Old Muzzleloader Question

Embellishment · August 3, 2013, 12:55 PM

Years ago a friend acquired an old muzzleloading shotgun. It has the hammer, stem and percussion cap setup. On it is engraved:

M.R. le Chattlemult

He was told by an old gunsmith/blacksmith that is was made in France.

I cannot find anything on the internet about. Anyone on here ever heard of this company?

Thank you.

Embellishment

Doc Hoy · August 3, 2013, 01:09 PM

Welcome to the forum

Embellishment · August 3, 2013, 03:31 PM

Thanks Doc... I got a feeling this question is going to stump the whole shooting match here. :-)

Noz · August 3, 2013, 03:44 PM

Give them some time. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here.

wap41 · August 3, 2013, 04:55 PM

That could be the owners name and not the makers.check the proof marks they might tell you what country it was made in.

Hawg · August 3, 2013, 05:06 PM

Yeah, pull the barrels and check for proof marks.

Bill Akins · August 4, 2013, 12:04 AM

If it was indeed made in France, could you possibly be misreading the name, and instead of it being "Chattlemult", could it instead be "Chatellerault"? That may be why you haven't been able to find anything about it online.

Chatellerault was a French firearms making facility created in 1819 by royal decree for making swords. In 1850 they started making firearms and cannons too. They built firearms until 1968 and has now been transformed into the central repository of all the French military archives related to armament matters.

Since they started making firearms in 1850, it may be that your shotgun was made by them. Their name of: "Manufacture d'armes de Châtellerault" is often abbreviated as "MAC".

.

Embellishment · August 4, 2013, 12:28 PM

By Bill Adkins:

If it was indeed made in France, could you possibly be misreading the name, and instead of it being "Chattlemult", could it instead be "Chatellerault"? That may be why you haven't been able to find anything about it online.

Chatellerault was a French firearms making facility created in 1819 by royal decree for making swords. In 1850 they started making firearms and cannons too. They built firearms until 1968 and has now been transformed into the central repository of all the French military archives related to armament matters.

Since they started making firearms in 1850, it may be that your shotgun was made by them. Their name of: "Manufacture d'armes de Châtellerault" is often abbreviated as "MAC".
************************************************************

Response... Bill I will have to recheck. Perhaps I did transcribe it wrong. Thank you so much for responding. Will try to check it again.

rkw

Bill Akins · August 4, 2013, 05:44 PM

Also Embellishment, it became common practice for Chatellerault and other French as well as other European rifles of large bore caliber, that had become obsolete, to then be converted into shotguns, that were then sold to Africa as what is commonly known as "Zulu" guns. So it is possible that your shotgun may have started off originally as being a rifle, and then later converted into a shotgun. Then again it may have been manufactured as a shotgun. Only further research on your gun would tell that.

.

Captchee · August 4, 2013, 05:46 PM

while your looking for makers marks , dont discount lines . alot of the makers from the guilds could not write or read . so the would make marks like 3 lines or 2 lines and an angle line . makes it real hard to figure out just who made it .
but normaly when they did make marks like above , those marks will be on all the parts , unless it was a liege gun , then its can carry alot of diffrent marks as the parts were all made by diffrent makers .

pictures would help alot if you could post some

Bill Akins · August 4, 2013, 06:02 PM

Here's a link telling of the history of Chatellerault, and it lists a few of the markings. Although most of the markings are for swords produced by Chatellerault, some of those markings are the same on their firearms.
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcol...ellerault.html

Here's another link to a site that shows more markings of French firearms starting from 1782 to today. See if you can find any of the French markings from this site on your gun.
http://www.shotguns.se/html/france.html

Look at marking number 7, it is for Chatellerault and is a large "E" that was used from 1810 to 1879 by Chatellerault. There are also other French markings shown that were used at that time on ALL French firearms no matter which site produced them.

.

August 3, 2013, 12:55 PM	#1
Embellishment Junior Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 12	Old Muzzleloader Question Years ago a friend acquired an old muzzleloading shotgun. It has the hammer, stem and percussion cap setup. On it is engraved: M.R. le Chattlemult He was told by an old gunsmith/blacksmith that is was made in France. I cannot find anything on the internet about. Anyone on here ever heard of this company? Thank you. Embellishment

August 3, 2013, 01:09 PM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	No answers for you but... Welcome to the forum __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 4, 2013, 12:04 AM	#7
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	If it was indeed made in France, could you possibly be misreading the name, and instead of it being "Chattlemult", could it instead be "Chatellerault"? That may be why you haven't been able to find anything about it online. Chatellerault was a French firearms making facility created in 1819 by royal decree for making swords. In 1850 they started making firearms and cannons too. They built firearms until 1968 and has now been transformed into the central repository of all the French military archives related to armament matters. Since they started making firearms in 1850, it may be that your shotgun was made by them. Their name of: "Manufacture d'armes de Châtellerault" is often abbreviated as "MAC". . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; August 4, 2013 at 01:10 AM.

August 4, 2013, 05:44 PM	#9
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Also Embellishment, it became common practice for Chatellerault and other French as well as other European rifles of large bore caliber, that had become obsolete, to then be converted into shotguns, that were then sold to Africa as what is commonly known as "Zulu" guns. So it is possible that your shotgun may have started off originally as being a rifle, and then later converted into a shotgun. Then again it may have been manufactured as a shotgun. Only further research on your gun would tell that. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

August 4, 2013, 06:02 PM	#11
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Here's a link telling of the history of Chatellerault, and it lists a few of the markings. Although most of the markings are for swords produced by Chatellerault, some of those markings are the same on their firearms. http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcol...ellerault.html Here's another link to a site that shows more markings of French firearms starting from 1782 to today. See if you can find any of the French markings from this site on your gun. http://www.shotguns.se/html/france.html Look at marking number 7, it is for Chatellerault and is a large "E" that was used from 1810 to 1879 by Chatellerault. There are also other French markings shown that were used at that time on ALL French firearms no matter which site produced them. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; August 4, 2013 at 06:08 PM.

August 3, 2013, 03:31 PM	#3
Embellishment Junior Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 12	Thanks Doc... I got a feeling this question is going to stump the whole shooting match here. :-)

August 3, 2013, 03:44 PM	#4
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Give them some time. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here.

August 3, 2013, 04:55 PM	#5
wap41 Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 99	That could be the owners name and not the makers.check the proof marks they might tell you what country it was made in.

August 3, 2013, 05:06 PM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Yeah, pull the barrels and check for proof marks.

August 4, 2013, 12:28 PM	#8
Embellishment Junior Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 12	By Bill Adkins: If it was indeed made in France, could you possibly be misreading the name, and instead of it being "Chattlemult", could it instead be "Chatellerault"? That may be why you haven't been able to find anything about it online. Chatellerault was a French firearms making facility created in 1819 by royal decree for making swords. In 1850 they started making firearms and cannons too. They built firearms until 1968 and has now been transformed into the central repository of all the French military archives related to armament matters. Since they started making firearms in 1850, it may be that your shotgun was made by them. Their name of: "Manufacture d'armes de Châtellerault" is often abbreviated as "MAC". ************************************************************ Response... Bill I will have to recheck. Perhaps I did transcribe it wrong. Thank you so much for responding. Will try to check it again. rkw

August 4, 2013, 05:46 PM	#10
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	while your looking for makers marks , dont discount lines . alot of the makers from the guilds could not write or read . so the would make marks like 3 lines or 2 lines and an angle line . makes it real hard to figure out just who made it . but normaly when they did make marks like above , those marks will be on all the parts , unless it was a liege gun , then its can carry alot of diffrent marks as the parts were all made by diffrent makers . pictures would help alot if you could post some