Case Identification

eluce · November 25, 2014, 10:11 AM

I am trying to identify this brass case i found in a tub of brass a friend gave me. I know these pics are not great but I hope some one can help.

**44 AMP** · November 25, 2014, 11:29 AM

Measurements of the case (length, diameter, rim size, etc) would be a tremendous help.

Without them, there is really no way to be sure.

As a guess, based on the pics, it could be a .45-70 "blank", or Line Throwing Cartridge. Or it could be a shot cartridge that someone made in a .45-70 case.
it is about the right size. Or it could be some other case with close dimensions. Without measurements, you can't be certain just by eye.

I don't recognize the headstamp. Sorry.

Jim Watson · November 25, 2014, 12:14 PM

It might be an artillery ignition cartridge or "primer tube."

James K · November 25, 2014, 12:46 PM

My advice is not to mess with it. Military ammo, even small arms ammo, can contain some nasty stuff, like nerve gas or anthrax. Unknown stuff should be disposed of safely (if you know how) or turned in to the military.

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · November 25, 2014, 12:56 PM

That's a live primer cartridge for US heavy artillery using bagged powder charges.

More information here:

http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic...8143&view=next

No more or less dangerous than a blank cartridge.

No nerve gas, no anthrax, no napalm-covered flaming troll midgets.

tahunua001 · November 25, 2014, 01:03 PM

those napalm covered flaming troll midgets are no laughing matter. had a aunt's cousin's wife's half sister's uncle get hit with one of those... he didn't come out of that one pretty.

jonnyc · November 25, 2014, 02:46 PM

"Military ammo, even small arms ammo, can contain some nasty stuff, like nerve gas or anthrax" ***!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Two correct answers above...........artillery ignitor/primer. Nothing dangerous about it at all, but I wouldn't fire it in my old .45-70 Trapdoor.

eluce · November 25, 2014, 03:21 PM

Thanks for all of the replies. Thats pretty cool. I have been researching for a couple of days. Something to put in the case for a conversation piece.

James K · November 25, 2014, 07:49 PM

I'm glad to know that round is an artillery igniter and no more harmful than any small arms ammunition. But my comments were not a joke; both those substances have been used in conventional-looking ammunition, as well as such nice things as botulis toxin, PETN, and plain old TNT. Mercury fulminate is usually thought of as an old time primer material, but it has also been loaded into bullets as an impact explosive.

Jim

bedbugbilly · November 25, 2014, 08:15 PM

Now that the controversy is all solved . . .

I have a question for you military fellows . . .

I wasn't in the military and my only experience with artillery is full size Civil War Parrott Rifles and Mortors . . . obviously much different than "modern artillery".

Question - were these primers all of one size regardless of size of artillery piece or were they made in different sizes depending on bore/powder load?

Thanks.

**44 AMP** · November 26, 2014, 11:46 AM

There are different sizes and shapes. One I saw (no idea what gun it was for) was about the size of a 12ga shell, with a slight bottleneck.

Lots of different guns from lots of nations over lots of years, different sizes/shapes for different jobs.

We have small pistol, and large rifle magnum primers, same idea still working with really big guns some only firing a couple dozen pounds of powder, other firing a couple hundred pounds each shot.

jonnyc · November 26, 2014, 12:07 PM

Artillery and ordnance primers is a whole subset within the cartridge collecting world.

wogpotter · November 26, 2014, 01:21 PM

The Naval Rifles of the Great White Fleet's Armored Cruiser #6 the U.S.S. San Diego used 30-40 blanks for her 8" 40 cal main guns. I don't know about the others. They look like regular star crimped blanks, possibly with a different powder from ceremonial blanks?

November 25, 2014, 11:29 AM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,859	Measurements of the case (length, diameter, rim size, etc) would be a tremendous help. Without them, there is really no way to be sure. As a guess, based on the pics, it could be a .45-70 "blank", or Line Throwing Cartridge. Or it could be a shot cartridge that someone made in a .45-70 case. it is about the right size. Or it could be some other case with close dimensions. Without measurements, you can't be certain just by eye. I don't recognize the headstamp. Sorry. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 25, 2014, 12:56 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	That's a live primer cartridge for US heavy artillery using bagged powder charges. More information here: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic...8143&view=next No more or less dangerous than a blank cartridge. No nerve gas, no anthrax, no napalm-covered flaming troll midgets. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 25, 2014, 02:46 PM	#7
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"Military ammo, even small arms ammo, can contain some nasty stuff, like nerve gas or anthrax" ***!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Two correct answers above...........artillery ignitor/primer. Nothing dangerous about it at all, but I wouldn't fire it in my old .45-70 Trapdoor. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

November 25, 2014, 08:15 PM	#10
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Now that the controversy is all solved . . . I have a question for you military fellows . . . I wasn't in the military and my only experience with artillery is full size Civil War Parrott Rifles and Mortors . . . obviously much different than "modern artillery". Question - were these primers all of one size regardless of size of artillery piece or were they made in different sizes depending on bore/powder load? Thanks. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

November 26, 2014, 11:46 AM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,859	There are different sizes and shapes. One I saw (no idea what gun it was for) was about the size of a 12ga shell, with a slight bottleneck. Lots of different guns from lots of nations over lots of years, different sizes/shapes for different jobs. We have small pistol, and large rifle magnum primers, same idea still working with really big guns some only firing a couple dozen pounds of powder, other firing a couple hundred pounds each shot. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 25, 2014, 12:14 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,545	It might be an artillery ignition cartridge or "primer tube."

November 25, 2014, 12:46 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	My advice is not to mess with it. Military ammo, even small arms ammo, can contain some nasty stuff, like nerve gas or anthrax. Unknown stuff should be disposed of safely (if you know how) or turned in to the military. Jim

November 25, 2014, 01:03 PM	#6
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	those napalm covered flaming troll midgets are no laughing matter. had a aunt's cousin's wife's half sister's uncle get hit with one of those... he didn't come out of that one pretty. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

November 25, 2014, 03:21 PM	#8
eluce Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2014 Posts: 2	Thanks for all of the replies. Thats pretty cool. I have been researching for a couple of days. Something to put in the case for a conversation piece.

November 25, 2014, 07:49 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I'm glad to know that round is an artillery igniter and no more harmful than any small arms ammunition. But my comments were not a joke; both those substances have been used in conventional-looking ammunition, as well as such nice things as botulis toxin, PETN, and plain old TNT. Mercury fulminate is usually thought of as an old time primer material, but it has also been loaded into bullets as an impact explosive. Jim

November 26, 2014, 12:07 PM	#12
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Artillery and ordnance primers is a whole subset within the cartridge collecting world. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

November 26, 2014, 01:21 PM	#13
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	The Naval Rifles of the Great White Fleet's Armored Cruiser #6 the U.S.S. San Diego used 30-40 blanks for her 8" 40 cal main guns. I don't know about the others. They look like regular star crimped blanks, possibly with a different powder from ceremonial blanks? __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.” Last edited by wogpotter; November 26, 2014 at 01:27 PM.