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Old March 19, 2006, 10:24 AM   #1
BamaMac54
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Surplus Rifle Question

Hey folks, I'm about to have an extra $400 to spend and was looking into some inexpensive fun. Has anyone ever order anything from Classic Arms? www.classicarms.us . Also, what's the difference in the M38 and M44 Nagant rifles? I'm just trying to figure out what I want. What calibre are they in?
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Old March 19, 2006, 10:41 AM   #2
TJ Freak
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Milsurp

Not sure of the difference in a 38 or 44 but I would guess years made. AIMSurplus also carries Military Surplus arms. Got a K-31 from there, very pleased with the gun. The Mosin Nagant is a 7.62x54 caliber.
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Old March 19, 2006, 10:41 AM   #3
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I haven't ordered from classicarms.us, but I've heard one or two positive reports (and no negative reports). Comparing to AIM and SOG, the prices seem just slightly higher. But they do have a lot of neat stuff.

The basic difference between the Mosin M38 and M44 is that the M44 was equipped with a spike bayonet. Otherwise they're pretty much identical. I believe the M38 is somewhat more rare. Unless you really like bayonets, I'd recommend getting the M38 for the lighter weight. The 54R cartridge can be very stout, so expect quite a lot of recoil (and possibly a nifty muzzle fireball) out of these short carbines.

$400 can buy a lot of milsurp! You could get yourself a very nice M38, Yugo SKS, and Swiss K31, including FFL transfers and shipping. Good luck!
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:33 AM   #4
FirstFreedom
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on the 38 vs. 44, IIRC, they are the same rifle, except one has a bayonet and one doesn't.

I'd find a K31 swiss rifle for around $125 (up to $175- $200 for a really nice one), and have a lot left over for P11 ammo! (or to grab a mosin, mauser, & enfield to go with).
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:46 AM   #5
Toney
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All it takes is one!!! the rest will follow
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:54 AM   #6
ChrisTx
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for $400, the garand should be the first thing on the list.
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Old March 19, 2006, 01:44 PM   #7
DAWGTRAXX
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+1 on the Garand or the K-31...Enfields are nice also
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Old March 19, 2006, 03:24 PM   #8
kymasabe
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My first is M44 as well. I'm hooked. I'm trying to unload my Kel-Tec Sub2000 9mm rifle so I can get another mil.surp. I paid $79 for mine in very good condition, had some cosmoline to remove but not much, most was gone already. Fired some new Wolf con-corrosive ammo thru it yesterday. Only got to 25 rounds before my shoulder was so sore, I had to stop. I HIGHLY recommend some kind of recoil pad. 7.62x54R will definately wake up everyone on the firing line! The guy next to me damn near crapped himself when I fired my first round. The muzzle blast was quite pronounced during the day, I can't wait to fire this thing at dusk to really see the flames. My only regret is not knowing more about the gun before I bought it. I would have prefered the M38 without the bayonet.
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Old March 19, 2006, 03:25 PM   #9
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oops, double post, sorry.
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Old March 19, 2006, 03:45 PM   #10
SIGSHR
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The Mosin M-1944 carbine has a permantly attached folding bayonet. It attaches with a screw if you go to a range where they make a fuss about
bayonets.
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Old March 19, 2006, 05:02 PM   #11
keebo52
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Classic arms and mosin nagants

I've bought from Classic arms several times with no problems. As for which milsurp rifle to get, get one of each. I have M38, M44, K31 and Enfield No.5. I love them all but my favorite shooter is the M38. It's fun to shoot, fairly accurate and the surplus ammo is dirt cheap. (It is corrosive so be sure to clean properly afterwords.) Also, my M38 is a little more accurate than my M44s and you don't have the problem of the bayonet. The M44s are sighted in with the bayonet extended, so you have to resight if you don't want to shoot with the bayonet extended.
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Old March 19, 2006, 05:21 PM   #12
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Hey KEEBO...

Regarding sighting in the M44 with/without the bayonet...I shot 25 rounds yesterday, some at 100 yards and others at 50 yards and I have NO idea where my shots were going, I only hit the paper once. I was shooting with the bayonet folded and will probably remove it for my next range trip. How does the bayonet affect accuracy? I've heard it changes the harmonic of the barrel but have no idea if my shots are going left/right/up/or down of POA. I've also read that M44's all shoot high, aprox 10 inches high at 50 yards and 5-8 inches high at 100 yards. Didn't read that until after my range session. Was so frustrated, am considering buying a bore-sight so I can see where I'm shooting - vs - aiming. I think my front sight might be off a little. Standing, I can hit the paper at 50 and 100 yards with my little Kel-Tec 9mm sub gun, but couldn't hit the same targets with the M44 on a rest.
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Old March 19, 2006, 05:59 PM   #13
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move closer

If you can't hit the paper at 100, move closer. 50, or even 25. even 10 if that is what it takes to hit the paper. Then, when you know where the bullet strikes away from the aiming point, you can make corrections in the sights.

as for a first milsurp rifle, I don't know if one of the Russian carbines is the best choice. They are loud, and kick a bit. Some will shoot reasonably well, and some won't. Actions can be stiff to work, triggers can be long and hard, and 7.62x54R ammo comes in a wide variety of quality. All of which can make even a decent rifle hard to shoot. On the plus side, the rifles are cheap, and so is the milsurp ammo. Negative - corrosive ammo.

Mausers and SMLEs are often nice, some are exellent. But cost more to buy and shoot. The Swiss (K 31) are often good to exellent, and usually very accurate with the swiss match ammo. Downside, more cost than the Russian/chinese bolt guns. So what is most important? Cheapest blaster possible or something else?
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Old March 19, 2006, 06:05 PM   #14
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barrel harmonics

kymasabe, The bayonet does effect the barrel harmonics. Remove it before going to the range and shoot a few rounds at 25 yards. The bayonet usually effects the windage more than the elevation but it can effect both. At 25 yards you can get an idea of where the rounds a hitting.
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