Best set-up for wet tumbling

[Lurch37]

I did a quick search but if this is a repeat of a similar topic that is up to date please lead me there.

I would like to try wet tumbling and I have read that the FART is the way to go for the actual tumbler. Some say pins but some say no pins, this could also be affected by de-priming first. If you de-prime first do you dry tumble so as not to run dirty cases thru the die? The different cleaning solutions seem to be personal preference. What about drying the cases once done, does one need a machine to do that? I've seen outside air drying but most of my reloading is done in the winter so the temperature might not allow that.

The other aspect would be the bench set-up. Are you guys near a sink with a large table for sorting out the pins and cases? A magnet seems a useful tool as well. I reload all different sizes of cases, some on a single stage and some on a Dillon and currently doing this in the basement, where I have electricity but no water or drain. Anything else I missed?

[ghbucky]

Here is how I handle it:

I use the FART (as I recently learned it is called!) and I tumble with pins. I emphatically recommend that you DO NOT tumble with pins in cases that have not been deprimed. I did that once, and after fighting the pins wedged in the cases that I couldn't access because the primer was still there I will never repeat that mistake.

If you want to tumble cases without decapping first, I recommend doing it without pins, then decapping and tumbling again with pins.

My tumbler is near my bench in the basement, but I don't have a utility sink. So I haul the drum up to the kitchen sink to fill with water, back down to the basement to the tumbler. When it is done, I haul it back upstairs and drain it in the toilet.

I recently found that Frankfort Arsenal has a new cap for the FART that is a fine mesh screen. That was a revelation to me, because I had previously been carefully draining it through a colander so I wasn't fishing pins and cases out of the john.

(Got to get a dang utility sink installed so I don't have to cart that full drum up and down stairs!)

FA also makes a media magnet that is an absolute must have to handle the pins. It has a release handle so you can move the pins where you want them and drop them there.

I dry everything out by dumping the whole load onto a couple of towels spread on my workbench and spreading it out so that it is fairly even, then leaving them to sit for 3 or more days. Case dryers do exist, and I have also heard of people spreading the cases onto a baking sheet and putting them in the oven on its lowest setting for a few hours.

When your cases are dry, you will want to inspect each one to make sure not pins are hanging out inside the case (the FA pins like to get crosswise in 9mm cases) and the primer holes.

[edit] You asked about depriming dirty cases: I use a dedicated RCBS universal decapping die for that, so I'm not running dirty cases into my sizing die. When I size my cases, they are clean.

[Marco Califo]

I think the original FART, which is large, is the best deal. I do have the FA media separator kit, and I find the media screens that fit in 5 gal bucketsFrankford Arsenal Standard Media Separator ($10 @ MidwayUSA) very useful, I have 3. If you are going to tumble with pins you NEED Releasing Magnets. Harbor Freight has a 2' long one!

[jetinteriorguy]

I’ll relate my method and why I prefer it. I use a Harbor Freight dual drum tumbler, mainly because it’s cheap and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to invest in this method before determining if I’d like it. It works great but you’re limited to doing smaller amounts because of the drum size, no matter to me. For me the pins would just be a messy PITA so I don’t use them, and my brass doesn’t need to look like brand new. I use a squirt of Dawn and about 1/4 tsp of lemishine which will do about 150-9mm or 100-.357mag in these drums. I fill them with hot tap water and tumble for an hour with cases deprimed. They come out about 95% clean and shiny outside and about 50% clean on the inside with a fairly minimal bit of residue left in the primer pockets. I then pop them in the oven on a dedicated cookie sheet at 175deg for a half hour to dry. As a last step I tumble in my vibratory tumbler with crushed walnut and some Nufinish added to put a final shine on and a coating to keep them shiny for a long time. For rifle I have one added step, after sizing I run them through the wet tumbler one more time with just Dawn to clean off the lube and I extend the oven time to an hour. This is just my method and meets my criteria.

[Rimfire5]

ghbucky,

You might try this approach for water movement to your FART.
For years, I have used a large empty plastic jar that came with Hard Pretzels to carry water to my FART. It fills the FART containing Lemishine, Dawn soap and a spritz of dish washer rinse solution as well as the pins and still has enough left over in the plastic Jar to rinse the FART after I spill out the pins and soapy water into a bucket.

The rest of your approach is just about what I do as well.
Works for me too.

[Shadow9mm]

I use a fart. Works great. Pins are a royal pain, some get loose every time. I also found they can leave small scratches on the cases making them harder to resize.

Currently im using the fart with the frankford arsenal cleaning packets. They work great. I do a final rinse with distilled water as i have hard water and it leaves hard water spots on my cases. After that they go in the oven at 175f for 1hr for quick drying. You can also leave them out to air dry, for me that takes about a week.

Also, i deprime before tumbling, mainly because the water drains out a lot easier.

[MarkCO]

Large FART, decapped cases. Cold Water, 9mm case of Lemishine, 2 ounces of Woolite Dark. That mixture is pH balanced, cleans well and no chance of dezincification. My cases are very clean. I run that for 90 minutes. Drain, cold water rinse for 10 minutes, drain. I dump the cases into a large plastic container with holes in the bottom. That sits on top of a 5 gallon bucket that is bolted to a wood plank on which a 4" duct fan is cut into the bottom of the bucket. Plug in the fan, next morning, dry and clean.

Pistol, with spent primers, I still use Lucas Oil polish in corn cob.

Those methods work the best for me.

[jpx2rk]

I have the large/original FART and the smaller FART as well. The smaller one works better for me due to the smaller batches that I deal with. I'm retired, so I have the time.

Buy a decapping die and then you don't have to worry about using/dirtying up a sizing die, it only takes a few minutes to decap depending upon the volume. I have found that cleaning the pockets with a cleaning tool on a motorized prep center BEFORE going into the FART works better for me. The pocket residue that the pins don't remove is harder to deal with after the wash and dry cycles. JMO. IF the brass is really grungy/range pickup, etc., tumble in dry media to get rid of some of the grunge before decapping.

I have never had any stuck pins in any brass, but I only shoot 20's and 22's for the most part.

I use the FA wet/dry media separator and the tubs (it's a kit) and it works well, changing the rinse water several times, and I change the spin direction abruptly during the rinse cycle to shake any pins loose.

I set my FART up in the garage to avoid the noise from it and the wife, and it's close to the kitchen so I have hot water to make up the Dawn/Lemishine solution. When the wash cycle is over, I just drag the garden hose and media separator over to the edge of the driveway, a seat and start the rinse cycle. I lay the wet brass out on towels on the driveway for a few hours, and it dries on it own. I do have an offbrand dehydrator with 4-5 trays that I use during cold weather to dry the brass.

[ghbucky]

One additional tip:
Make DOUBLE sure the cap on the 'bottom' is well and truly sealed up tight before you start filling it with water on the other end.

[Lurch37]

I appreciate all the replies and look forward to trying this out.

I have a utility room that is upstairs where I could do the wet tumbling and be near a sink. I hate the idea of carry things up and down any more than necessary.

[ghbucky]

Originally Posted by Rimfire5

ghbucky,

You might try this approach for water movement to your FART.
For years, I have used a large empty plastic jar that came with Hard Pretzels to carry water to my FART. It fills the FART containing Lemishine, Dawn soap and a spritz of dish washer rinse solution as well as the pins and still has enough left over in the plastic Jar to rinse the FART after I spill out the pins and soapy water into a bucket.

The rest of your approach is just about what I do as well.
Works for me too.

Thanks for the tip!

[akinswi]

I stopped using lemi shine, My cases started to tarnish faster. I just use Ajax and pins. But every one has there own recipe.

Now, to case drying. You can buy expensive dryers, I have one sitting on the shelf I never use. You can use an oven on low heat or outside but drying is never fun.

I actually dry my cases in my corn cob media, I tumble them for a few hrs no hard water stains and very little dust. They come out extremely clean

If your shooting pistol, Wet tumbling brass I think in my opinion is an absolute waste of time especially 9mm. Just dry tumble them deprime and load em

[ghbucky]

I claim no expertise, but just the potential of this is enough to stop me in my tracks:

Dry tumbling fired cases that have not been cleaned may.. may, create airborne lead residue dust.

So, I decap, and wet tumble with citric acid to deal with any potential lead residue on the cases to avoid any potential of airborne lead in my home.

I'm sure there are folks that will say that this isn't an issue. But AFAIC, I can take a few simple steps and just avoid the issue altogether. I know a lot of folks here like to take steps to make sure their cases are nice and shiny. I do not care how they look, I just want to make sure I'm not handling cases with lead residue on them.

My normal routine was to wet-pin tumble a couple hundred cases at a time. That worked great. But I recently stepped up to a progressive press and the volume has sort of caught me off guard. Now I'm dealing with 800-1000 cases at a time. I tried tumbling 800 cases in the FART and the water volume apparently just isn't enough to take the case residue into solution, so I still had dirty cases even after tumbling for 4 hours and running clean water into it 2x for around 20 minutes.

I've put the whole mess back into the FART and set it for another 4 hours with another dose of fresh water and FA cleaning solution. It seems that the water capacity in the large drum just isn't enough to deail with 800+ fired 9mm cases.

[RC20]

I have gone to the wet side of the force.

What I found was (I have the uber expensive CED Brass tornado system) that pins work fine, unless you are dealing with a .20 (6.5mm) caliber then they stick sideways in the mouth of the case. All pins are 1/4 inch long so you cannot order shorter ones (in 30 cal I shoot they are fine)

So I got chips and a second tumbler and I tumble with the Chips in 6.5 and it works good.

I have not tried no media.

As for setup, I use the sink, rinse out the crud, rinse out the sink, then use a caulder to pour out and get the brass.

I have a dryer from CED as well but a fruit dryer from your local store will do just fine as well.

I have a Brass polisher system and I use that at times as well.

[Lurch37]

That tornado is an expensive little buggar.

[Marco Califo]

Ghbucky -

Now I'm dealing with 800-1000 cases at a time. I tried tumbling 800 cases in the FART and the water volume apparently just isn't enough to take the case residue into solution, so I still had dirty cases even after tumbling for 4 hours and running clean water into it 2x for around 20 minutes.

Yeah, I experienced they same thing trying to tumble 1,667 (1/3 of 5000) of NATO 9mm. The water or solution has limits. They fit, with the pins, but did not come nearly as clean as I had hoped. I had to tumble several times. Even then, on the last third, I dry tumbled with primers in, so I could handle cleaner cases for depriming. I formerly used dry tumblers and was quite familiar with the dust and counter measures. The FART dry tumble did not produce dust to speak of. I used media that had been used before and was one tumble from the toxic waste bin. Those cases had been wet tumbled, but did not get clean enough that way.
I do not want to do that again, but if I did and had dirty USGI range brass, I think I would try dry tumbling with walnut as an initial step. Years ago I used a 5 gallon bucket, put the brass is, added a dishwashing machine pod and hot water, and let sit, occasionally switching (pouring) to a different bucket.

[Reloader2]

I found a large preowned Lortone tumbler available locally for a good price. Separating pins was a PITA but I’ve got a method that works for me.
I purchased a large frying pan from Goodwill and a wire basket from the Dollar store.

Put the frying pan in the sink, and put the brass and pins into the wire basket while holding it over the frying pan.
Under running water I swish the brass around in the basket and mostly all of the pins go into the frying pan.

I do lots of 9mm brass and find this works well and while I do get the occasional missed pin amongst the brass, I catch that while doing case inspection when priming.


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[ghbucky]

Has anyone tried the FA media seperator for pins? Is it worth it?

[Marco Califo]

I have the FA separator. IMO it is not good with pins. Or maybe I am over loading it.
Midway sells a $10 plastic collander that fits over a 5 gallon barrel. Buy 3. The pins fall out the holes. I them for dry media too. Pour back and forth. Move them around with your hand. You may still need to dump a couple out.
That $10 separator is made by FA.
Frankford Arsenal Standard Media Separator
Product #: 731116
Manufacturer #: 121925
Price: $9.99
Available
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012721458?pid=731116

[jpx2rk]

See my comment above above about the media separator. I like the way it works and the end result when using SS pins. I have not found a pin in any case after using the separator when processing the brass after drying

[RoyceP]

I got the big FART recently and tried it for the first time yesterday. With the FA juice and no pins I liked the way the brass looked after an hour of tumbling. I let it air dry and then put the cases in my Lyman vibrator with some pecan shell media and a bit of Simichrome polish for a couple hours.

I did not deprime the cases.

Got more FA juice on order.

[ghbucky]

Originally Posted by jpx2rk

See my comment above above about the media separator. I like the way it works and the end result when using SS pins. I have not found a pin in any case after using the separator when processing the brass after drying

Thanks. I guess I'll check it out.

[RC20]

Yes the Tornado is expensive, but my brother does great research and rather than try one I was not sure of, I went with that. I don't think I ever regretted getting too good vs not good enough (defined as I did not like it that well or it did not work out to full satisfaction)

I got to see his operation and found no lack of clean.

He on the other hand never got the LabRadar but has used mine a few times to confirm his velocity. If it reads its accuracy is extremely accurate so its a no question.

In the case (pun) of the Tornado, rather than move media around I went with a second tumbler.

My brother has no issue with 6.5 cases but when they stick, they go cross wise in the neck and are not coming out without prying. Often the cases get full of pins as well so its a wet mess and not cleaned.

No reason they could not cut pins to a couple of different lengths but do not, at least last look they were all .250 or so.

So the chips work fine for the smaller 6.5 cases and the pins work fine for the 30 caliber stuff I shoot.

A lot of this is satisfying yourself for what works for you. I am happy with the setup other than the pin stick and I solved that.

[JKP]

I use the FA small wet tumbler with citric acid powder, Dawn, and Southern Shine chips. I deprime first. Afterwards, I use the FA wet media separator. I think it's overpriced, but works so well, I like it. After drying for 20 minutes in an old toaster oven at 180 degrees, I check for split cases. Because the brass is so clean, I lightly lube with lanolin/alcohol lube before sizing. The sizing phase includes priming and case expanding with the Lyman M expander. After this, I dry tumble in corn cob with a little car wax. This removes the lube and keeps the brass from tarnishing. Then the cases are stored until I'm ready to add powder and bullets.

[oldmanFCSA]

I run 4 Thumler Tumbler barrels at once on a home made setup using a 1/4HP motor with a 2" drive puley, a 12" driven pulley mounted on pipe resting in pillow block bearings from Fleet Farm stores. Tygon tubing over pipe works as drive wheels.

Fill barrels 1/2 full with de-primed brass, full within 1/2" of top with water, add a small circle of Dawn, and a splash of LemiShine. Tumble 3-5 hours.

Dump into RCBS media separator, rotate while drenching with water, dump cases into collator, air dry with my home built turbo fan motor (will float 9mm & 45 cases out of collator if not covered with screen material) timer on turbo fan allows un-attended operation and ensures brass will be dry and ready to re-load.

But I have been reloading 50+ years and have adapted equipment to my needs.
These days I shoot more target 50BMG rounds than 223Rem rounds - embarrassing isn't it.