Bullseye with a .30 cal Luger

spacecoast · December 28, 2014, 10:49 AM

I wasn't sure where to post this, but thought the C&R forum was as good a place as any. Doesn't really seem to fit "Competition".

After yesterday's regular NRA Outdoor Conventional Pistol (Bullseye) match at the local range, we had a 30-round "fun match" - National Match Course format (10 rounds slow fire at 50 yards, 10 rounds Timed Fire and 10 rounds Rapid Fire, both at 25 yards). My "fun gun" for the day was my .30 cal Commercial "Alphabet" Luger (manufactured around 1922 - k suffix).

I was a little apprehensive about shooting the gun in a match where reliability is paramount because I had only tried a dozen rounds each of several reload recipes in it before yesterday and had reloaded fewer than 100 rounds of .30 Luger total. I even took a 9mm Luger and ammo as a backup in case the .30s wouldn't feed reliably. However, the gun ran flawlessly for all 30 rounds using 4.1 gr. of AA#2 under the 93 grain bullets and brass I picked up from GT at the Luger Forum.

Shooting-wise, I was pretty pleased as well. Even with the typically heavy, creepy Luger trigger, 3-7/8" barrel, fixed "V" sights and lack of trigger time with the gun, I put all 30 shots on paper and had a 72 at slow fire, 87 at timed fire and 81 at rapid fire for a 240/300 aggregate. For comparison purposes, I normally shoot around 800 in a 900 match, averaging 82-85 slow fire and 92-94 timed and rapid fire with a nice High Standard .22 (iron sights).

James K · December 28, 2014, 07:38 PM

Lugers may not be the most accurate of the military and military-type pistols, but they are certainly among the best. The trigger pull is not good, but can be worked on or gotten used to, or both and generally won't be too detrimental to accuracy.

Jim

Jim Watson · December 28, 2014, 08:10 PM

I recall an article about the .30 Luger.
The owner said he shot it at ISU Centerfire alongside the usual .32 wadcutter guns. What he didn't gain by the fine accuracy of the Luger, he got by shellshock of the wad gun shooters.

Kosh75287 · December 28, 2014, 11:28 PM

I've probably shot less than 1/2 box of cartridges through a .30 Luger (this one had the longer barrel on it, and grip-safety), but it was amazingly easy to hit things past 50 yards with it. Anyway, there were many wanting to shoot it, and no plethora of rounds, but it was fun. I surmise that one was manufactured in the early or mid-70s.

I can see how the creepy trigger and poor sights might not contribute to Olympic-grade accuracy, but I sorta intuited that the mechanism would lend itself to superior accuracy (perhaps not, there's LOTS about modern firearms engineering and design that I DON'T know). I get the impression that the action is ridiculously strong, and would enable the piece to handle ammo that is well above the currently accepted level of 9x19mm ballistic performance. I've always wondered if this didn't help explain the 9x19's initially adequate performance against personnel and downloading the round to not "beat apart" 9mm pistols of less hardy constitution was contemporaneous with it being rated as "marginal" in stopping power as the years progressed.

Anyway, back to the Luger. Cool gun, wish I owned even a very beat-up one.

James K · December 29, 2014, 09:00 PM

The 7.65 Luger was the Swiss service pistol for the first half of the 20th century and was fired by both military and civilian shooters in tough competition. It was worked over by their armorers and gunsmiths to be probably the most accurate service pistol in the world.

Jim

Jim Watson · December 29, 2014, 09:47 PM

Yes.
The highly touted SIG SP47/8 - P210 was specified to be AS ACCURATE AS the old Lugers as a more modern and less expensive (!) replacement.
I bet the old guys are just sick over the P75 - P220 and are clinging to their all milled pistols.

RickB · December 30, 2014, 06:40 PM

I have a "grudge match" with a buddy each year, competing in IDPA with our Lugers. Since that accounts for 100-120 rounds, I've been shooting it only once a year!
My gun has had a trigger job, and while the sights are not easy to see, especially when the clock is ticking, I find 20-25 yard shots easier to make than with my usual competition guns.
I've been shooting 85gr XTPs, sized down to .309+", but it would be nice to find something cheaper, even if it's for a once-a-year event. I tried a half-jacketed Sierra 90gr, but it didn't feed 100%, while I've never had any functional issues with the XTPs.

December 28, 2014, 10:49 AM	#1
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Bullseye with a .30 cal Luger I wasn't sure where to post this, but thought the C&R forum was as good a place as any. Doesn't really seem to fit "Competition". After yesterday's regular NRA Outdoor Conventional Pistol (Bullseye) match at the local range, we had a 30-round "fun match" - National Match Course format (10 rounds slow fire at 50 yards, 10 rounds Timed Fire and 10 rounds Rapid Fire, both at 25 yards). My "fun gun" for the day was my .30 cal Commercial "Alphabet" Luger (manufactured around 1922 - k suffix). I was a little apprehensive about shooting the gun in a match where reliability is paramount because I had only tried a dozen rounds each of several reload recipes in it before yesterday and had reloaded fewer than 100 rounds of .30 Luger total. I even took a 9mm Luger and ammo as a backup in case the .30s wouldn't feed reliably. However, the gun ran flawlessly for all 30 rounds using 4.1 gr. of AA#2 under the 93 grain bullets and brass I picked up from GT at the Luger Forum. Shooting-wise, I was pretty pleased as well. Even with the typically heavy, creepy Luger trigger, 3-7/8" barrel, fixed "V" sights and lack of trigger time with the gun, I put all 30 shots on paper and had a 72 at slow fire, 87 at timed fire and 81 at rapid fire for a 240/300 aggregate. For comparison purposes, I normally shoot around 800 in a 900 match, averaging 82-85 slow fire and 92-94 timed and rapid fire with a nice High Standard .22 (iron sights).

December 28, 2014, 07:38 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Lugers may not be the most accurate of the military and military-type pistols, but they are certainly among the best. The trigger pull is not good, but can be worked on or gotten used to, or both and generally won't be too detrimental to accuracy. Jim

December 28, 2014, 08:10 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,545	I recall an article about the .30 Luger. The owner said he shot it at ISU Centerfire alongside the usual .32 wadcutter guns. What he didn't gain by the fine accuracy of the Luger, he got by shellshock of the wad gun shooters.

December 28, 2014, 11:28 PM	#4
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	I've probably shot less than 1/2 box of cartridges through a .30 Luger (this one had the longer barrel on it, and grip-safety), but it was amazingly easy to hit things past 50 yards with it. Anyway, there were many wanting to shoot it, and no plethora of rounds, but it was fun. I surmise that one was manufactured in the early or mid-70s. I can see how the creepy trigger and poor sights might not contribute to Olympic-grade accuracy, but I sorta intuited that the mechanism would lend itself to superior accuracy (perhaps not, there's LOTS about modern firearms engineering and design that I DON'T know). I get the impression that the action is ridiculously strong, and would enable the piece to handle ammo that is well above the currently accepted level of 9x19mm ballistic performance. I've always wondered if this didn't help explain the 9x19's initially adequate performance against personnel and downloading the round to not "beat apart" 9mm pistols of less hardy constitution was contemporaneous with it being rated as "marginal" in stopping power as the years progressed. Anyway, back to the Luger. Cool gun, wish I owned even a very beat-up one.

December 29, 2014, 09:00 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The 7.65 Luger was the Swiss service pistol for the first half of the 20th century and was fired by both military and civilian shooters in tough competition. It was worked over by their armorers and gunsmiths to be probably the most accurate service pistol in the world. Jim

December 29, 2014, 09:47 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,545	Yes. The highly touted SIG SP47/8 - P210 was specified to be AS ACCURATE AS the old Lugers as a more modern and less expensive (!) replacement. I bet the old guys are just sick over the P75 - P220 and are clinging to their all milled pistols.

December 30, 2014, 06:40 PM	#7
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I have a "grudge match" with a buddy each year, competing in IDPA with our Lugers. Since that accounts for 100-120 rounds, I've been shooting it only once a year! My gun has had a trigger job, and while the sights are not easy to see, especially when the clock is ticking, I find 20-25 yard shots easier to make than with my usual competition guns. I've been shooting 85gr XTPs, sized down to .309+", but it would be nice to find something cheaper, even if it's for a once-a-year event. I tried a half-jacketed Sierra 90gr, but it didn't feed 100%, while I've never had any functional issues with the XTPs.