Planning a hunting trip for bear and boar next year. Need advice.

[T-90]

Planning to take some friends to Nantahala National Forest in Western North Carolina. I have heard it can be rough, with thick woods, and dangerous cliffs. The plan is to go in there and do primitive style camping, and possibly fishing depending on the rules and regulations during that time of year. My goal is to hike in about 10-15 miles from the main roads and rough it. The thing is many folks I have talked to say the place is so steep and dense that the furthest shot we may get is about 100 yards at most.

So I am planning on taking my semi-auto SAR-1 Romanian AK-47 with either Hornady ballistic tips, or a heavier load with soft point ammo. In NC you can use hi-cap mags for hunting. No capacity limit on rifles in NC. So I can carry my 30 rounders.

One of my buddies was thinking of taking a bolt action or an AR-15. What kind of load would you recommend for an AR when hunting boar or bear?

Another friend of mine has Semi-AK, AR, and Mosin Nagant options. What kind of 7.62x54R cartridge would be good for boar and bear.

I am up in the air about what knife to carry. Its going to be a three day adventure. I have an old Puma white hunter, a couple of Kabars, Air Force Survival knife and a Navy dive knife. That is up in the air still.

I am hoping we can take the right loads into the woods.., I hear Nantahala can push a man...so I need to get the right idea for calibers down quick so I can focus on knives, tents and cold whether gear.

[Art Eatman]

I wouldn't even think of using a .223 for bear/hog in thick cover when starting up the learning curve in a new area. 7.62x39 would be well down on my list, as well.

Far more important are food and water. Okay, so you shoot your meat, but what about veggies, bread, cooking gear, wash water, drinking water? Right at a gallon per day per person, for drinking.

At the very least, I'd do some scouting ahead of the hunt time, basing from a pickup truck camper to start with. Topo maps, compass, all the usual Boy Scout stuff. Learn the country.

[T-90]

First question? Are you the guy who played on the Indianapolis Colts D-Line back in the 90's? There was a guy on that team with a very similar name. LOL!

I am working on the food, water and supplies right now. Looking at military surplus Gore-Tex gear, and camping supplies. Need a new mess kit, and I am getting the guys up and up on that stuff. None of them have been on a real camping trip before. I do have Appalachian trail experience, and I know land navigation. So I can get in and out of areas without a compass.

What I am wanting to do is track through the mountains and use some rock climbing and repelling concepts I have learned, to move up and down cliffs and slopes, once we get away from all the main roads.

What I am planning to do is take these guys to local state parks this spring and summer for camping, hiking, and other such fun before I take them 15-20 miles on foot into Nantahala National Forest.

I just need a good idea of calibers to line them up with. From what locals tell me they say Nantahala is so dense most shots are at 75 yards or less and anything past 100 is exceptional. So I was going to take my AK and a couple 30 round mags.

[buck460XVR]

My goal is to hike in about 10-15 miles from the main roads and rough it. Its going to be a three day adventure. I am up in the air about what knife to carry. What I am planning to do is take these guys to local state parks this spring and summer for camping, hiking, and other such fun before I take them 15-20 miles on foot into Nantahala National Forest. I can get in and out of areas without a compass

I ain't trying to be a smart-azz, but anyone thinking of taking other non-experienced hunter/campers on a 30-40 mile round trip hike deep into the woods for a combo hunt/primitive camping trip should already know what knife they need....... plus a lot more. Taking several guys and the equipment needed to camp 15-20 miles deep into very rough and treacherous terrain will take you a day to get there, and set up. Especially if you think you are going to "use some rock climbing and repelling concepts I have learned". It will also take you a day to tear down and bring it back (that includes all your garbage). That will leave you a day to learn the area around you, find the game, hunt it and process it so you can bring it back with you that 15-20 miles, all without the use of a compass.

[T-90]

Actually any of the knives I mentioned I feel comfortable with. I used to use one of those Ontario Air Force pilots knives all the time and beat the breaks out of it for farm use for over a decade. I have a new one and have already used it in the mountains with good results. The Ka-bar is popular and I have used those before with good results, and the Navy dive knife is hard to sharpen but a beast in toughness. The pre-64 German Puma is is a great knife with a sweet edge and a bone saw...but I never carried it in the woods.

I just want to rough it. Do some fishing, hunting, primitive camping, and give the ole Appalachians a challenge.

I am thinking of giving one of my buddies either my Winchester Ranger 12 gauge pump, or Spanish 7mm Mauser, and then letting the other buddy carry his M44 Mosin after we get the mag spring and front site fixed.

But in these conditions how would you guys roll? Looking for much advice and I have about 10 months to plan.

[kraigwy]

3 days with a hike of 15-20 miles, rock climbing, with two guys that have never been camping before????

Good luck.

Rifle choice is going to be the least of your problems. 15-20 miles in and out in the country you described?

I do have Appalachian trail experience, and I know land navigation. So I can get in and out of areas without a compass.

Take the compass and a 1;25000 map, GPS would be nice also.

Forget the army/air force/navy knives, take the Puma.

One thing I would add, being on the grid with inexperienced companions is a Sat Phone. Preferably one that gives your grid cord. to the called party.

No offense, with the stuff you intend on packing, you wont get in and out (15-20 miles) in three days. Let alone taking time out for bear/bore hunting, fishing, and rock climbing.

Let us know how this works out.

[T-90]

Well...you are probably right. The Puma is probably the best choice, my old man was huge into camping and stuff in the 60's and 70's and it was his favorite knife.

I figure each man can carry at least 3 gallons of water and enough dried food, MRE's to make it a few days in their packs. I am trying to keep the load out down to 70 pounds per man. I figure if we move at least 3 miles per hour then we can cover 20 miles in 3 1/2 hours. So if we get there at daybreak eat/hydrate then before noon we can set up camp near one of the water ways.

I plan on taking them on a few small trips this spring and fall before we go on this big trip.

BTW: I do plan on getting a map. I already own a compass.

[AllenJ]

I have to agree with what's being said in the above posts. Taking inexperienced people in 10-15 miles on foot, through rough terrain and dense brush it just not a good idea. You have to keep it fun for all involved and remember, if you are successful and kill a big bore or bear your in for at least one more trip in and out to pack meat. What happens if you all kill animals, you'll be packing meat until Christmas! I applaud you spirit but think you should seriously reconsider the distances you are talking about hiking in.

On the couple of backpack hunts I have done I had two requirements for my equipment: It has to be reliable. Nothing worse than getting in a few miles and have something break. The equipment also has to be lightweight. Every ounce counts when it's on your back.

I figure if we move at least 3 miles per hour then we can cover 20 miles in 3 1/2 hours.

At 3 MPH you'll cover 10.5 miles in 3 1/2 hours.

[T-90]

Ooops...my math went bad. You are right. But heck if I can get them 10 1/2 miles in that would still be good. I figures we could start working the rivers, and streams for tracks to see where the animals are going for water and then working from there. I do need to learn how to preserve meat like that over an extended period of time.

But man....some fresh boar ribs over an open fire at night would sound amazing!

[jmr40]

You don't need 3 gal of water. Water is plentiful there, buy a filter instead. You'll cut the weight of your pack in half.

I hunt just south of there in GA, right up to the TN and NC state lines at times, it is as rugged as anyplace in the west. The only difference is you won't get much over 4,000' where you could easily be twice that high in Colorado. After a couple of days to acclimate to the thinner air Colorado isn't any tougher.

No way I'd even think about the AK. I'd carry the lightest 308 or similar caliber bolt rifle I could find. When in the really bad stuff my sub 6 lb Kimber gets the nod. A typical bear is 200-250 lbs, but 500-600 bear are not uncommon. You need a bigger gun.

With a 70 lb pack, off trail you'll do good make 5 miles a day in that terrain. AT through hikers are happy to get in 10 miles a day there carrying 1/2 that weight on the trail.

Don't want to bust your bubble, but you need to be more realistic. Sounds like a great trip, I've done similar trips in the past. I've packed in 3-4 miles, set up a spike camp and hunted 2-3 days in a row before going back to a more comfortable camp.

[rkittine]

Haven't hunted anything but Woodchucks in a long time, but on my last Hog hunt, I carried an 8 3/8" Model 29 S&W and a Ruger .44 Mag Carbine. The guide had a 4" 38 Special and a Puma knife. When I got charged by a boar and was able to shot him on the run, I looked up and there was my guide in a tree smiling!. Sure glad I didn't miss.

Bob

[Snyper]

I figure if we move at least 3 miles per hour then we can cover 20 miles in 3 1/2 hours.

The only place you'll average 3 MPH is on the highway

Once you get off the maintained trails, you'll be lucky to do 1 mph, unless you count the veloctiy obtained when falling off a cliff

What will you do when you get back in there and shoot a 500 lb boar or bear?

I really don't think you've thought this through

[2damnold4this]

Depending on what the local laws are, you might be able to use the shotgun to hunt both pigs and small game by changing the load. Having a couple of different ways to purify water would be good. Filters, tablets and boiling work.

As others have mentioned, lightweight gear is important and that includes firearms. Others have already mentioned the importance of maps, compass and gps. I would hate to lose or damage a family heirloom like your Puma but that knife sounds like the best bet among those you listed.

Your idea of camping with the guys during the summer sounds great. You can find out what works for you and what doesn't before the big trip.

[TimSr]

I figure each man can carry at least 3 gallons of water and enough dried food, MRE's to make it a few days in their packs.

This one confirmed my suspicions.

Nobody carries 24 lbs of water unless they are crossing the dessert. Add an AK and 60 rounds of ammo, and you're already a heavy load to tote. Then you're going to plus food, bedding, cooking gear, etc.

I'd suggest water purification tablets or a hiker's filter, just for starters but really, I think you should should for something a little more entry level for camping, hiking, and hunting, etc. Apparently you are the most knowledgeable of the group, and two other people's survival will be in your hands. That should not be taken lightly.

Your AK or AR will be okay on smaller hogs, but I wouldn't carry either for bear. After you shoot a bear, then what?

Take your buddies for a nice fun camping weekend at one of the National Forest campgrounds. Pick one with legal hunting area that you can walk to on foot from your camp. Go hunt hogs with your existing weapons. Learn to hunt and camp. If you enjoy hog hunting then consider getting a bear gun, and a bear tag in the future. Start simple, learn the basics along the way, gradually take on greater challenges after you master the basic ones.

[Jeffm004]

Go do it. Come back alive, with better stories than the rest of them. Yes you might die. Most likely just be really miserable. I envy your drive and opportunity.

[hartcreek]

It is doable but most likely I see your group on the news with one of you lost or dead. What you are proposing has a steep learning curve. I encounter hunters like you most every year. As for repelling cliffs forget it.

Start with a GPS map program and Global Earth and find a trail route that has the least problems and you had better figure on five days not three.

Your statment on three gallons of water and not knowing even which knife to carry tell me that the most experienced one has a long way to go yet.

Weigh the firearms you have available you aint gonna carry a heavy M44 in that far. Myself I would hunt with a handgun probably a .44 magnum or my 624 as I have shot loads for grouse and hardcasts for bear and hog.

For fishing gear I have several pack rods that convert for spinning or fly fishing but I have done just as good with a six foot willow stick and a short wet fly line.

[reynolds357]

I shoot hogs quite often with a 5.56. It works OK for shooting hogs. In my opinion, a heavier bullet works much better. There is no way I will intentionally hunt anything with a 5.56 that might try to eat me.

[Art Eatman]

Off of jeep trails? Blind luck, grim determination and excellent physical condition to make two miles per hour.

I've found that in brushy country, cross-country walking-hunting with a light load is maybe two miles an hour. And there's no such thing as straight-line travel in woods or on game trails. Comparatively, the Appalachian Trail is a highway.

[T-90]

Thanks for all the advice guys...I really appreciate the insight. Yesterday I talked over somethings with the fellows. We started doing the math on water and weight and I realized 3 gallons was a bit much. Don't know what I was thinking.

@jmr40 You mentioned something about filtering water. Can you suggest equipment or technique for this. I remember as a teenager when my family hit the Appalachian Trail, that a time or two we did find fresh drinkable water coming out of the rocks. I remember my stepdad boiling water after straining it but I admit I forget how he did that step by step. I am interested in learning more about this filtering.

The reason for the knife question was because I am not sure I want to take the Puma. I inherited the knife and would be heartbroken if I lost it...though it is a superior woodsman, and bushcraft blade. I have used the Air Force Pilots knife for years as a work knife, and used it last time I was doing trout fishing up in the Smokies.

As far as rifles go. One of the guys and myself went to Gander Mountain today to look at some rifles. He told me he was thinking .308 and he looked at a Remington, until he saw a Remington 700 in 7mm Remington Mag, and now he is leaning towards that.

The other guy is leaning towards either an AR-15 or his Mossberg 12 gauge. From reading what some of you are saying...I might but my AR build on hold and look for a good bolt gun. I need to educate myself better on commercial hunting weapons. Always been more into military surplus and military semi-automatics.

@reynolds357, what kind of 5.56/.223 loads do you suggest for the AR-15? My buddy said he had some soft point ammo but I can't remember if he told me what grain they were.

Another big question is the food concept. I was thinking MRE's but one of the guys I talked to is thinking about canned food. I feel that is heavy and would create to much trash. Any ideas or suggestions on food would be helpful.

Both guys are looking into GPS units, I am still old school compass and map kind of guy.

Anyway going to be shopping for mess kits, wool blankets, clothing and ordering a map of the National Forest. BTW: I notices some of the sites like Cheaper than Dirt, and Sportsmans Guide often times have military surplus clothing with Gore-Tex features. Decent stuff? Or should I look else where?


@TimSr you are right and I need to think about that more. You know about "two other people's survival in my hands".One of their G/F's isn't to excited about the idea and is afraid her fellow is going to get lost or killed. She has already put responsibility on me if something happens. So my plan for spring and summer is do some local hiking, camping, and night fishing trips that are more family oriented, where everyone including the G/F's and kids can come along. Build confidence and stuff so we can practice some basic things, and the females don't worry so much. I don't know why but women tend to worry to much at times. LOL

[Art Eatman]

The 7 Maggie is great--if your need is for deer/elk at 400 yards or more. For the up close and personal of under 200 yards, it's more recoil than utility.

Knife? I've never used more than a 4" blade. Main thing is a small stone to touch up the edge, as needed.

A cheap, jointed cleaning rod and some patches, if by accident the muzzle gets plugged from a stumble/fall.

[hartcreek]

Broken case extractors are inexpensive and light. You sure do not want to go all that way into the sticks and be sidelined because of a case seperation.

Some of the Sportsmans Guide stuff is fine you have to watch everything.

Water disinfectant tabs are an easy fix for on the go water. I always have half a dozen in a small piece of foil in my pants pocken when I am hunting.

There are plenty of videos on youtube to watch for doing things right. wilderness outfitters is one good place to start bushcraft bartons has some good ideas along with some failures.

Another good source of info would be your grandfathers Boy Scout Handbook.

[Jeffm004]

If it was me, and I really thought I was going to shoot a pig, I'd pack a utility knife full of blades, and maybe a small stone.

When Boy Scouts train for Philmont they have mandatory training hikes. About three, hiking with gear. Not a bad idea.

I don't know where you are going but if there is a waterway in, buy a canoe.

No matter how light you pack you WILL decide to leave stuff in the car. Do not leave the first aid kit.

Back before all the tech stuff we boiled the water and flavored it with Kool-Aid.

It sounds like a hoot - and I'd surely bet on the pigs. In the day I took a .22 pistol for squirrels and bunnies. I never took a rifle. No pigs.

Out of the box. Bring just one rifle for pigs, a .22 for the other guy so you actually eat. I'm just telling you heavy does not get you to 10 miles, up hill both ways.

[FITASC]

I figure each man can carry at least 3 gallons of water and enough dried food, MRE's to make it a few days in their packs. I am trying to keep the load out down to 70 pounds per man.

70# up and downhill is quite a load; even if that also includes the weight of any boar/bear. You and your friends better be in Navy Seals condition. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. The sat phone giving out GPS mentioned above is something that should be a given.

[buck460XVR]

A personnel filtration straw can be had for less than $20.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/EARTH...3752738&rid=20
Or one can carry a small bottle containing bleach and an eyedropper. 48 drops will disinfect even the cloudiest 3 gallons of water. If you are boiling water for MRE's you already have a way of purifying your water. If you are healthy adults, you can go three days(the length of your trip) without additional water if you are hydrated to start with.

Personally, I would rethink your initial plans. I would not be as concerned about getting 20 miles in as I would about having success while hunting. Taking a day to hike in and a day to hike out, does not leave much time for scouting, hunting and processing any game if you are successful. You'd be better off to hike in 1 mile and hunt for three full days. I also would be more concerned with having the correct first aid/survival supplies if me and two friends were hiking 20 miles deep into the wilderness than what knife or mess kit I had on me. I'd also be more concerned about the actual location of the game animals within an area than getting in "deep". Many times, I have found good spots on public land that was relatively close to a road or trail, that did not require I hike 20 miles and still gave me relatively good success. It also made it easier to get the animal out after it was harvested. Many times when I see folks going in "really deep" in big woods, while they are a great distance from their point of entry, they are actually close to another point of entry. IOWs, they've gone so deep, they're coming out the other side........


I suggest you tone down the extremes of your trip. If you really want hike deep and camp primitively, while repelling and rock climbing, over a three day period, leave the hunting out of it. If hunting bear and hogs for only three days in an area you know nuttin' about is your priority, spend more time scouting an area that takes a shorter time to get to and spend more time hunting than hiking. Especially if the two friends you are planning to take along are inexperienced in either or both. Have you and your friends hunted bear and hogs before?

[FITASC]

Especially if the two friends you are planning to take along are inexperienced

And even more critical if YOU get hurt badly enough and then they have to figure things out or perform some serious first-aid. That would not be a good time for them to try and learn orienteering and basic first-aid.