shotgun newbies questions

Rolkin · October 28, 2004, 12:24 PM

I did try doing a search for most of these but I didn't find much...

Ok first and formost what are chokes for?

Can you shoot slugs and shot through the same barrel?

What caliber would be best? Mostly taget with some small game hunting, but who knows might end up Deer hunting. I'm thinking a 20ga but when visiting my local discount store

95% of the shells were 12ga, and in the back where noone could see it by the archery stuff was 2 boxes (10 boxes pf 25) of Win 20ga and that was the extend of the 20ga ammo...

And I probably wouldn't mind using a 12 ga but I have a wife I'd like have shooting also, mainly for familiarity incase of a HD situation but I'm pretty sure she's going to be scared of the 12 ga.

Would a 12 ga make your shoulder sore after a box of shells? I hear they're heavier and thus the recoil isn't so bad... But I'd assume the recoil on a 20ga would still be less?

If I were to go deer hunting I'd assume I'd be wanting to use a slug or if not I'd need to be pretty close so the shot wouldn't spread... is it even legal to hunt deer with shot? I'm in Illinios btw but I've only hunted in Missouri with my father and so far never for deer.

*edit

I just remembered something else what's legal for shotguns ammo wise everything seems to be 3 rds, but I've seen some 8rd mossbergs online...

Dfariswheel · October 28, 2004, 01:15 PM

In order:

A choke is a constriction at the muzzle that causes shot to stay closer together, longer, after it leaves the barrel.

The choke actually squeezes the shot together just before it leaves the barrel, and this causes the shot to "group" into smaller areas.

For example, shooting a pattern or group with a full choke barrel will produce a smaller groups than a modified choke.

Older guns, and a few new guns have the choke built into the barrel and cannot be changed.
Newer guns use screw-in chokes so you only need to buy one barrel, and however many extra chokes you might need.
The chokes run from Cylinder Bore (no choke at all) to Full (the tightest standard choke).

What choke you use depends on the size shot, WHAT you're shooting at, how far away it is, and how your particular gun preforms with a certain brand/type of shell.

You can safely shoot all standard shot, buck shot, and slugs through any standard choke, but you need to match the choke to the shot, and how your gun performs.

12 gauge is the most adaptable gauge shotgun due to the larger variety of shells, shot, and slugs.
If you need to train your wife, buying the super-cheap Dove & Quail loads from Wal-mart will be a good choice, since these have low recoil.

A 20 gauge gun is also quite usable for most hunting and home defense, BUT it's not as effective on deer and some game birds, plus the gun itself is usually lighter, which causes it to have more recoil with heavier loads than a 12 gauge with light loads.

Most women can handle a 12 gauge with light loads with no problem.
One easy aid is to simply buy a shooting coat or vest with a recoil pad on the shoulder.
Another is to retro-fit your gun with one of the new "super" recoil pads.
These pads are made of a new silicone-like material that reduces felt recoil as much as 60%.

What you hunt deer with depends entirely on the laws where you live.
I'd check with most gun stores for a copy of your state's game laws.
In Missouri you can use a shotgun for deer but ONLY with slugs, NO buckshot.

If your state allows buckshot, a good choice is size 00.
If slugs, buy the standard rifled slugs.
There are special slugs with a "sabot" or plastic jacket around the slug, BUT these are for use in special shotgun barrels that are rifled.

The magazine capacity of a shotgun depends on WHAT you're using it for.
The 3 round limit is a Federal law when hunting some game birds like ducks and geese.
Federal law mandates putting a wooden or plastic plug in magazine to prevent the gun from holding more than 3 shots when hunting these birds.

Some states or even cities may also have magazine limit laws for ALL shotguns, but most follow the Federal law and then, only for game birds.

Unless otherwise prohibited by your state or city, there is no limit to shotgun magazine capacity.
Most shotguns hold 4-5 rounds in the standard magazine.
Some home defense guns hold up to 8 rounds, and many shoguns like the Remington's can have a magazine extension easily attached to hold more rounds.

Bottom line:
Buy some of the lightest load shells you can find, and a shooting coat and new recoil pad for your wife. If she just can't handle the recoil of the 12 gauge, you may have to buy her a smaller gauge gun.

If you want to hunt, check your local game laws to determine what type ammo you can use.

Once you've determined the laws, choose the shot size and the choke needed for the gun.
If you're going to hunt deer, you would usually choose more open chokes like the Cylinder Bore, or Improved Cylinder, whether you use slugs or buckshot.

Rolkin · October 28, 2004, 02:04 PM

Wow thanks that was a very informative and useful post I think I will get a 12ga now. I knew you could get recoil pads but I didn't think they were very useful.

Ok so you can shoot slugs and shot from a smooth bore shotgun?

rifling is it groves or just like indentions? I've never looked down a rifled bore before... would rifling work with shot or slugs and what is it best for?

is a choke nessasary with slugs to get good accuracy? how much smaller does the choke make the bore?

9mmMike · October 28, 2004, 02:15 PM

Yes slugs from a smooth bore. Use rifled slugs.

You can buy rifled barrels but then you must use non-rifled slugs and you can not get a decent pattern for shot (buck or bird). Normally only dedicated deer guns use the rifled barrels......normally.

Personally, I only shoot slugs from guns with a Improved Cylinder choke or less but others shoot them from Modified with no trouble. I do not hunt and only shoot slugs for fun.

Geoff posted a nice list of chokes HERE - CLICK ME

Mike

Rolkin · October 28, 2004, 05:07 PM

Dfariswheel do you know the brand or name of those recoil pads?

9mmMike · October 28, 2004, 05:45 PM

I use Pachmayr Decelerators on all my SG's, including the bride's 16 ga. Wingmaster. These are very very good. You can get them at Brownells or Cabela's to name two places.
Mike

Dfariswheel · October 28, 2004, 06:39 PM

Hogue Company makes a good one.
http://www.getgrip.com/

Remington's R3 version is actually made by a company called LimbSaver.
http://www.remington.com/accessories...y_parts/r3.htm

Most shotguns will come with a recoil pad.
However, these new type pads are MUCH more effective than any other types, and I'd recommend replacing the one on the gun with one of these.

dfaugh · October 30, 2004, 09:44 AM

I don't hunt anymore (although I may again in the future), but the first and last hunting shotgun I ever had was a Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge. It accounted for birds, rabbits, deer....and I used to shoot 98-99% trap with it (That was really amusing...watching these guys with $2000 trap guns watch me dust clays one after the other with my $100 pump-gun).

Now, besides the recoil (which I don't think is big issue, unless you DO shoot trap or something like that, and fire alot of rounds)...what I liked most, was the fact that it weighed at least 2 lbs. less than any 12 ga. While 2 lbs doesn't sound like much, I much preferred schlepping that around the woods than some of the rifles I've owned, and especially when bird/rabbit hunting, where I might walk several miles with the gun at "ready" position. So, within reason, I've always felt that a 20 will do most anything a 12 will do. If I decide to hunt again in the future, I'll be buying a 20 again. (I have a 12 for HD,but not suitable or adaptable to hunting.) Just my .02

USAlx50 · November 2, 2004, 11:14 PM

a mild 12 gauge round doesn't kick that hard....I like 12s cuz you can have more pellets and noticeably faster round.

Clemson · November 3, 2004, 08:41 AM

Velocity from 12 and 20 gauge shells of the same type is identical. The 12 typically holds more shot and is more versatile. I personally prefer the 20, and my wife definitely prefers the 20 because of the reduced weight of the gun. It might be a good idea to take a trip to a local range where you can rent or borrow a gun and try it out.

Clemson

ponyexpress · November 3, 2004, 11:45 AM

Rolkin -

You never mentioned in your post if you were looking at a pump or semi-auto but if you're concerned about recoil a semi-auto is much more pleasant to shoot. However, they are much more sensitive to how heavy the load is (as far as cycling the gun) and to any dirt or gunk in the gun.

Rolkin · November 3, 2004, 02:35 PM

Sorry I was looking at a pump action Rem 870 Express

sm · November 9, 2004, 12:13 AM

Great Post !

Something I always recommend to new shotgunners, is Bob Brister's book- Shotgunning: The Art And Science . Answers a LOT of questions we see asked about shotguns, loads, chokes, gun fit...etc.

try www.abebooks,com

Shep Madera · November 13, 2004, 10:51 PM

Good question. I've just finished Michael McIntosh's Shotguns and Shooting, one of the books I'll be recommending to my sons and handing down as an heirloom. He also wrote Best Guns but I gather it's a bit esoteric and weighted toward English and European doubles where finesse comes at a price.

I've not read the Brister book but I'm sure it's current. Elmer Keith, the guy that ranks with Jack O'Connor as America's traditional gun gurus, wrote Shotguns but I suspect it's dated by now and besides Keith was a supporter of the 10-gauge. He liked heavy recoiling pieces--rifles, handguns, or scatterguns.

McIntosh wouldn't have much to say about slugs, suggesting I suspect you use a rifle for deer and not 'Bubbafy' even a pump or autoloader, two types he's not keen on incidentally. But slugs are the rage today. I grew up in the farms and woodlands of NW Pennsylvania where one hunted deer with rifles and slugs were considered crude and barbaric. They've become more sophisticated and laws and suburbia have dictated this.

Buckshot was considered inhumane back there, back then and I still hold that prejudice. But, then, I'm a .30-30 man.

Get the McIntosh book. You'll learn a lot. For example, he calls the three inch, 20 gauge an 'abomination' , especially in light guns, recalling it as reponsible for the worst recoil jolting he ever got. He convincingly argues the loading simply does not deliver the performance people expect because the shot column is unbalanced. Yes, McIntosh might be considered by some to be a bit snobbish, but I respect the fact he has shot tons more lead than most of us, has done a great deal of research, and visited factories here, in England, and on the continent. He's an authority on shot and loads and I'd take his advice before many others as it's backed by worlds of experience and brings an intelligence to the subject most of us envy.

jc

nobanforme · November 26, 2004, 09:12 PM

Great info all. I'm also looking for my first shotgun. I have many guns but no shotguns. Just thought it might be fun to get one, and easier then shooting clays with an AR15.

rugerdude · November 26, 2004, 10:57 PM

You shouldn't be afraid of a rem. 870 express's recoil even if it is 12ga. With birdshot the recoil is there but it isn't a problem in a big gun like the 870 express. As far as really hard recoil, some shotguns will give you a downright nasty kick, like say an NEF pardner 12ga. loaded with slugs (this was not particularly pleasant, however it was darn funny). Recoil can change a lot depending on the gun and load but if your wife has a problem with the recoil then a recoil pad shoul fix it.

madmurdoc · November 28, 2004, 12:10 AM

The fit of a shotgun is also very important. Many manufacturers make bantum or youth models that are the same action with a smaller stock to provide a better fit for someone with a smaller frame. I grew up on my Mossberg 500 in 12 ga. and I still love it. I am currently breaking in a Benelli Nova 12 ga and the recoil is tremedous when using the big 3.5" 00 Buck loads in the synthetic gun. You should not have any recoil trouble in the heavier 870 though it may get heavy after a carrying it on a long day in the field.

I patterned my Nova before the season this year and found I had an absolute max range of 30 yards with the factory Mod choke (the tightest choke included with it capable of using steel shot, I need to pick up a tighter choke for steel shot). Personally, I wouldn't run a slug through anything tighter than a Mod choke.

Of deer hunting with a shotgun, check your state regs here.
http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/index.htm#Deer

I am in Michigan and we have a line that is in about the middle of the LP that is shotgun only below and rifle or shotgun above. I went to school in Ohio for a while and I know that they were slug only down there. Every area is different.

Well, I hope my experiences and that link are helpful to you, enjoy your new shotgun.

October 28, 2004, 12:24 PM	#1
Rolkin Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2002 Posts: 110	shotgun newbies questions I did try doing a search for most of these but I didn't find much... Ok first and formost what are chokes for? Can you shoot slugs and shot through the same barrel? What caliber would be best? Mostly taget with some small game hunting, but who knows might end up Deer hunting. I'm thinking a 20ga but when visiting my local discount store 95% of the shells were 12ga, and in the back where noone could see it by the archery stuff was 2 boxes (10 boxes pf 25) of Win 20ga and that was the extend of the 20ga ammo... And I probably wouldn't mind using a 12 ga but I have a wife I'd like have shooting also, mainly for familiarity incase of a HD situation but I'm pretty sure she's going to be scared of the 12 ga. Would a 12 ga make your shoulder sore after a box of shells? I hear they're heavier and thus the recoil isn't so bad... But I'd assume the recoil on a 20ga would still be less? If I were to go deer hunting I'd assume I'd be wanting to use a slug or if not I'd need to be pretty close so the shot wouldn't spread... is it even legal to hunt deer with shot? I'm in Illinios btw but I've only hunted in Missouri with my father and so far never for deer. *edit I just remembered something else what's legal for shotguns ammo wise everything seems to be 3 rds, but I've seen some 8rd mossbergs online... __________________ Thomas Jefferson: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Quoting 18th Century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764.)

October 28, 2004, 02:04 PM	#3
Rolkin Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2002 Posts: 110	Wow thanks that was a very informative and useful post I think I will get a 12ga now. I knew you could get recoil pads but I didn't think they were very useful. Ok so you can shoot slugs and shot from a smooth bore shotgun? rifling is it groves or just like indentions? I've never looked down a rifled bore before... would rifling work with shot or slugs and what is it best for? is a choke nessasary with slugs to get good accuracy? how much smaller does the choke make the bore? __________________ Thomas Jefferson: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Quoting 18th Century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764.)

October 28, 2004, 02:15 PM	#4
9mmMike Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: SE PA Posts: 1,049	Yes slugs from a smooth bore. Use rifled slugs. You can buy rifled barrels but then you must use non-rifled slugs and you can not get a decent pattern for shot (buck or bird). Normally only dedicated deer guns use the rifled barrels......normally. Personally, I only shoot slugs from guns with a Improved Cylinder choke or less but others shoot them from Modified with no trouble. I do not hunt and only shoot slugs for fun. Geoff posted a nice list of chokes HERE - CLICK ME Mike __________________ "Freedom is not free" Visit TheRallyPoint.org TheRallyPoint at LRGC- Saturday August 26th IF YOU LIVE IN PA AND DID NOT VOTE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE YOUR GUNS!

October 28, 2004, 05:07 PM	#5
Rolkin Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2002 Posts: 110	Dfariswheel do you know the brand or name of those recoil pads? __________________ Thomas Jefferson: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Quoting 18th Century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764.)

October 28, 2004, 05:45 PM	#6
9mmMike Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: SE PA Posts: 1,049	I use Pachmayr Decelerators on all my SG's, including the bride's 16 ga. Wingmaster. These are very very good. You can get them at Brownells or Cabela's to name two places. Mike __________________ "Freedom is not free" Visit TheRallyPoint.org TheRallyPoint at LRGC- Saturday August 26th IF YOU LIVE IN PA AND DID NOT VOTE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE YOUR GUNS!

October 28, 2004, 01:15 PM	#2
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	In order: A choke is a constriction at the muzzle that causes shot to stay closer together, longer, after it leaves the barrel. The choke actually squeezes the shot together just before it leaves the barrel, and this causes the shot to "group" into smaller areas. For example, shooting a pattern or group with a full choke barrel will produce a smaller groups than a modified choke. Older guns, and a few new guns have the choke built into the barrel and cannot be changed. Newer guns use screw-in chokes so you only need to buy one barrel, and however many extra chokes you might need. The chokes run from Cylinder Bore (no choke at all) to Full (the tightest standard choke). What choke you use depends on the size shot, WHAT you're shooting at, how far away it is, and how your particular gun preforms with a certain brand/type of shell. You can safely shoot all standard shot, buck shot, and slugs through any standard choke, but you need to match the choke to the shot, and how your gun performs. 12 gauge is the most adaptable gauge shotgun due to the larger variety of shells, shot, and slugs. If you need to train your wife, buying the super-cheap Dove & Quail loads from Wal-mart will be a good choice, since these have low recoil. A 20 gauge gun is also quite usable for most hunting and home defense, BUT it's not as effective on deer and some game birds, plus the gun itself is usually lighter, which causes it to have more recoil with heavier loads than a 12 gauge with light loads. Most women can handle a 12 gauge with light loads with no problem. One easy aid is to simply buy a shooting coat or vest with a recoil pad on the shoulder. Another is to retro-fit your gun with one of the new "super" recoil pads. These pads are made of a new silicone-like material that reduces felt recoil as much as 60%. What you hunt deer with depends entirely on the laws where you live. I'd check with most gun stores for a copy of your state's game laws. In Missouri you can use a shotgun for deer but ONLY with slugs, NO buckshot. If your state allows buckshot, a good choice is size 00. If slugs, buy the standard rifled slugs. There are special slugs with a "sabot" or plastic jacket around the slug, BUT these are for use in special shotgun barrels that are rifled. The magazine capacity of a shotgun depends on WHAT you're using it for. The 3 round limit is a Federal law when hunting some game birds like ducks and geese. Federal law mandates putting a wooden or plastic plug in magazine to prevent the gun from holding more than 3 shots when hunting these birds. Some states or even cities may also have magazine limit laws for ALL shotguns, but most follow the Federal law and then, only for game birds. Unless otherwise prohibited by your state or city, there is no limit to shotgun magazine capacity. Most shotguns hold 4-5 rounds in the standard magazine. Some home defense guns hold up to 8 rounds, and many shoguns like the Remington's can have a magazine extension easily attached to hold more rounds. Bottom line: Buy some of the lightest load shells you can find, and a shooting coat and new recoil pad for your wife. If she just can't handle the recoil of the 12 gauge, you may have to buy her a smaller gauge gun. If you want to hunt, check your local game laws to determine what type ammo you can use. Once you've determined the laws, choose the shot size and the choke needed for the gun. If you're going to hunt deer, you would usually choose more open chokes like the Cylinder Bore, or Improved Cylinder, whether you use slugs or buckshot.

October 28, 2004, 06:39 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Hogue Company makes a good one. http://www.getgrip.com/ Remington's R3 version is actually made by a company called LimbSaver. http://www.remington.com/accessories...y_parts/r3.htm Most shotguns will come with a recoil pad. However, these new type pads are MUCH more effective than any other types, and I'd recommend replacing the one on the gun with one of these.

October 30, 2004, 09:44 AM	#8
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Don't discount a 20.... I don't hunt anymore (although I may again in the future), but the first and last hunting shotgun I ever had was a Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge. It accounted for birds, rabbits, deer....and I used to shoot 98-99% trap with it (That was really amusing...watching these guys with $2000 trap guns watch me dust clays one after the other with my $100 pump-gun). Now, besides the recoil (which I don't think is big issue, unless you DO shoot trap or something like that, and fire alot of rounds)...what I liked most, was the fact that it weighed at least 2 lbs. less than any 12 ga. While 2 lbs doesn't sound like much, I much preferred schlepping that around the woods than some of the rifles I've owned, and especially when bird/rabbit hunting, where I might walk several miles with the gun at "ready" position. So, within reason, I've always felt that a 20 will do most anything a 12 will do. If I decide to hunt again in the future, I'll be buying a 20 again. (I have a 12 for HD,but not suitable or adaptable to hunting.) Just my .02 __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

November 2, 2004, 11:14 PM	#9
USAlx50 Member Join Date: October 5, 2004 Posts: 75	a mild 12 gauge round doesn't kick that hard....I like 12s cuz you can have more pellets and noticeably faster round.

November 3, 2004, 08:41 AM	#10
Clemson Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2001 Location: Greenwood, SC Posts: 875	Velocity from 12 and 20 gauge shells of the same type is identical. The 12 typically holds more shot and is more versatile. I personally prefer the 20, and my wife definitely prefers the 20 because of the reduced weight of the gun. It might be a good idea to take a trip to a local range where you can rent or borrow a gun and try it out. Clemson __________________ NRA Endowment Member, NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder US Army veteran Gunsmith www.boltandbarrel.com

November 3, 2004, 11:45 AM	#11
ponyexpress Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 10	Rolkin - You never mentioned in your post if you were looking at a pump or semi-auto but if you're concerned about recoil a semi-auto is much more pleasant to shoot. However, they are much more sensitive to how heavy the load is (as far as cycling the gun) and to any dirt or gunk in the gun.

November 3, 2004, 02:35 PM	#12
Rolkin Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2002 Posts: 110	Sorry I was looking at a pump action Rem 870 Express __________________ Thomas Jefferson: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Quoting 18th Century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764.)

November 9, 2004, 12:13 AM	#13
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,819	Dfariswheel Great Post ! Something I always recommend to new shotgunners, is Bob Brister's book- Shotgunning: The Art And Science . Answers a LOT of questions we see asked about shotguns, loads, chokes, gun fit...etc. try www.abebooks,com __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

November 13, 2004, 10:51 PM	#14
Shep Madera Junior Member Join Date: November 12, 2004 Posts: 8	Of shotguns and slugs Good question. I've just finished Michael McIntosh's Shotguns and Shooting, one of the books I'll be recommending to my sons and handing down as an heirloom. He also wrote Best Guns but I gather it's a bit esoteric and weighted toward English and European doubles where finesse comes at a price. I've not read the Brister book but I'm sure it's current. Elmer Keith, the guy that ranks with Jack O'Connor as America's traditional gun gurus, wrote Shotguns but I suspect it's dated by now and besides Keith was a supporter of the 10-gauge. He liked heavy recoiling pieces--rifles, handguns, or scatterguns. McIntosh wouldn't have much to say about slugs, suggesting I suspect you use a rifle for deer and not 'Bubbafy' even a pump or autoloader, two types he's not keen on incidentally. But slugs are the rage today. I grew up in the farms and woodlands of NW Pennsylvania where one hunted deer with rifles and slugs were considered crude and barbaric. They've become more sophisticated and laws and suburbia have dictated this. Buckshot was considered inhumane back there, back then and I still hold that prejudice. But, then, I'm a .30-30 man. Get the McIntosh book. You'll learn a lot. For example, he calls the three inch, 20 gauge an 'abomination' , especially in light guns, recalling it as reponsible for the worst recoil jolting he ever got. He convincingly argues the loading simply does not deliver the performance people expect because the shot column is unbalanced. Yes, McIntosh might be considered by some to be a bit snobbish, but I respect the fact he has shot tons more lead than most of us, has done a great deal of research, and visited factories here, in England, and on the continent. He's an authority on shot and loads and I'd take his advice before many others as it's backed by worlds of experience and brings an intelligence to the subject most of us envy. jc

November 26, 2004, 09:12 PM	#15
nobanforme Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 389	Great info all. I'm also looking for my first shotgun. I have many guns but no shotguns. Just thought it might be fun to get one, and easier then shooting clays with an AR15.

November 26, 2004, 10:57 PM	#16
rugerdude Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2004 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,443	You shouldn't be afraid of a rem. 870 express's recoil even if it is 12ga. With birdshot the recoil is there but it isn't a problem in a big gun like the 870 express. As far as really hard recoil, some shotguns will give you a downright nasty kick, like say an NEF pardner 12ga. loaded with slugs (this was not particularly pleasant, however it was darn funny). Recoil can change a lot depending on the gun and load but if your wife has a problem with the recoil then a recoil pad shoul fix it. __________________ "The SKS is a rifle, made the way they should be, out of a heavy block of crappy commie steel, set in an inletted semi-reshaped 2x4." Not my quote but I agree completely.

November 28, 2004, 12:10 AM	#17
madmurdoc Member Join Date: November 23, 2004 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 94	The fit of a shotgun is also very important. Many manufacturers make bantum or youth models that are the same action with a smaller stock to provide a better fit for someone with a smaller frame. I grew up on my Mossberg 500 in 12 ga. and I still love it. I am currently breaking in a Benelli Nova 12 ga and the recoil is tremedous when using the big 3.5" 00 Buck loads in the synthetic gun. You should not have any recoil trouble in the heavier 870 though it may get heavy after a carrying it on a long day in the field. I patterned my Nova before the season this year and found I had an absolute max range of 30 yards with the factory Mod choke (the tightest choke included with it capable of using steel shot, I need to pick up a tighter choke for steel shot). Personally, I wouldn't run a slug through anything tighter than a Mod choke. Of deer hunting with a shotgun, check your state regs here. http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/index.htm#Deer I am in Michigan and we have a line that is in about the middle of the LP that is shotgun only below and rifle or shotgun above. I went to school in Ohio for a while and I know that they were slug only down there. Every area is different. Well, I hope my experiences and that link are helpful to you, enjoy your new shotgun.