Auto glock question

Bonstrosity · December 12, 2005, 11:30 AM

Ok before you stop reading the post half way through and start grilling me just make sure you read to the end on this one. I don't plan on doing anything illegal and making a full auto I'm just curious about stuff on the glock. So I was surfing the web a while ago and saw those little attachements you put on the back of a glock so you can make if full auto or semi auto...my question(s) are, was this designed this way with the little piece to pull out in back just to make it for attachemts? or was it just for a full auto attachment? Have any other gun makers done this? I just find it an interesting design feature to have...make it a very versitile handgun. Semi for the general public and most LEO's but if you need full auto you can throw on this little thing and it goes to full auto mode.

SW40F · December 12, 2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

...but if you need full auto...

I'm curious. When would you need full auto in a handgun?

A hand gun is already hard enough keep in a useful group, and I don't think full auto will make it any easier...

mfree · December 12, 2005, 02:33 PM

Having shot one, I can tell you that a full-auto glock is next to unusable at more than ~5'.

Bonstrosity · December 13, 2005, 02:07 AM

yeah I guess you're right...no one NEEDS full auto a skilled marksman should be able to take a minimum amount of shots instead of going through a full loaded glock. But was this designed for the extra ability to change to full auto or was it a flaw in that they found out later that they could add a little thing on the back tomake it full auto.

shaggy · December 13, 2005, 07:30 AM

On a factory G18 the selector is part of the slide. IOW its not done by adding a part where the backplate on the slide would have been. The part that attaches to the back of the slide is an aftermarket device that just takes advantage of the way Glock designed their slide to accomodate their conversion part. A true G18 slide is beefier than a G17 slide and has the selector built in.

Jack Malloy · December 14, 2005, 08:33 AM

It sounds like the web site was mistakenly referring to some other pistol like the HK VP70.

Casp_A · December 14, 2005, 09:30 PM

Jack: no, he was talking about a Glock autosear backplate. I've never heard of any registered transferable ones and this one was on Guns America, one of the unregistered trap ones that's illegal to own at the same time as a Glock pistol.

EDIT: As Shaggy said, I think the aftermarket autosear was designed to take advantage of how the Glock slide is designed; the original back plate serves to retain the striker assembly and extractor spring.

EDIT again: does this autosear look kinda fake to anyone else? I don't wanna get in trouble for posting the mechanical details but anyone else who knows how they work will see what I mean.

Bonstrosity · December 14, 2005, 10:13 PM

Thank you Casp A for understanding what i'm talking about...I'm still kind of wondering about it though. That thing goes on the back of the slide and there is a little cap on the back that can be removed...does this cap have any other use besides putting one of these things in? Then it was obviously known that this could be used if not then it's just a coincidence that it can be removed and put in to make it full auto

azurefly · December 14, 2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Having shot one, I can tell you that a full-auto glock is next to unusable at more than ~5'.

I know that they make a shoulder stock that fits into the slot in the GLOCK backstrap. Does anyone know if that helps make it rifle-like, or at least sub-gun-like? I'm pretty sure that for some stupidass reason, even that stock attachment is NFA. :barf:

What I remember of the GLOCK 18 is that the selector is on the left side of the slide. I have never seen an attachment like the one described and depicted in this thread. Is that new? Are you saying that it can be put into any GLOCK pistol to render it select-fire?!

-azurefly

Casp_A · December 15, 2005, 12:25 AM

Yes, that cap that comes off (the backplate) is what normally holds the firing pin/striker assembly and the extractor spring in the slide. The fact that it's a convenient place to put an autosear is simply coincidence.

And this is what the normal selector on a G18 looks like:

BayouBlade · December 18, 2005, 07:16 PM

Always liking to save a few bucks, why not just wedge a toothpick in the lower right "crawlspace" of the backplate and give it a solid tap?

shaggy · December 19, 2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Always liking to save a few bucks, why not just wedge a toothpick in the lower right "crawlspace" of the backplate and give it a solid tap?

Well for one it won't work. But more importantly, even if it did work, that would be the expensive way. Unless you were a licensed manufacturer, it would be a felony under federal law and under the state law of most states. If you think the cost of registered machineguns is expenive, take a look at what a decent attorney will charge. The cost of your legal defense when you get caught will be tens of thousands of dollars, and you'll still probably end up with a felony conviction which will prevent you from ever legally buying or owning a firearm again.

Glock 31 · December 19, 2005, 10:53 AM

"The cost of your legal defense when you get caught will be tens of thousands of dollars, and you'll still probably end up with a felony conviction which will prevent you from ever legally buying or owning a firearm again."

Play with fire...

wendelb · March 23, 2011, 12:30 AM

I know this is an old thread, but I love how even with the disclaimer, NO ONE answers the question. Just throws their opinion of full auto handguns, and legality and all the crap that wasn't asked or wanted. Makes me laugh.

flyboyjake · March 24, 2011, 03:04 AM

I would love to know how the glock auto sear operates. Ive become quite familiar with the AR15 auto sear operation, but I cant wrap my head around the glock. Lets bring this thread back to life. Ill trade whatever I know about the AR if there is demand for it.

Who knows how it works? Dont give me conspiracy theories about the boogeyman man watching and writing down names. Lets have a legit technical conversation.

I dont understand how mounting a modified backplate could activate the sear. Furthermore, a glocks striker is only "half cocked" and needs the trigger pull to charge the spring enough to detonate the primer. How would an autosear do this? Im told its very simple, so maybe im just a dope...

SDC · March 24, 2011, 09:24 AM

Yes, it is very simple; the backplate conversions work by mounting a forward-pointing "wedge" off of the backplate, and the angled portion of that wedge engages the rear part of the trigger bar, so that after a shot is fired and the slide is moving back into battery, the trigger bar tries to reset as normally, but just after the barrel rises back to lock into the slide, that "wedge" forces the trigger bar down just far enough to let the striker slip off the trigger bar, firing another shot (and so on, until the mag is empty). It's simple enough that some of the "competition" triggers can produce FA fire accidentally, because there's not enough engagement between the striker and the trigger bar, so the slight rise of the slide as it goes back into battery will do the same thing.

tgreening · March 24, 2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

I'm curious. When would you need full auto in a handgun

Thats a dumb question. When you're making a movie silly.

flyboyjake · March 25, 2011, 01:05 AM

how does this charge the striker spring the rest of the way? Or does it even need to?

**JohnKSa** · March 25, 2011, 01:17 AM

If the trigger is held to the rear and not released during the firing process then the striker spring is fully compressed by the action of the slide.

As the trigger is released to the reset point, some of the compression (but not much) is released.

If the trigger is fully released then about half of the striker spring compression (by distance) is released.

So if you rack the slide on a Glock with your finger off the trigger (which is the way you should always do it, by the way

) then the striker spring is left about halfway compressed (in terms of compression distance) after that operation. The trigger action takes up the other half before the connector pushes the trigger bar down out of engagement with the striker and allows the pistol to fire.

If you're firing the Glock then the odds are you won't get the trigger released in the time it takes the slide to cycle so you'll have your finger on the trigger keeping the trigger bar in the rearward position. The action of the slide flexes the disconnector out of the way allowing the trigger bar to pop up and catch the striker as the slide comes back forward. At the point that the slide goes fully into battery, the striker spring is now fully compressed. However, normal operation requires that the trigger be released (at least to the reset point) before it can be pulled to fire the gun a second time.

The device under discussion pushes the rear of the trigger bar down independently of the connector when the slide is far enough forward that the pistol can be safely fired. However, the shooter must be holding the trigger to the rear or the trigger bar won't be far enough back to engage the device. So as soon as the shooter releases the trigger the pistol will stop firing.

flyboyjake · March 25, 2011, 01:49 PM

brilliant! That makes perfect sense...The trigger bar is not reset foreward after each cycle, so holding it back would also keel the sear rearward...the reset action only removes the the trigger bar from the ramp allowing it to spring back up and be reengaged by the striker "lug". I dont know why I pictured this before. Probably that whole dope thing. Geez this must be the easiest operating auto ever. I thought it was going to be something much more complicated than that.

I presume the select fire capability simply pulls the wedge back far enough as not in interfere with the sear on each cycle.

**JohnKSa** · March 25, 2011, 07:10 PM

That's pretty much it. You do have to modify the frame very slightly to make it work. The modification is not particularly conspicuous, but it is fairly unique. I wouldn't want to own a Glock that showed that particular modification to the frame.

David Hineline · March 26, 2011, 11:07 PM

There are men shooting machineguns and machinegunners shooting machineguns.

The two groups are very dissimilar and can not agree with the opinions of the other group.

December 12, 2005, 11:30 AM	#1
Bonstrosity Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 322	Auto glock question Ok before you stop reading the post half way through and start grilling me just make sure you read to the end on this one. I don't plan on doing anything illegal and making a full auto I'm just curious about stuff on the glock. So I was surfing the web a while ago and saw those little attachements you put on the back of a glock so you can make if full auto or semi auto...my question(s) are, was this designed this way with the little piece to pull out in back just to make it for attachemts? or was it just for a full auto attachment? Have any other gun makers done this? I just find it an interesting design feature to have...make it a very versitile handgun. Semi for the general public and most LEO's but if you need full auto you can throw on this little thing and it goes to full auto mode.

December 12, 2005, 02:33 PM	#3
mfree Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2004 Posts: 506	Having shot one, I can tell you that a full-auto glock is next to unusable at more than ~5'. __________________ "If it's rare, strange, or odd, i want it." I drank the cool-aid. Coal Creek Armory

December 14, 2005, 09:30 PM	#7
Casp_A Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2004 Posts: 495	Jack: no, he was talking about a Glock autosear backplate. I've never heard of any registered transferable ones and this one was on Guns America, one of the unregistered trap ones that's illegal to own at the same time as a Glock pistol. EDIT: As Shaggy said, I think the aftermarket autosear was designed to take advantage of how the Glock slide is designed; the original back plate serves to retain the striker assembly and extractor spring. EDIT again: does this autosear look kinda fake to anyone else? I don't wanna get in trouble for posting the mechanical details but anyone else who knows how they work will see what I mean. __________________ Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4.

December 15, 2005, 12:25 AM	#10
Casp_A Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2004 Posts: 495	Yes, that cap that comes off (the backplate) is what normally holds the firing pin/striker assembly and the extractor spring in the slide. The fact that it's a convenient place to put an autosear is simply coincidence. And this is what the normal selector on a G18 looks like: __________________ Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4.

March 24, 2011, 09:24 AM	#16
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Yes, it is very simple; the backplate conversions work by mounting a forward-pointing "wedge" off of the backplate, and the angled portion of that wedge engages the rear part of the trigger bar, so that after a shot is fired and the slide is moving back into battery, the trigger bar tries to reset as normally, but just after the barrel rises back to lock into the slide, that "wedge" forces the trigger bar down just far enough to let the striker slip off the trigger bar, firing another shot (and so on, until the mag is empty). It's simple enough that some of the "competition" triggers can produce FA fire accidentally, because there's not enough engagement between the striker and the trigger bar, so the slight rise of the slide as it goes back into battery will do the same thing. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

December 13, 2005, 02:07 AM	#4
Bonstrosity Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 322	yeah I guess you're right...no one NEEDS full auto a skilled marksman should be able to take a minimum amount of shots instead of going through a full loaded glock. But was this designed for the extra ability to change to full auto or was it a flaw in that they found out later that they could add a little thing on the back tomake it full auto.

December 13, 2005, 07:30 AM	#5
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	On a factory G18 the selector is part of the slide. IOW its not done by adding a part where the backplate on the slide would have been. The part that attaches to the back of the slide is an aftermarket device that just takes advantage of the way Glock designed their slide to accomodate their conversion part. A true G18 slide is beefier than a G17 slide and has the selector built in.

December 14, 2005, 08:33 AM	#6
Jack Malloy Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2005 Posts: 791	It sounds like the web site was mistakenly referring to some other pistol like the HK VP70.

December 14, 2005, 10:13 PM	#8
Bonstrosity Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 322	Thank you Casp A for understanding what i'm talking about...I'm still kind of wondering about it though. That thing goes on the back of the slide and there is a little cap on the back that can be removed...does this cap have any other use besides putting one of these things in? Then it was obviously known that this could be used if not then it's just a coincidence that it can be removed and put in to make it full auto

December 18, 2005, 07:16 PM	#11
BayouBlade Junior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Posts: 5	Always liking to save a few bucks, why not just wedge a toothpick in the lower right "crawlspace" of the backplate and give it a solid tap?

December 19, 2005, 10:53 AM	#13
Glock 31 Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2005 Posts: 541	"The cost of your legal defense when you get caught will be tens of thousands of dollars, and you'll still probably end up with a felony conviction which will prevent you from ever legally buying or owning a firearm again." Play with fire...

March 23, 2011, 12:30 AM	#14
wendelb Junior Member Join Date: June 8, 2010 Posts: 4	I know this is an old thread, but I love how even with the disclaimer, NO ONE answers the question. Just throws their opinion of full auto handguns, and legality and all the crap that wasn't asked or wanted. Makes me laugh.

March 24, 2011, 03:04 AM	#15
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	I would love to know how the glock auto sear operates. Ive become quite familiar with the AR15 auto sear operation, but I cant wrap my head around the glock. Lets bring this thread back to life. Ill trade whatever I know about the AR if there is demand for it. Who knows how it works? Dont give me conspiracy theories about the boogeyman man watching and writing down names. Lets have a legit technical conversation. I dont understand how mounting a modified backplate could activate the sear. Furthermore, a glocks striker is only "half cocked" and needs the trigger pull to charge the spring enough to detonate the primer. How would an autosear do this? Im told its very simple, so maybe im just a dope...

March 25, 2011, 01:05 AM	#18
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	how does this charge the striker spring the rest of the way? Or does it even need to?

March 25, 2011, 01:17 AM	#19
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	If the trigger is held to the rear and not released during the firing process then the striker spring is fully compressed by the action of the slide. As the trigger is released to the reset point, some of the compression (but not much) is released. If the trigger is fully released then about half of the striker spring compression (by distance) is released. So if you rack the slide on a Glock with your finger off the trigger (which is the way you should always do it, by the way ) then the striker spring is left about halfway compressed (in terms of compression distance) after that operation. The trigger action takes up the other half before the connector pushes the trigger bar down out of engagement with the striker and allows the pistol to fire. If you're firing the Glock then the odds are you won't get the trigger released in the time it takes the slide to cycle so you'll have your finger on the trigger keeping the trigger bar in the rearward position. The action of the slide flexes the disconnector out of the way allowing the trigger bar to pop up and catch the striker as the slide comes back forward. At the point that the slide goes fully into battery, the striker spring is now fully compressed. However, normal operation requires that the trigger be released (at least to the reset point) before it can be pulled to fire the gun a second time. The device under discussion pushes the rear of the trigger bar down independently of the connector when the slide is far enough forward that the pistol can be safely fired. However, the shooter must be holding the trigger to the rear or the trigger bar won't be far enough back to engage the device. So as soon as the shooter releases the trigger the pistol will stop firing. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 25, 2011, 01:49 PM	#20
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	brilliant! That makes perfect sense...The trigger bar is not reset foreward after each cycle, so holding it back would also keel the sear rearward...the reset action only removes the the trigger bar from the ramp allowing it to spring back up and be reengaged by the striker "lug". I dont know why I pictured this before. Probably that whole dope thing. Geez this must be the easiest operating auto ever. I thought it was going to be something much more complicated than that. I presume the select fire capability simply pulls the wedge back far enough as not in interfere with the sear on each cycle.

March 25, 2011, 07:10 PM	#21
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	That's pretty much it. You do have to modify the frame very slightly to make it work. The modification is not particularly conspicuous, but it is fairly unique. I wouldn't want to own a Glock that showed that particular modification to the frame. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 26, 2011, 11:07 PM	#22
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	There are men shooting machineguns and machinegunners shooting machineguns. The two groups are very dissimilar and can not agree with the opinions of the other group.

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