AK-47 or AR-15 - Page 5

cubesmoothie · December 11, 2009, 11:58 AM

both. But i'd get AK first , a cheap saiga. You could get one in .223 if you desire the same ammo for your ak and AR

BarryHalls · December 19, 2009, 08:59 PM

I make it a point to have as few guns in the same round as possible.

1. You want the guns to have different capabilities for different situations.

2. The more different rounds you can use the easier it is to find ammo that's useful to you in SHTF situations or even if you spot a great deal on 'ammo X' you can say 'hey, that'll be great for my 4th favorite pistol/rifle.' Inversly, when a particular type of ammo goes up in price you can still plink, hunt, or hone your skills with something that uses cheaper ammo.

Fingers · July 20, 2014, 08:34 PM

Life and the tools we use are a compromise. Just like anchors for boats.

But a little history may help.

Muskets came first in very large calibers .50 and up. The company or even battalion was the weapon. The commander was the shooter. Lined up everyone and ordered what type of fire was needed. A follow on to the old shield wall concept when lives were not long lived and very cheap (whistle up a few more peasants Jake!)

Sights were added so indirect or plunging fire became available for shooting over the hill and into the hollows. The weapons needed long range capability. Still they went from .50 Brown Bess stuff with no accuracy unless fired in mass down to the thirty calibers.

Eventually we ended up with cartridge ammunition and weapons that carried more than one round internally. The military leaders still (up until the sixties) taught shield wall type formations as they had to have an excuse for drill and ceremonies. 'Jake line these guys up and advance when the left foot hits the ground everyone shoot one bullet from the underarm assault position."

Germans figured out most battle field engagements were taking place at distances of 10 meters to 200 meters maximum and came up with the Kurz or short rounds. US And Britain missed that and kept the .30-06 not downsizing until the M14. By then the closer ranges (average for a pistol is ten feet) for a rifle 100 or less meters unless you have a handy dandy sniper attached then you are in fat city.) Along came the .223. Nice. Supply didn't come through always. The standard load out was 120 rounds the real life load out was 300 plus rounds in the Vietnam days. But the drill and ceremonies shield wall still lived with the slings placed in the wrong spot and the LBE chosen depending on which retired General designed it. Picatinny by the way did not design the LBE/rucksack combination system it was former Sgt. Tom Cook and former Sgt. Al Lowe and called the Loco Pack. Standard rule was if it was from Picatinny it was crap. Especially that chintzy entrenching tool POS.

Tactics changed and things have obviously imiproved given the dramatic drop in the friendly KIW/WIA rates. No draft was a big help but it's still there DAMN! Dupuy fox holes the idea of shooting from behind trees and rocks just like the Minute Men returned. But the point of aim is still a problem ....So there's always room for improvement. WHY would you shoot center of mass of the protective armor??????? Dumb. Belly Button to Knees with the leg bones, pelvic girdle, family jewels, intestines and all of that makes a much better sight picture and I love the sound of screaming eunuchs in the morning.

I'm wondering how much training in shooting the Army front line troops really get each year since I retired. Never mind the REMFs they have pencils. We had to bolo on purpose to get extra practice and then go shoot Expert. Exclude the Corps from this part. They are what the Army should be. Everyone a soldier first and the REMF jobs come after that.

Check this out yourself. Which half of the government party is it better to go to war under. Democrat Half or Republican Half? The ratio since WWII is 18:1 US Service personnel deaths since WWII with a Donkey in the White House versus an Elephant. There in lies the one and only difference.

The whole point is technical evolution brings changes and improves the comat soldiers lot in life EXCEPT for replacing the A10 with nothing. USAF has a lot to answer for on that one. My solution is let them go play in Space and give the Army Key West II with it's own Frontal Aviation resources like the Marines and by the way....Give the Navy Naval Infantry and make the Corps a separate Department.

We tested the M16 or Model 16 series in the swampier parts of Panama in the sixties and seventies. Like any other tool keep it clean it worked fine. Second best weapon I had after the radio. Third best was an M79.

24 years Infantry, paratroops, leg units, armored cav, airmobile and still following my oath of office - it's the constitution not the politicians. Keep the faith.

Aim for the nuts!

SGT Fingers (not an E5) but I kept the nickname

tahunua001 · July 20, 2014, 10:01 PM

THIS THREAD IS 5 YEARS OLD!
was it really necessary to bring this one back from the dead?

filthy phil · July 21, 2014, 07:35 AM

Close in i want my ak. Shoot thru cars, walls, floors koresh style, ak all the way. 556 sux on hard targets.
Over 50 yards ar15

July 20, 2014, 08:34 PM	#103
Fingers Junior Member Join Date: July 20, 2014 Posts: 3	No such thing as one size or design fits all requirements. Life and the tools we use are a compromise. Just like anchors for boats. But a little history may help. Muskets came first in very large calibers .50 and up. The company or even battalion was the weapon. The commander was the shooter. Lined up everyone and ordered what type of fire was needed. A follow on to the old shield wall concept when lives were not long lived and very cheap (whistle up a few more peasants Jake!) Sights were added so indirect or plunging fire became available for shooting over the hill and into the hollows. The weapons needed long range capability. Still they went from .50 Brown Bess stuff with no accuracy unless fired in mass down to the thirty calibers. Eventually we ended up with cartridge ammunition and weapons that carried more than one round internally. The military leaders still (up until the sixties) taught shield wall type formations as they had to have an excuse for drill and ceremonies. 'Jake line these guys up and advance when the left foot hits the ground everyone shoot one bullet from the underarm assault position." Germans figured out most battle field engagements were taking place at distances of 10 meters to 200 meters maximum and came up with the Kurz or short rounds. US And Britain missed that and kept the .30-06 not downsizing until the M14. By then the closer ranges (average for a pistol is ten feet) for a rifle 100 or less meters unless you have a handy dandy sniper attached then you are in fat city.) Along came the .223. Nice. Supply didn't come through always. The standard load out was 120 rounds the real life load out was 300 plus rounds in the Vietnam days. But the drill and ceremonies shield wall still lived with the slings placed in the wrong spot and the LBE chosen depending on which retired General designed it. Picatinny by the way did not design the LBE/rucksack combination system it was former Sgt. Tom Cook and former Sgt. Al Lowe and called the Loco Pack. Standard rule was if it was from Picatinny it was crap. Especially that chintzy entrenching tool POS. Tactics changed and things have obviously imiproved given the dramatic drop in the friendly KIW/WIA rates. No draft was a big help but it's still there DAMN! Dupuy fox holes the idea of shooting from behind trees and rocks just like the Minute Men returned. But the point of aim is still a problem ....So there's always room for improvement. WHY would you shoot center of mass of the protective armor??????? Dumb. Belly Button to Knees with the leg bones, pelvic girdle, family jewels, intestines and all of that makes a much better sight picture and I love the sound of screaming eunuchs in the morning. I'm wondering how much training in shooting the Army front line troops really get each year since I retired. Never mind the REMFs they have pencils. We had to bolo on purpose to get extra practice and then go shoot Expert. Exclude the Corps from this part. They are what the Army should be. Everyone a soldier first and the REMF jobs come after that. Check this out yourself. Which half of the government party is it better to go to war under. Democrat Half or Republican Half? The ratio since WWII is 18:1 US Service personnel deaths since WWII with a Donkey in the White House versus an Elephant. There in lies the one and only difference. The whole point is technical evolution brings changes and improves the comat soldiers lot in life EXCEPT for replacing the A10 with nothing. USAF has a lot to answer for on that one. My solution is let them go play in Space and give the Army Key West II with it's own Frontal Aviation resources like the Marines and by the way....Give the Navy Naval Infantry and make the Corps a separate Department. We tested the M16 or Model 16 series in the swampier parts of Panama in the sixties and seventies. Like any other tool keep it clean it worked fine. Second best weapon I had after the radio. Third best was an M79. 24 years Infantry, paratroops, leg units, armored cav, airmobile and still following my oath of office - it's the constitution not the politicians. Keep the faith. Aim for the nuts! SGT Fingers (not an E5) but I kept the nickname

July 20, 2014, 10:01 PM	#104
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	THIS THREAD IS 5 YEARS OLD! was it really necessary to bring this one back from the dead? __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

July 21, 2014, 07:35 AM	#105
filthy phil Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2013 Location: Tomball Tejas Posts: 105	Close in i want my ak. Shoot thru cars, walls, floors koresh style, ak all the way. 556 sux on hard targets. Over 50 yards ar15 __________________ glocks gen4 :21, gen 3 17tb, 19, 30s (×2) , sig tacpac 1911, colt 6920(x2), cia underfolder ak, npap underfolder

December 11, 2009, 11:58 AM	#101
cubesmoothie Member Join Date: June 26, 2009 Posts: 85	both. But i'd get AK first , a cheap saiga. You could get one in .223 if you desire the same ammo for your ak and AR

December 19, 2009, 08:59 PM	#102
BarryHalls Junior Member Join Date: December 6, 2009 Posts: 14	I make it a point to have as few guns in the same round as possible. 1. You want the guns to have different capabilities for different situations. 2. The more different rounds you can use the easier it is to find ammo that's useful to you in SHTF situations or even if you spot a great deal on 'ammo X' you can say 'hey, that'll be great for my 4th favorite pistol/rifle.' Inversly, when a particular type of ammo goes up in price you can still plink, hunt, or hone your skills with something that uses cheaper ammo.