Shooting at an oncoming car thats trying to hit you - Page 3

TX_QtPi · October 26, 2011, 01:59 PM

I would take a defensive stance right in front of the car and give the driver "the look", as the car approached I would run towards it, throw my purse up in the air, step onto the bumper and execute a twisting front flip with a turn... at the same time i would pull my .45 Storm and shoot through the windshield and top of the car (hitting the driver of course) I'd safely land behind the car (as it was passing under me as I flipped, duh...) re-holster my gun, catch my purse as it came back down, flip my hair out of my face and say something catchy then turn and walk away... (as the car blows up behind me...) LOL

*cue the music...

Well, either that or just move out of the way, I mean it really depends how far the car is... run inside a building or store...something like that.. LOL

SIGSHR · October 26, 2011, 02:45 PM

Get out of the way is the first thing that comes to mind. Second-aim between the headlights to puncture the radiator. Third, aim for the tires.

K_Mac · October 26, 2011, 03:05 PM

TX_QtPi that was going to be my response, but I was afraid the other guys would make fun of me.

I see Angelina Jolie playing your role in the movie...

markj · October 26, 2011, 03:14 PM

I have a special marker pen from acme inc, it lets me draw a hole in anything then I can jump into the hole pulling it shut behind me. This keeps me safe till the threat is long gone, then I get out and jet pac the rest of the way home... no gun needed.

Nordeste · October 26, 2011, 03:54 PM

briandg,

You're right. I didn't read your previous post since I was just answering to the OP.

I haven't been to the US yet (I'm eager to, though), but I've shared a few years of my life working alongside Americans, both military or law enforcement personnel. This doesn't make me an expert, but we had time to share a few beers and compare how we do things, what we can and cannot do, etc, at either side of the pond. This said, if here, that we have -you bet- worse use of force regulations than you do, Judges, Police Supervisors and Prosecutors understand that a vehicle can be a lethal weapon, it's just hard for me to believe it's the other way around in the US. And at the end, it's that what matters, not the public's perception, which might be well far away from being right. As long as the tool used against you is likely to cause death or severe injury, the use of lethal force is justified.

The cases we had here involved officers who where down on the floor or in danger of being pinned between the car and a hard object, and if that's not a life threatening situation, please let me know what it is

.

PH/CIB · October 27, 2011, 10:16 AM

If someone tries to kill me with a car,,,I will try to kill them with my handgun.

federali · October 31, 2011, 07:51 PM

It seems that cops have their fair share of situations involving a car chase, ending in an attempted arrest but the driver attempts to flee, using his car as a weapon, at which point, cops open fire.

As a CCW, we shouldn't be attempting citizens' arrests nor chasing vehicles. I can see a bar fight or argument, spilling out into the street or parking lot where somebody manages to get into his car and possibly run down his antagonist.

I'd be thinking of avoiding the vehicle rather than shooting at it--an act that probably won't stop the vehicle and puts innocent bystanders in real danger.

Stressfire · November 1, 2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

It seems that cops have their fair share of situations involving a car chase

Yeah, and apparently it often involves their own cars

Maximus856 · November 1, 2011, 01:11 PM

I've had a car come at me once, but fortunately he turned out of the way and my buddy and I jumped towards the guard rail. It was a somewhat understandable situation, but a sad one as it how's just how bad things are today.

Two of my buddies in my platoon and I were driving on i95 and we saw a guy pulled over with his flashers on. We pulled over to see if he needed help and as soon as he saw us as I was about to walk back to him, he threw his car in reverse and floored it. He then put it in drive and came hauling butt towards us. Right as we jumped out of the way he turned the opposite way. To be honest, I don't know if I would of had the time to draw, but even more importantly is that I don't know if the situation would of called for it. I guess the guy thought we were highway pirates, but either way best bet is just get out of the way. If armed maybe be ready, but the car won't stop just because the possible BG is dead.

Just my $0.02.
Max

HeroHog · November 1, 2011, 02:42 PM

I'm in a wheelchair. I will be shooting through the grill/hood in the hope of hitting a control module/computer or some other vital component that will result in a "quick kill." Being a car guy I have an Idea of where these live and where the metal is the thinnest so I can make an educated guess as to where to place my shots but it WILL depend on a high degree of luck to pull off.

Your best bet will be firing downward through the hood along the fender-wells starting on the Drivers side. Shooting straight into the grill is a great way to waste lead. It MAY result in a dead car but that is most likely going to be after a considerable amount of time due to cooling fluid loss/over heating.

mxracr · November 1, 2011, 03:15 PM

First, get out of the way! If you have time to pull a gun out and shoot, you have time to save your butt and move. Then you can deal with the Terminator as he turns the truck around.

Second, lets say you decide to pull the gun and shoot. Lets say your a good shot and hit the person. Your still going to get run over.

ripnbst · November 1, 2011, 04:40 PM

Shooting will put the driver down and make you feel like a winner yes but, it does nothing to stop the momentum of the vehicle as has already been pointed out.

I would try and get behind a tree or parked car. Forget poles, it's too easily going through that too.

Deaf Smith · November 1, 2011, 09:05 PM

Car is bigger than me thus it has the right of way.

No, I'll move if I can, shoot if I can't.

Deaf

MLeake · November 3, 2011, 11:38 AM

Hmmm... let's see... there are 7000 grains in one pound; a 230gr .45 bullet is about 1/30 of a lb... At 900fps call it 30lbs-ft of momentum (roughly).

My Avalanche is around 6000lbs. At 30mph, that's about 180,000lbs-ft of momentum (roughly).

Net momentum is 179,970lbs-ft of momentum, still coming right at the shooter....

But let's say I have a .30-06... 180gr is a bit over 1/40 of a lb, times 2800fps is a bit over 70lbs-ft momentum.

So when it hits the truck, the truck now only carries a net 179,930lbs momentum at the shooter...

As others have noted, getting out of the way is critical. Shooting is pointless, if one does not get out of the way.

From a legal standpoint, shooting may or may not be defensible. After you are out of the way, from a legal standpoint, you should probably try to determine if the guy is really trying to hit you; if he's drunk or otherwise intoxicated and simply incapacitated (and you happened to be in the wrong spot); if he's having a diabetic event (LEOs sometimes find their DUI suspects are actually not drunk at all, but suffering from sudden, acute blood sugar drops); or if some other thing is at play.

In most cases, if the driver isn't somebody you know to be an enemy, it's probably one of the other cases. Or he's a wack job.

Safest thing to do, legally speaking and once you are out of the way of the vehicle, is to get to someplace safe. (Large boulders, concrete barriers, ditches, etc that will stop the vehicle from following are all good things to use, if available.)

MLeake · November 3, 2011, 11:44 AM

With regard to my previous post, I'm sure somebody will say "the bullet is for the driver, not the truck!"

To which I'd respond, inertia will tend to make the vehicle continue along the same path. Killing the driver is not likely to change that, unless he happens to somehow manipulate the steering wheel - and we can't really count on that.

Shooting the driver could prevent subsequent attempts (say he were trying to circle back around for another go), but would not be likely to help in the initial encounter.

markj · November 3, 2011, 04:36 PM

is it legal to shoot a car? in this situation I mean? wouldnt they ask you why didnt you step aside or something like that?

seansean1444 · November 3, 2011, 05:40 PM

slow down as much as possible put it in the ditch and if he stops and comes down there and thretens you more.. end him if he drives away call 911... gotta be carefull not some old lady that has no idea whats going on

HiBC · November 6, 2011, 04:35 AM

Food for thought:
I stepped out of the back of a restaurant once,and this motorcycle came flying at me.
I sidestepped and grabbed the near handlebar.He and the bike slammed to the pavement.I was on the verge of making sure he didn't get up too soon,when he took his helmet off.
It was a good friend,just bought a new bike and wanted to show it to me,was messing around.

I know you are watching "what if" cartoons in your head...

Find something better to do.

Really.

Webleymkv · November 6, 2011, 04:37 PM

I agree that the best thing to do is get out of the way. No handheld weapon less than an RPG can reliably stop an automobile instantaneously. Even if you hit the driver, disable the engine, or lock up the brakes, you've still got a several thousand pound object moving at a high rate of speed and that will take both time and distance to stop. Also, it would take some pretty unusual circumstances to convince me that the driver of a car is, without a shadow of a doubt, trying to kill me. I'd hate to shoot and kill someone only to find out that their brakes went out, their accelerator stuck, or the poor driver had a health issue that caused him/her to pass out at the wheel.

bikerbill · November 7, 2011, 10:18 AM

If the car is out of control, it's likely that it will keep going in a straight line, more or less, giving you an opportunity to evade ... if the driver is set on hurting you, the car would likely swerve in your direction ... I don't think I'd take a shot at the car, but dodging out of the way seems possible ...

hootey · November 16, 2011, 05:19 PM

Exact thing happened to a fellow classmate in the late 80's in Okla. He was a patrolman wth the local SO at the time. He was in a parking lot of a high end nightclub, a perp( a very misunderstood, intoxicated, victim of modern culture, dopehead, meathead, seriously in need of prof counciling)came at him with a car. He drew and fired several rounds through the windshield striking the perp in the head killing him DRT. He then jumped/dove onto the hood of the car which then hit his patrol car. He had some minor cuts & bruises. The whole incident was investigated of course & ruled as a JUSTIFIED SHOOTING. He was returned to active duty with a pat on the back for quick thinking. The entire event happened in two or three seconds, no time to think about what to do, only time to react. TTHHEENN all the nasayers started in: the perp was misunderstood & under duress, he meant no harm, he had some personal problems that needed attention. WHY did the the big strong cop pull his canon and blast away like a madman when he was in no danger? After all he had time to jump on the hood of the car to escape injury, that prooves he had time to think. Obviously the cop is a trigger happy, macho type.....That was about when I started really looking forward to retirement. I have drawn weapons more times than I can remember, luckily I never had to shoot anyone. All I do now is target shoot and fish, I like it!

barstoolguru · November 16, 2011, 05:33 PM

get off the side walk if you think you are going to get run over!

Unistat76 · November 16, 2011, 06:43 PM

I personally know a police officer that did this. He was in the impound lot and was constrained from getting out of the way. The .40 S&W round penetrated the windshield and was deflected downward, hitting the driver in the leg. The driver did veer off and crash into a wall.

1stADCombatVet · November 22, 2011, 02:55 AM

Depends.... I've had cars speeding at me trying to hit me before, and I lit them up, of course at the time I was in the turret of a uparmored Hummer. If I was on foot, and I knew for sure they were trying to run me down, I think I would fire at them, as I am getting out of the way of the car, If i didn't know for sure, I would get out of the way, afterwards, I would draw my weapon and assess the situation, if they are close enough to you to blind you with their headlights, there is no way you are going to be able to stand your ground and stop the vehicle with a handgun.

TheNocturnus · November 22, 2011, 12:30 PM

Wow, this thread is still alive?!? I think it has run it's course already. Feel free to close it mods.

October 26, 2011, 01:59 PM	#51
TX_QtPi Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2011 Location: TX Posts: 101	I would take a defensive stance right in front of the car and give the driver "the look", as the car approached I would run towards it, throw my purse up in the air, step onto the bumper and execute a twisting front flip with a turn... at the same time i would pull my .45 Storm and shoot through the windshield and top of the car (hitting the driver of course) I'd safely land behind the car (as it was passing under me as I flipped, duh...) re-holster my gun, catch my purse as it came back down, flip my hair out of my face and say something catchy then turn and walk away... (as the car blows up behind me...) LOL *cue the music... Well, either that or just move out of the way, I mean it really depends how far the car is... run inside a building or store...something like that.. LOL __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

October 26, 2011, 03:05 PM	#53
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	TX_QtPi that was going to be my response, but I was afraid the other guys would make fun of me. I see Angelina Jolie playing your role in the movie... __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

October 27, 2011, 10:16 AM	#56
PH/CIB Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 281	If someone tries to kill me with a car,,,I will try to kill them with my handgun. __________________ Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net

October 31, 2011, 07:51 PM	#57
federali Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2011 Location: Nassau County NY Posts: 378	Let Police shoot at cars It seems that cops have their fair share of situations involving a car chase, ending in an attempted arrest but the driver attempts to flee, using his car as a weapon, at which point, cops open fire. As a CCW, we shouldn't be attempting citizens' arrests nor chasing vehicles. I can see a bar fight or argument, spilling out into the street or parking lot where somebody manages to get into his car and possibly run down his antagonist. I'd be thinking of avoiding the vehicle rather than shooting at it--an act that probably won't stop the vehicle and puts innocent bystanders in real danger. __________________ Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors

November 1, 2011, 01:11 PM	#59
Maximus856 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 547	I've had a car come at me once, but fortunately he turned out of the way and my buddy and I jumped towards the guard rail. It was a somewhat understandable situation, but a sad one as it how's just how bad things are today. Two of my buddies in my platoon and I were driving on i95 and we saw a guy pulled over with his flashers on. We pulled over to see if he needed help and as soon as he saw us as I was about to walk back to him, he threw his car in reverse and floored it. He then put it in drive and came hauling butt towards us. Right as we jumped out of the way he turned the opposite way. To be honest, I don't know if I would of had the time to draw, but even more importantly is that I don't know if the situation would of called for it. I guess the guy thought we were highway pirates, but either way best bet is just get out of the way. If armed maybe be ready, but the car won't stop just because the possible BG is dead. Just my $0.02. Max __________________ "In 1968 for my senior field trip I was sent to RVN" -Hunter Customs "It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

October 26, 2011, 02:45 PM	#52
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Get out of the way is the first thing that comes to mind. Second-aim between the headlights to puncture the radiator. Third, aim for the tires.

October 26, 2011, 03:14 PM	#54
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	I have a special marker pen from acme inc, it lets me draw a hole in anything then I can jump into the hole pulling it shut behind me. This keeps me safe till the threat is long gone, then I get out and jet pac the rest of the way home... no gun needed.

October 26, 2011, 03:54 PM	#55
Nordeste Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2011 Location: Asturias, Spain Posts: 328	briandg, You're right. I didn't read your previous post since I was just answering to the OP. I haven't been to the US yet (I'm eager to, though), but I've shared a few years of my life working alongside Americans, both military or law enforcement personnel. This doesn't make me an expert, but we had time to share a few beers and compare how we do things, what we can and cannot do, etc, at either side of the pond. This said, if here, that we have -you bet- worse use of force regulations than you do, Judges, Police Supervisors and Prosecutors understand that a vehicle can be a lethal weapon, it's just hard for me to believe it's the other way around in the US. And at the end, it's that what matters, not the public's perception, which might be well far away from being right. As long as the tool used against you is likely to cause death or severe injury, the use of lethal force is justified. The cases we had here involved officers who where down on the floor or in danger of being pinned between the car and a hard object, and if that's not a life threatening situation, please let me know what it is .

November 1, 2011, 02:42 PM	#60
HeroHog Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2008 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 486	I'm in a wheelchair. I will be shooting through the grill/hood in the hope of hitting a control module/computer or some other vital component that will result in a "quick kill." Being a car guy I have an Idea of where these live and where the metal is the thinnest so I can make an educated guess as to where to place my shots but it WILL depend on a high degree of luck to pull off. Your best bet will be firing downward through the hood along the fender-wells starting on the Drivers side. Shooting straight into the grill is a great way to waste lead. It MAY result in a dead car but that is most likely going to be after a considerable amount of time due to cooling fluid loss/over heating. __________________ Speedy AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy" *I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `Nuff said.*

November 1, 2011, 03:15 PM	#61
mxracr Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 85	First, get out of the way! If you have time to pull a gun out and shoot, you have time to save your butt and move. Then you can deal with the Terminator as he turns the truck around. Second, lets say you decide to pull the gun and shoot. Lets say your a good shot and hit the person. Your still going to get run over.

November 1, 2011, 04:40 PM	#62
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	Shooting will put the driver down and make you feel like a winner yes but, it does nothing to stop the momentum of the vehicle as has already been pointed out. I would try and get behind a tree or parked car. Forget poles, it's too easily going through that too.

November 1, 2011, 09:05 PM	#63
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Car is bigger than me thus it has the right of way. No, I'll move if I can, shoot if I can't. Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

November 3, 2011, 11:38 AM	#64
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Hmmm... let's see... there are 7000 grains in one pound; a 230gr .45 bullet is about 1/30 of a lb... At 900fps call it 30lbs-ft of momentum (roughly). My Avalanche is around 6000lbs. At 30mph, that's about 180,000lbs-ft of momentum (roughly). Net momentum is 179,970lbs-ft of momentum, still coming right at the shooter.... But let's say I have a .30-06... 180gr is a bit over 1/40 of a lb, times 2800fps is a bit over 70lbs-ft momentum. So when it hits the truck, the truck now only carries a net 179,930lbs momentum at the shooter... As others have noted, getting out of the way is critical. Shooting is pointless, if one does not get out of the way. From a legal standpoint, shooting may or may not be defensible. After you are out of the way, from a legal standpoint, you should probably try to determine if the guy is really trying to hit you; if he's drunk or otherwise intoxicated and simply incapacitated (and you happened to be in the wrong spot); if he's having a diabetic event (LEOs sometimes find their DUI suspects are actually not drunk at all, but suffering from sudden, acute blood sugar drops); or if some other thing is at play. In most cases, if the driver isn't somebody you know to be an enemy, it's probably one of the other cases. Or he's a wack job. Safest thing to do, legally speaking and once you are out of the way of the vehicle, is to get to someplace safe. (Large boulders, concrete barriers, ditches, etc that will stop the vehicle from following are all good things to use, if available.)

November 3, 2011, 11:44 AM	#65
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	With regard to my previous post, I'm sure somebody will say "the bullet is for the driver, not the truck!" To which I'd respond, inertia will tend to make the vehicle continue along the same path. Killing the driver is not likely to change that, unless he happens to somehow manipulate the steering wheel - and we can't really count on that. Shooting the driver could prevent subsequent attempts (say he were trying to circle back around for another go), but would not be likely to help in the initial encounter.

November 3, 2011, 04:36 PM	#66
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	is it legal to shoot a car? in this situation I mean? wouldnt they ask you why didnt you step aside or something like that?

November 3, 2011, 05:40 PM	#67
seansean1444 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: ithaca, new york (home of the ithaca shotguns!) Posts: 395	slow down as much as possible put it in the ditch and if he stops and comes down there and thretens you more.. end him if he drives away call 911... gotta be carefull not some old lady that has no idea whats going on

November 6, 2011, 04:35 AM	#68
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	Food for thought: I stepped out of the back of a restaurant once,and this motorcycle came flying at me. I sidestepped and grabbed the near handlebar.He and the bike slammed to the pavement.I was on the verge of making sure he didn't get up too soon,when he took his helmet off. It was a good friend,just bought a new bike and wanted to show it to me,was messing around. I know you are watching "what if" cartoons in your head... Find something better to do. Really.

November 6, 2011, 04:37 PM	#69
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	I agree that the best thing to do is get out of the way. No handheld weapon less than an RPG can reliably stop an automobile instantaneously. Even if you hit the driver, disable the engine, or lock up the brakes, you've still got a several thousand pound object moving at a high rate of speed and that will take both time and distance to stop. Also, it would take some pretty unusual circumstances to convince me that the driver of a car is, without a shadow of a doubt, trying to kill me. I'd hate to shoot and kill someone only to find out that their brakes went out, their accelerator stuck, or the poor driver had a health issue that caused him/her to pass out at the wheel.

November 7, 2011, 10:18 AM	#70
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	If the car is out of control, it's likely that it will keep going in a straight line, more or less, giving you an opportunity to evade ... if the driver is set on hurting you, the car would likely swerve in your direction ... I don't think I'd take a shot at the car, but dodging out of the way seems possible ... __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

November 16, 2011, 05:19 PM	#71
hootey Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: Greater Northwest Posts: 244	Exact thing happened to a fellow classmate in the late 80's in Okla. He was a patrolman wth the local SO at the time. He was in a parking lot of a high end nightclub, a perp( a very misunderstood, intoxicated, victim of modern culture, dopehead, meathead, seriously in need of prof counciling)came at him with a car. He drew and fired several rounds through the windshield striking the perp in the head killing him DRT. He then jumped/dove onto the hood of the car which then hit his patrol car. He had some minor cuts & bruises. The whole incident was investigated of course & ruled as a JUSTIFIED SHOOTING. He was returned to active duty with a pat on the back for quick thinking. The entire event happened in two or three seconds, no time to think about what to do, only time to react. TTHHEENN all the nasayers started in: the perp was misunderstood & under duress, he meant no harm, he had some personal problems that needed attention. WHY did the the big strong cop pull his canon and blast away like a madman when he was in no danger? After all he had time to jump on the hood of the car to escape injury, that prooves he had time to think. Obviously the cop is a trigger happy, macho type.....That was about when I started really looking forward to retirement. I have drawn weapons more times than I can remember, luckily I never had to shoot anyone. All I do now is target shoot and fish, I like it!

November 16, 2011, 05:33 PM	#72
barstoolguru Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2011 Posts: 180	here is a thought.... get off the side walk if you think you are going to get run over!

November 16, 2011, 06:43 PM	#73
Unistat76 Member Join Date: June 25, 2011 Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit. Posts: 40	I personally know a police officer that did this. He was in the impound lot and was constrained from getting out of the way. The .40 S&W round penetrated the windshield and was deflected downward, hitting the driver in the leg. The driver did veer off and crash into a wall. __________________ There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't. http://unistat76.blogspot.com/

November 22, 2011, 02:55 AM	#74
1stADCombatVet Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2011 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 13	Depends.... I've had cars speeding at me trying to hit me before, and I lit them up, of course at the time I was in the turret of a uparmored Hummer. If I was on foot, and I knew for sure they were trying to run me down, I think I would fire at them, as I am getting out of the way of the car, If i didn't know for sure, I would get out of the way, afterwards, I would draw my weapon and assess the situation, if they are close enough to you to blind you with their headlights, there is no way you are going to be able to stand your ground and stop the vehicle with a handgun.

November 22, 2011, 12:30 PM	#75
TheNocturnus Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,097	Wow, this thread is still alive?!? I think it has run it's course already. Feel free to close it mods. __________________ My EDC: Gun Wallet Brain (Use this one the most)