Winchester 1400 20ga barrel lug

Brian Pfleuger · August 27, 2014, 10:54 AM

Hey all, my dad has this 1400 and the barrel lug started wobbling. Most indications on-line are that it's soldered on but this one has two screws. I got them off (had to grind a screwdriver slot in one) and have found that the lug is also cracked.

I realize this isn't really a part meant to be replaced but I wonder if any one knows of a source for a new lug or if someone might have a scrap barrel laying around that the lug could come off?

I realize I can buy a new barrel for about $150. If any one has a used barrel on the cheap, I'd be interested in that too.

jcj54 · August 27, 2014, 11:25 AM

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi

Brian Pfleuger · August 27, 2014, 11:43 AM

The gun's not worth sending for repair. A brand new barrel is only $150. If I can't fix it myself, I'll just buy a new/used barrel.

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 27, 2014, 08:23 PM

The time it would take to weld up and re-machine everything would cost more than it was worth. I'd get another one, and save any headache that it may fail again.

Brian Pfleuger · August 28, 2014, 09:58 AM

Shouldn't need any welding or machining. All I need is the lug, I can get the screws at Lowes or Home Depot... I can probably fix the lug I have with some JB Weld. It's only got a small crack where the metal is thin in front of one of the screws.

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 29, 2014, 01:51 AM

Brian, you are talking of the lug that is part of the gas cyl./ring? If it is a very small crack, you might be able to tig weld it by doing a small spot, and let it cool before another. This way, it keeps the heat a minimum, especially if the lug is brazed or silver soldered to the barrel. Can you take a pic of this?

Brian Pfleuger · August 29, 2014, 07:18 AM

Yep, that's the thing. The lug is (was) screwed to the barrel. No solder/brazing as most references say it should be. One of the holes in the lug was drilled too close to the edge and now has a crack in the thin part.
I would think it would have to be pretty strong (strongly attached) since there's nothing else holding the barrel to the gun, but apparently not. I know it was fired hundreds of times with the lug wobbling.
Biggest trouble is that one of the holes in the barrel is slightly stripped.

I'll post pictures in a couple hours. I'm not near the gun at the moment.

**4V50 Gary** · August 29, 2014, 07:22 AM

I suspect that Fastenal would be a better supplier of machine screws that Home Despot.

Brian Pfleuger · August 29, 2014, 08:13 AM

Probably so, I always forget they exist. Their store locations are not very convenient for me.

Brian Pfleuger · August 29, 2014, 10:29 AM

Here's a picture... The raised edges that appear (at least to me) that they might be solder/brazing are actually just the edge of the bluing. The screw holes are not different sizes, the perspective is distorted.

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 29, 2014, 12:39 PM

Yes, I think it could be straightened out with tig. You would need a small wire/rod, maybe 0.030", and since it is not on the barrel as I thought, you don't have to worry about heat.

What I would do, is build the front of that lug up with weld metal, to thicken it, so the screws can't push it out easily, where these screws are in shear against the recoil. The metal is too thin in front of the screws, so I would build that up, all the way across the front, and file the barrel channel profile back into the top to straighten it out. (Just be careful to not alter the profile, or you'll get a gas leak). You may have to modify the forearm a little due to the lug sticking out a little more, but I would rather have that, than it break again. I would want at least 1/8" to 3/16" of steel in front of those screws. Devcon will not work here, as you need metal added, and I think Devcon's bond would break and come off, since it is not actually a part of the steel. Last, you may have to re-drill the screw holes, to clean them up, but that is about it. Put a little cold blue and oil on it afterwards, and you're done. Since it's hid by the forearm, it doesn't have to look professional.

Does that look like it may have been silver soldered on at one time to you, where the square patch on the barrel is?

Brian Pfleuger · August 30, 2014, 07:38 PM

It doesn't look like it was soldered to me but it may have been.

My dad took a look at it. He doesn't see any remaining traces of solder but he thinks the screws are a repair. He should know, he's such a master at fixing things that shouldn't be fixed/fixable that our last name has become a verb. "Pfleugerize it."

The whole neighborhood comes to him to fix the unfixable. He took it home to see what he could do.

Goatwhiskers · August 31, 2014, 07:37 AM

Brian, what you have is a "Bubba" repair from years ago, the lug is supposed to be silver soldered to the barrel. Screws will never hold it. You could use the screws to hold it in alignment and tig weld around it a little bit at a time, using heat-stop paste if you're worried about welding on the barrel. You could do the same thing by tinning the surfaces with silver solder, screwing into place, then sweating the solder to join the parts. This method requires proper cleaning and fluxing of the surfaces or it will never join. It came loose because of a factory defect in the soldering. GW

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 31, 2014, 03:48 PM

Brian,

I am almost positive it was a repair. It was odd that no solder was left, but then again, someone may have removed it. If you do want to silver solder it back, it can be easily done. The heat for this is well under any heat that could mess with the temper, as long as the flame is taken away as soon as the solder flows.

You would need to clean that square patch bright, down to the steel, and the same with the lug on the ring. Apply the right flux for the silver solder on both pieces, tin both, unless you use the paste type solder, and apply the heat. The screws will certainly come in handy to hold it in place.

Brian Pfleuger · August 31, 2014, 07:07 PM

I do I keep the solder from flowing into the gas ports?

Goatwhiskers · September 1, 2014, 06:11 AM

When correctly done the repair person is not trying to melt a "gob" of solder into the joint, which might flow into the ports. Proper silver soldering, or any kind of soldering, utilizes a very thin layer to create the bond between the parts. Proper tinning of the two parts, then clamping them together and applying heat will sweat the two together and create the bond. Soldering is an art not well understood by many. GW

Dixie Gunsmithing · September 1, 2014, 01:28 PM

Brian,

Yes, I guess I could explain that better about tinning. Clean both as I described, then wipe on the flux. Bring each part up to heat to where the solder will melt and adhere or flow. Here, wipe the solder as thin as possible, and you might even wipe it off with a cloth quickly when done, to obtain the thinnest layer. Next, after doing both the barrel and the lug, align them up, and use the two screws to hold them in alignment. Heat them back up, and watch for the solder to melt or flow, a little should move or flow at the joint. Take the heat away, and let it cool. When heating both together, you'll have to move the flame around the lug, from one side to the other, so it will heat up and flow evenly. Keep the flame on both the lug and barrel as you do this.

If the exhaust hole was to get stopped up, just use a regular drill bit the same size, in a tap handle, and ream out the hole. You can do this too, to clean carbon/powder build up from the hole, and really, it should be done every time you clean one. If you shoot it until it becomes restricted, it will short cycle on you when you might need it.

Brian Pfleuger · September 1, 2014, 04:09 PM

Ok, I guess we'll give it a shot. Worst thing that can happen is $150 for a new barrel.

August 27, 2014, 10:54 AM	#1
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Winchester 1400 20ga barrel lug Hey all, my dad has this 1400 and the barrel lug started wobbling. Most indications on-line are that it's soldered on but this one has two screws. I got them off (had to grind a screwdriver slot in one) and have found that the lug is also cracked. I realize this isn't really a part meant to be replaced but I wonder if any one knows of a source for a new lug or if someone might have a scrap barrel laying around that the lug could come off? I realize I can buy a new barrel for about $150. If any one has a used barrel on the cheap, I'd be interested in that too. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 27, 2014, 11:25 AM	#2
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 218	1400 repair http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi

August 27, 2014, 11:43 AM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	The gun's not worth sending for repair. A brand new barrel is only $150. If I can't fix it myself, I'll just buy a new/used barrel. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 28, 2014, 09:58 AM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Shouldn't need any welding or machining. All I need is the lug, I can get the screws at Lowes or Home Depot... I can probably fix the lug I have with some JB Weld. It's only got a small crack where the metal is thin in front of one of the screws. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 29, 2014, 07:18 AM	#7
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Winchester 1400 20ga barrel lug Yep, that's the thing. The lug is (was) screwed to the barrel. No solder/brazing as most references say it should be. One of the holes in the lug was drilled too close to the edge and now has a crack in the thin part. I would think it would have to be pretty strong (strongly attached) since there's nothing else holding the barrel to the gun, but apparently not. I know it was fired hundreds of times with the lug wobbling. Biggest trouble is that one of the holes in the barrel is slightly stripped. I'll post pictures in a couple hours. I'm not near the gun at the moment.

August 27, 2014, 08:23 PM	#4
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The time it would take to weld up and re-machine everything would cost more than it was worth. I'd get another one, and save any headache that it may fail again.

August 29, 2014, 01:51 AM	#6
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Brian, you are talking of the lug that is part of the gas cyl./ring? If it is a very small crack, you might be able to tig weld it by doing a small spot, and let it cool before another. This way, it keeps the heat a minimum, especially if the lug is brazed or silver soldered to the barrel. Can you take a pic of this?

August 29, 2014, 07:22 AM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	I suspect that Fastenal would be a better supplier of machine screws that Home Despot. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 29, 2014, 08:13 AM	#9
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Probably so, I always forget they exist. Their store locations are not very convenient for me. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 29, 2014, 10:29 AM	#10
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Here's a picture... The raised edges that appear (at least to me) that they might be solder/brazing are actually just the edge of the bluing. The screw holes are not different sizes, the perspective is distorted.

August 29, 2014, 12:39 PM	#11
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Yes, I think it could be straightened out with tig. You would need a small wire/rod, maybe 0.030", and since it is not on the barrel as I thought, you don't have to worry about heat. What I would do, is build the front of that lug up with weld metal, to thicken it, so the screws can't push it out easily, where these screws are in shear against the recoil. The metal is too thin in front of the screws, so I would build that up, all the way across the front, and file the barrel channel profile back into the top to straighten it out. (Just be careful to not alter the profile, or you'll get a gas leak). You may have to modify the forearm a little due to the lug sticking out a little more, but I would rather have that, than it break again. I would want at least 1/8" to 3/16" of steel in front of those screws. Devcon will not work here, as you need metal added, and I think Devcon's bond would break and come off, since it is not actually a part of the steel. Last, you may have to re-drill the screw holes, to clean them up, but that is about it. Put a little cold blue and oil on it afterwards, and you're done. Since it's hid by the forearm, it doesn't have to look professional. Does that look like it may have been silver soldered on at one time to you, where the square patch on the barrel is?

August 30, 2014, 07:38 PM	#12
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	It doesn't look like it was soldered to me but it may have been. My dad took a look at it. He doesn't see any remaining traces of solder but he thinks the screws are a repair. He should know, he's such a master at fixing things that shouldn't be fixed/fixable that our last name has become a verb. "Pfleugerize it." The whole neighborhood comes to him to fix the unfixable. He took it home to see what he could do. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 31, 2014, 07:37 AM	#13
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	Brian, what you have is a "Bubba" repair from years ago, the lug is supposed to be silver soldered to the barrel. Screws will never hold it. You could use the screws to hold it in alignment and tig weld around it a little bit at a time, using heat-stop paste if you're worried about welding on the barrel. You could do the same thing by tinning the surfaces with silver solder, screwing into place, then sweating the solder to join the parts. This method requires proper cleaning and fluxing of the surfaces or it will never join. It came loose because of a factory defect in the soldering. GW

August 31, 2014, 03:48 PM	#14
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Brian, I am almost positive it was a repair. It was odd that no solder was left, but then again, someone may have removed it. If you do want to silver solder it back, it can be easily done. The heat for this is well under any heat that could mess with the temper, as long as the flame is taken away as soon as the solder flows. You would need to clean that square patch bright, down to the steel, and the same with the lug on the ring. Apply the right flux for the silver solder on both pieces, tin both, unless you use the paste type solder, and apply the heat. The screws will certainly come in handy to hold it in place.

August 31, 2014, 07:07 PM	#15
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I do I keep the solder from flowing into the gas ports? __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

September 1, 2014, 06:11 AM	#16
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	When correctly done the repair person is not trying to melt a "gob" of solder into the joint, which might flow into the ports. Proper silver soldering, or any kind of soldering, utilizes a very thin layer to create the bond between the parts. Proper tinning of the two parts, then clamping them together and applying heat will sweat the two together and create the bond. Soldering is an art not well understood by many. GW

September 1, 2014, 01:28 PM	#17
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Brian, Yes, I guess I could explain that better about tinning. Clean both as I described, then wipe on the flux. Bring each part up to heat to where the solder will melt and adhere or flow. Here, wipe the solder as thin as possible, and you might even wipe it off with a cloth quickly when done, to obtain the thinnest layer. Next, after doing both the barrel and the lug, align them up, and use the two screws to hold them in alignment. Heat them back up, and watch for the solder to melt or flow, a little should move or flow at the joint. Take the heat away, and let it cool. When heating both together, you'll have to move the flame around the lug, from one side to the other, so it will heat up and flow evenly. Keep the flame on both the lug and barrel as you do this. If the exhaust hole was to get stopped up, just use a regular drill bit the same size, in a tap handle, and ream out the hole. You can do this too, to clean carbon/powder build up from the hole, and really, it should be done every time you clean one. If you shoot it until it becomes restricted, it will short cycle on you when you might need it.

September 1, 2014, 04:09 PM	#18
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Ok, I guess we'll give it a shot. Worst thing that can happen is $150 for a new barrel.