's shotguns? I bought an Upland PA-08 and I love it. I was between this and the Win SXP but went with the Weatherby for its simplicity of design. Now I am learning that I am having a real tough time trying to find a short barrel for the Weatherby where I thought I could get one easily. I want a single reciever, dual barrel setup and I thought I'd be able to get it via buying a second barrel for the Weatherby. Cheaperthandirt had Win SXP camp/field barrel combos for under $450 but they are out of stock right now

Adrenolin · February 15, 2012, 04:59 PM

I've got a Mossberg 590A1 20" barrel, 9 rounds, parkerized finish and ghost ring sights. It had the 4-round speedstock which I replaced with a Blackhawk Compstock. Its a very impressive shotgun and a blast to shoot. The ghost ring sight are entirely worth the money! Its extremely fast and easy to target and shoot. The Compstock allows me to shoot 200+ 3" mag rounds at the range if I want without any shoulder bruising or discomfort later and I'm not a big guy at 5' 8" 175lbs.

If its only purpose is for HP and occasional range shooting the 18.5" barrel would also be great. I got the 20" because I'll also be hunting with it. First time out I was hitting soda bottles easily at 100yards with 1oz slugger slugs.

February 14, 2012, 08:21 PM	#1
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	Second chance for Remington, or a Mossberg? *To avoid the wall of text, scroll down to the bottom paragraph. Read all if you want to know the whole story.* I've been rolling around the idea of picking up another home defense style shotgun lately. I picked up a Remington 870 about a year ago with a friend of mine who bought a similar model at the same time. We had both read nothing but good things about them and were both in the market for a home defense style platform, so we bit the bullet. Both of us also ended up having nothing but problems with them. Both guns would get jammed up every few rounds. The weapon would discharge and the pump wouldn't budge afterward. We both had to hold the pump and smack the buttstock on the ground fairly hard to get them to cycle. He did some reading on the issue and said a common fix for the problem was to polish up the action and offered to do it on mine when he polished his. He spent hours polishing them both up and the actions were as smooth as anything I'd ever felt when he was all done. Felt fantastic and we were sure the problem had been fixed. But it wasn't, they still had the issue after putting rounds through them. To top things off, my particular shotgun also had magazine issues. It would hold 5+1, but for some reason the magazine would get to 4 and then not let me add the last round. So I cycle out all the shells and reload and it would take all 5. And then it would do the same thing again every few times I loaded it up. Made sure the magazine tube was clean. It was. Still had the same issue. And the issues didn't stop there, both of us also had regular failures to eject. In the long run, neither of us were satisfied at all. He went out of his way to swap out part after part to get his running reliably which took him about a month and a couple hundred dollars he shouldn't have needed to spend. Then he sold it at a loss. I had another friend looking to buy a shotgun to play around with and customize, so I sold him my 870 at a huge loss. He got it running after some pretty serious work and customizing and then ended up selling it off again as well. So as you guys can plainly see, I've had a pretty bad experience with the 870 line in spite of it's awesome reputation. I guess a year or two ago their quality slipped. I've been considering another shotgun lately, though. Since then I had a bad taste in my mouth from shotguns, but I'm finally getting the bug again. I thought "hell, I'll just get a Mossberg 500. They're supposedly the best alternative in the price range". So I've been out fondling them and comparing their features to the Remington. The problem, though, is that they just don't feel as nice. I actually love the lighter weight from the alloy receiver and I sort of like the location of the safety as well. But the action feels rough to me compared to the Remington and the finish looks cheaper as well. *To put things in a nutshell: I had a HORRIBLE experience with the 870 in the past, but I'm not sure I'm crazy about the Mossberg either. I've looked at other options, but I still feel these two are at the top of their price range for a pump action home defense style shotgun. Should I give Remington another chance? Have they gotten their shizzle together? Or should I give them the hoss and grab a Mossberg?* __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

February 14, 2012, 08:40 PM	#3
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	Mine was an Express, my friend got a Wingmaster with the intent to make a 28" 10+1 home defense style shotgun. It was totally impractical, but also very cool looking I must admit. Both experienced identical issues for the most part. His magazine worked well, though. I don't get why people say that the Express model is the issue. There is no 18.5" Wingmaster model set up for defense. A home defense style shotgun (mine was actually labeled "Home Defense" on the box) should work flawlessly out of the box, so the fact that it didn't is pretty much inexcusable. But if their products are straightened out, I may give it a chance again. __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

February 14, 2012, 08:58 PM	#5
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	Problem with the Wingmaster is that it would take a good amount of extra money to get to the specifications I'm looking for (shorter barrel, full length magazine tube, etc...) and I'd rather not have to start swapping parts right out of the box after paying for the whole package. I should also ask if there are any options I may not have considered. If the Winchester 1300 was still around it would easily be in the running. Is there anything on the market similar? __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

February 14, 2012, 09:52 PM	#8
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	870P sounds interesting. How easy is it to get one on the civilian market, though? I live in AZ, so it's definitely legal, but I know sometimes companies want to sell their police models only to LE. EDIT: Checked into the 870P. It looks like a good option, but the price is around 600-700 dollars compared to Mossbergs and non-LE Remingtons that are similar. __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝 Last edited by IMightBeWrong; February 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM.

February 14, 2012, 10:19 PM	#10
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	Of course it's realized, and I did state earlier that I was open to other suggestions, but Remington and Mossberg have excellent reputations and are extremely popular so I'm really not surprised to hear fewer recommendations for other brands. __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

February 14, 2012, 08:30 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	870 Wingmaster or 870 Express? They're two different guns.

February 14, 2012, 08:53 PM	#4
M4BGRINGO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 256	Get a Rem 870 Wingmaster, can't go wrong, I have several, all are 10 years old or much older.

February 14, 2012, 09:38 PM	#6
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	My mossberg 500 works quite well. Switching to a semi auto Mossberg though.

February 14, 2012, 09:39 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Perhaps, instead of a custom Wingmaster, you might consider a Remington Model 870P. The Police model is neither Wingmaster nor Express. Check out Remington's law enforcement catalog: www.remingtonle.com

February 14, 2012, 10:14 PM	#9
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	Threads like this really puzzle me. Do you people not realise there are more than 2 brands of shotguns?

February 14, 2012, 10:45 PM	#12
redstategunnut Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Location: see name Posts: 405	I just got a basic 870 Express with the 2 round extension. I ran 100 rounds of cheap bird shot through it, patterned my buckshot, ran one slug and became happy with my newest shotgun. I have both 870s and a 500, and except for the placement of the safety and slide lock, I consider them more or less the same.

February 14, 2012, 11:15 PM	#13
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	Get a 500. I don't particularly like the new express. they are heavier than the mossberg and have a rough crappy finish on the barrel. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM	#14
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	I have carried for protection both of the above listed shotguns, as well as a 3rd option, which I still employ. It's an Ithica M-37, with an 18inch cylinder bored barrel. It throws a tight pattern of buck. I carried it while servicing ATMs, and it now defends my house. It has also killed 4 whitetails, and a few huns and phesants, and one limit of ducks. It's only about a 25 yard gun with birdshot though, owing to it's chokeless barrel. I have issues with the 870 for SD, even though I am a fan. If the magazine double feeds, you'd better have a good sidearm. I have a slightly lesser issue with the M-500, of which I own 3. If you run them too fast, the carrier will fail to catch the shell comming out of the magazine, and will spit it onto the ground. The Ithica M-37 is harder to break down for cleaning without tools. I have heard good things about the Benelli plasti-pump, but have not shot a Nova, yet. I do not like the feel of the beast. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM	#15
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Rocky Mountain West Posts: 3,395	My express is a nice gun, but it's a Hi-Point next to my dad's 1966 Wingmaster with wood furniture. That gun is art. Perfection in a shotgun. I prefer any 870 to mossy (respectfully, it's just my taste), but spend the extra money for the nicer 870 models. I DO like the Moss 590A1 over the basic 870 express. My no-dollar-limit shotgun choices are the 870 Marine Magnum, Beretta TX4, and Benelli M4

February 14, 2012, 11:50 PM	#16
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	I wouldn't give Remington a second chance... They gave up trying to fix my new wingmaster only to send me another new gun that had to go back and have the chamber enlarged and the cartridge rim cut deepened so it would actually chamber rounds.... Quality control is non-existent... I also have an express in on warranty work as well... It also has a bad chamber that I've been told needs a date with a reamer....

February 15, 2012, 04:55 AM	#17
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Polishing the action parts was very unlikely to solve your initial issues and didn't. Remington has had some issues with rough chambers on the Expresses, and they seem to be made worse with the newer steel based cheap shells. I have also seen Mossbergs, Novas, and even a BPS being beat on the ground these days. I have yet to see a new Wingmaster or 1100 with an issue, but i am sure they do crop up. If the chamber issue isn't too bad sometimes steel wool wrapped tightly around a bore brush and spun in the chamber can cure it, but the best cure is to use an automotive rear wheel drum brake cylinder hone. Honing with that type hone - about $8 at most auto parts places - will remove any ridges as well as just smoothing things up. Takes about 5 minutes. Or get Remington to fix it BEFORE the home remedies phase. The Remington bashers love to jump on Remington's quality control, but it is a result of current management thinking just about everywhere these days. Look at Toyota's record of late, and they WERE the gold standard. Blame Harvard Management School - seriously. Cut production costs and handle any issues that get out the door via customer service. Supposedly cheaper. If you get out much or look around the internet you will quickly see that Remingtons are not the only guns with occasional issues, particularly in the lower cost models. At least Remington and Mossberg still have pretty good customer service. Beretta doesn't know how to spell "customer service". I hate to see anyone have problems, but my sympathy is minimized when someone gets a new gun and has problems and rather than contacting the manufacturer or getting some good help they live with the problems or try some inept home fixes and then complain on the internet.

February 15, 2012, 06:42 AM	#18
bejay Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2008 Posts: 195	if you can live with the finish of the mossberg would probably give one a try the action will smooth up with use, maybe check out some other brands also.

February 15, 2012, 08:42 AM	#19
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	I have had my REM 870 MARINE MAGNUM for 6-7 years now and have shot 1000s of rounds through it with out a problem. At least mine is well built. all that said I am not a Remington fan boy. They have basically killed Marlin (one of my Favorite gun company's) and I will not buy another Remington again. __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

February 15, 2012, 09:24 AM	#20
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	I understand not wanting to use a company because you had a bad experience. I too, won't use anything Remington. Their ammo has gave me nothing but problems. I have bought 3 boxes and 2 were garbage. I've never been a fan of their guns either, just not a company I'm fond of. Have you considered used guns? Winchester pumps in great shape go between $200-$400. And Stevens pumps go for around $200-$300 in good shape. Another cheaper new pump gun option is an H&R. I don't know how good they are, I haven't even seen one yet. But I do know H&R/New England single shots are very nice guns, so I'm sure their pump is nice too.

February 15, 2012, 12:10 PM	#22
upstate81 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2011 Location: NY Posts: 801	I have 2 wingmasters but as far as a home defense gun goes I'd go for a new winchester SXP defender I have the SXP blackshadow with 28 in bbl and it is my favorite new pump. Best bang for your buck if you will. can be had for 400 or less NIB. Mine came with sling swivels and 3 chokes. The guns use the invector plus choke system. Great gun very very rugged.

February 15, 2012, 03:18 PM	#23
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	PawPaw, I love the 1300. It's a great shotgun and would actually be my first choice, but it's been discontinued forr a few years now and I can only find them used online which makes me a little bit uncomfortable because I can't look at their condition. Great guns, though. Super smooth action. __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

February 15, 2012, 03:39 PM	#24
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	Winchester's SXP is where its at. It is the newest rendition of the 1300. Get one! If not that, maybe go a little unconventional and check out Weatherby's shotguns? I bought an Upland PA-08 and I love it. I was between this and the Win SXP but went with the Weatherby for its simplicity of design. Now I am learning that I am having a real tough time trying to find a short barrel for the Weatherby where I thought I could get one easily. I want a single reciever, dual barrel setup and I thought I'd be able to get it via buying a second barrel for the Weatherby. Cheaperthandirt had Win SXP camp/field barrel combos for under $450 but they are out of stock right now Last edited by ripnbst; February 15, 2012 at 03:46 PM.

February 15, 2012, 04:59 PM	#25
Adrenolin Junior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Posts: 5	I've got a Mossberg 590A1 20" barrel, 9 rounds, parkerized finish and ghost ring sights. It had the 4-round speedstock which I replaced with a Blackhawk Compstock. Its a very impressive shotgun and a blast to shoot. The ghost ring sight are entirely worth the money! Its extremely fast and easy to target and shoot. The Compstock allows me to shoot 200+ 3" mag rounds at the range if I want without any shoulder bruising or discomfort later and I'm not a big guy at 5' 8" 175lbs. If its only purpose is for HP and occasional range shooting the 18.5" barrel would also be great. I got the 20" because I'll also be hunting with it. First time out I was hitting soda bottles easily at 100yards with 1oz slugger slugs.