AR-10; LR-308; m1a; other 7.62x51mm

ArkansasGunFan · February 6, 2011, 11:38 PM

Hey guys, new to the forum so please forgive me if I ask a question that is asked daily regarding accurate semi automatic rifles chambered in the 7.62x51mm NATO. I have done some research on a few of the rifles and wanted to ask if everything I have hear is logical and true. Please correct me if anything sounds off course.

I had pretty well had my mind set on the DPMS LR-308 over the Armalite AR-10. Both guns seem to be accurate out to 800-1000 with the full size rifle barrel, and neither had very many reliability issues. The lighter weight on the gun (and my wallet), along with the option to interchange AR-15 add-ons are what put the DPMS in front of Armalite for me (although if someone were to show me that either gun maker has a more reliable/accurate gun I would definitely like to hear it).

After getting excited at finally making a decision, I got online to read about another favorite 7.62x51mm, the Springfield Armory M1A...

If what I am looking for is a recognizable grouping at 300-400 yards with the opportunity to reach out to 1000 yards (while shooting semi-auto with 10 or more rounds) is there any clear winner?

JiminTexas · February 6, 2011, 11:49 PM

The M1A is an outstanding rifle. In fact it is my favorite battle rifle. It is essentially a removable 20 round magazine M1 Garand. Yeah, I know it is a little bit more than that, but not much more. The Garand at 8 rounds just doesn't have the magazine capacity that I like. I personally have and shoot an FN FAL and I love it. If you are on a budget and don't really need to shoot at 600 to 1000 yards, something that only about 1 in 1000 shooters can do repeatedly, Try a CETME at around $500. These are all 7.62 x 51 Nato. If you really want to go cheap try a Spanish Mauser at $169 from Samco or an FR-8 from Gunbroker. That FR-8 will let you know just how powerful the 7.62 x 51 is. It WILL slap you around a little bit.

DnPRK · February 7, 2011, 12:02 AM

From my experience, either of the AR based rifles (got 2) should shoot MOA or less with 168 or 175 SMKs.

The M1As (got 3) will shoot 2.5 MOA with SMKs and it takes quite a bit of work to tighten up the groups -- bedding, gas cylinder mods, trigger job.

And it is easier to mount a scope on the AR-based rifles too.

trg42wraglefragle · February 7, 2011, 12:03 AM

I think from what I can remember from similar questions, the M1A will be more reliable, but the AR 10 style rifles are more accurate, more ergonomic a lot easier to mount a scope, lots more accessories on the market which are easier to attach and a heck of a lot cheaper.
Some one will probably yell at me for saying the M1A is less accurate but the other reasons are certainly true.
I'd personally go for the DPMS from that list you gave but Rock River Arms make a 308 AR style rifle which is worth looking into.

Those other guns Jimin Texas are also fine rifles but I think they are more battle rifles any wont be as accurate as ones your think about.

Also theres bound to be plenty of people that say a bolt action will be cheaper and more accurate, so I may as well say savage make a nice rifle

ArkansasGunFan · February 7, 2011, 12:06 AM

Thanks for the quick reply Jimin!

I really don't mind paying the extra $$$ if I get something in return. I realize the skill set required to shoot at that distance, and while I may fail trying to achieve my goals, I would still like to know I have the tools needed to accomplish them. (no excuses for me)

I have enjoyed reading many of the threads regarding the M1A, the gun definitely has its share of fans. There is something about how the scope rests on the gun that just throws me a bit though.

ArkansasGunFan · February 7, 2011, 12:08 AM

I love bolt actions too, but when shooting at a group of hogs, semi automatic is the only way to go

jeepman4804 · February 7, 2011, 03:13 AM

I own a DPMS AP4 in .308 and it has been great. Reliable and accurate with the ability to use p-mags and good aftermarket support. Make sure you carefully inspect any weapon you buy for defects or flaws. Mine is nice and tight but I have read some reports of some being on the loose side.

RT · February 7, 2011, 05:59 AM

LaRue OBR or LMT MWS?

PIGMAN · February 7, 2011, 07:29 AM

I really like my DPMS although lots of AR fans here think this brand is substandard.I think for the price it is a great bang for the buck and if it breaks down there are lots of parts and these things are easy to repair compaired to the M1A.

M-1A is "old tech" which is not a bad thing,it is simply a big heavy battle rifle based on a 1930's design and less than my first choice for anything close quarters.This being said. if I could own only one rifle and it had to do everything I expect a rifle to be doing the M1A would for sure be on my very short list.

On the other hand since I own several rifles the DPMS M4 carbine suited my plan plus it costs quite a bit less than the M1A it is a well made firearm and is lighter weight. I also like DPMS carbine because it is compact and has .308 stopping power.If you get the DPMS THEIR SINGLE STAGE TRIGGERS SUCK so budget for an aftermarket two stage replacement.JP Enterprises makes a decent replacement.The pistol grip is lousy and I am happy with a replacement from Houge.

ANY of the firearms you are looking at are very desirable and have no fatal flaws.What mostly matteres is which one you like the best according to your personal tastes.I dont know of anyone who owns any of these arms that is disapointed.The only truly satisfactory solution to your delimma is just to buy em all.

WeedWacker · February 7, 2011, 07:43 AM

Saiga in .308?

I've heard some of them can hold as good as a rack grade M1A with expected accuracy of up to 1.5-2 MOA in a stock off the shelf rifle with factory ammo. Some have reported sub MOA groups with hand loads. I have one with a 16" barrel (same as above but I still haven't shot it yet) and the trigger pull is pretty decent for a $400 semiautomatic .308 win. That "sporter" stock feels like it's the same construction as the one on my stock synthetic/stainless 10/22

Think wiffle bat, but worse than the M16 stocks (which are pretty heavy duty plastics)

madcratebuilder · February 7, 2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

I had pretty well had my mind set on the DPMS LR-308 over the Armalite AR-10. Both guns seem to be accurate out to 800-1000 with the full size rifle barrel, and neither had very many reliability issues. The lighter weight on the gun (and my wallet), along with the option to interchange AR-15 add-ons are what put the DPMS in front of Armalite for me (although if someone were to show me that either gun maker has a more reliable/accurate gun I would definitely like to hear it).

Between these two manufacturers it well come down to the quality of the barrel to determine the best accuracy.

They both use AR15 small parts for the most part. The uppers/lowers, barrels, barrel nuts, hand guards do not interchange. They use different mags. ArmaLite re-engineered the AR15 bolt catch and mag release for the AR10 as the AR15 counterpart has reliability issues in the big guns. ArmaLite cost more but I think you get more rifle for the money, plus a lifetime warranty.

The DPMS is better on the wallet, the ArmaLite and SA's M1A run about the same. Noveske's start around 2.5k and KAC's at 4.5k.

No matter what you buy it should be a reliable accurate shooter. The 7.62 AR platform should be a little better out of the box compared to a M1A in the same price range. A "loaded" model M1A can be upgraded with a screwed and glued gas cylinder, some stock mods and shoot just as good. The AR platform is a little cheaper to scope and a lot less hassle.

I'm personally attached to Noveske's.

SmokyBaer · February 7, 2011, 08:11 AM

First off, the M1As do require a bit of tinkering to make them shoot great. I am a tinkerer so I love mine and really enjoy shooting them. Once dialed in, they can be impressive shooters, especially if you get one of those JAE stocks to place your rifle in. Hopefully, I will be getting one of those this year.

About a year ago, I got a great deal on an FNAR which is chambered for 7.62x51 and that puppy shoots straight right out of the box. Have not tweaked anything on it. Just shoot, clean and grease. Yeah, it's kinda ugly until you dress it out with a nice scope and bipod. If you want a great alternative to to an AR platform, the FNAR is hard to beat. Downside is availability of magazines. You have to be patient and jump on a good deal when you find them. Typically, a 20 rounder can be had for $50-55 if you do your part.

SR420 · February 7, 2011, 08:27 AM

All are good choices, how much do you plan to invest?

A custom built M14/M1A can be a reliable sub MOA 1000 yard performer
especially if you get one of the new SAGE EBR precision match stocks.

ArkansasGunFan · February 7, 2011, 10:33 AM

SR420

I would like to keep the rifle under $2k out of the box, but I would also like to get a grouping at 500+ yards out of the box. Am I asking too much? I realize that I will need some mods to make it reach further reliably, but I don't mind putting another $1k after I purchase the rifle and do more research.

Also, I think I mentioned before that I am new to "assault style" rifles. One of my big fears is putting a bunch of mods and upgrades on a "sub-par" rifle. (I would never put $6k rims on a $500 car if ya catch my drift)

Thanks again for all the replies, really glad I joined the firing line!

ArkansasGunFan · February 7, 2011, 10:49 AM

Madcratebuilder,

Do you have an opinion on which have a better barrel?

I also have to throw the Rock River LAR-8 into the mix now after being informed on it recently

SR420 · February 7, 2011, 10:55 AM

Keep it simple, upgrade as you go even if it takes a few years.

When it comes to the M14/M1A you want to focus on fitting/building the barreled action, the stock is secondary.

A tight fitting USGI synthetic stock will do the job very well and save you a good bit of money.
These M14s are very similar to my Crazy Horse SAGE EBR and they can be built for less.

February 6, 2011, 11:38 PM	#1
ArkansasGunFan Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2011 Posts: 10	AR-10; LR-308; m1a; other 7.62x51mm Hey guys, new to the forum so please forgive me if I ask a question that is asked daily regarding accurate semi automatic rifles chambered in the 7.62x51mm NATO. I have done some research on a few of the rifles and wanted to ask if everything I have hear is logical and true. Please correct me if anything sounds off course. I had pretty well had my mind set on the DPMS LR-308 over the Armalite AR-10. Both guns seem to be accurate out to 800-1000 with the full size rifle barrel, and neither had very many reliability issues. The lighter weight on the gun (and my wallet), along with the option to interchange AR-15 add-ons are what put the DPMS in front of Armalite for me (although if someone were to show me that either gun maker has a more reliable/accurate gun I would definitely like to hear it). After getting excited at finally making a decision, I got online to read about another favorite 7.62x51mm, the Springfield Armory M1A... If what I am looking for is a recognizable grouping at 300-400 yards with the opportunity to reach out to 1000 yards (while shooting semi-auto with 10 or more rounds) is there any clear winner? Last edited by ArkansasGunFan; February 7, 2011 at 12:49 AM.

February 7, 2011, 07:29 AM	#9
PIGMAN Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: ARIZONA Posts: 175	I really like my DPMS although lots of AR fans here think this brand is substandard.I think for the price it is a great bang for the buck and if it breaks down there are lots of parts and these things are easy to repair compaired to the M1A. M-1A is "old tech" which is not a bad thing,it is simply a big heavy battle rifle based on a 1930's design and less than my first choice for anything close quarters.This being said. if I could own only one rifle and it had to do everything I expect a rifle to be doing the M1A would for sure be on my very short list. On the other hand since I own several rifles the DPMS M4 carbine suited my plan plus it costs quite a bit less than the M1A it is a well made firearm and is lighter weight. I also like DPMS carbine because it is compact and has .308 stopping power.If you get the DPMS THEIR SINGLE STAGE TRIGGERS SUCK so budget for an aftermarket two stage replacement.JP Enterprises makes a decent replacement.The pistol grip is lousy and I am happy with a replacement from Houge. ANY of the firearms you are looking at are very desirable and have no fatal flaws.What mostly matteres is which one you like the best according to your personal tastes.I dont know of anyone who owns any of these arms that is disapointed.The only truly satisfactory solution to your delimma is just to buy em all. Last edited by PIGMAN; February 7, 2011 at 07:49 AM.

February 7, 2011, 07:43 AM	#10
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	Saiga in .308? I've heard some of them can hold as good as a rack grade M1A with expected accuracy of up to 1.5-2 MOA in a stock off the shelf rifle with factory ammo. Some have reported sub MOA groups with hand loads. I have one with a 16" barrel (same as above but I still haven't shot it yet) and the trigger pull is pretty decent for a $400 semiautomatic .308 win. That "sporter" stock feels like it's the same construction as the one on my stock synthetic/stainless 10/22 Think wiffle bat, but worse than the M16 stocks (which are pretty heavy duty plastics) __________________ - Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429

February 7, 2011, 08:27 AM	#13
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	All are good choices, how much do you plan to invest? A custom built M14/M1A can be a reliable sub MOA 1000 yard performer especially if you get one of the new SAGE EBR precision match stocks. __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

February 7, 2011, 10:55 AM	#16
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	Keep it simple, upgrade as you go even if it takes a few years. When it comes to the M14/M1A you want to focus on fitting/building the barreled action, the stock is secondary. A tight fitting USGI synthetic stock will do the job very well and save you a good bit of money. These M14s are very similar to my Crazy Horse SAGE EBR and they can be built for less. __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

February 6, 2011, 11:49 PM	#2
JiminTexas Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 149	The M1A is an outstanding rifle. In fact it is my favorite battle rifle. It is essentially a removable 20 round magazine M1 Garand. Yeah, I know it is a little bit more than that, but not much more. The Garand at 8 rounds just doesn't have the magazine capacity that I like. I personally have and shoot an FN FAL and I love it. If you are on a budget and don't really need to shoot at 600 to 1000 yards, something that only about 1 in 1000 shooters can do repeatedly, Try a CETME at around $500. These are all 7.62 x 51 Nato. If you really want to go cheap try a Spanish Mauser at $169 from Samco or an FR-8 from Gunbroker. That FR-8 will let you know just how powerful the 7.62 x 51 is. It WILL slap you around a little bit.

February 7, 2011, 12:02 AM	#3
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	From my experience, either of the AR based rifles (got 2) should shoot MOA or less with 168 or 175 SMKs. The M1As (got 3) will shoot 2.5 MOA with SMKs and it takes quite a bit of work to tighten up the groups -- bedding, gas cylinder mods, trigger job. And it is easier to mount a scope on the AR-based rifles too.

February 7, 2011, 12:03 AM	#4
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	I think from what I can remember from similar questions, the M1A will be more reliable, but the AR 10 style rifles are more accurate, more ergonomic a lot easier to mount a scope, lots more accessories on the market which are easier to attach and a heck of a lot cheaper. Some one will probably yell at me for saying the M1A is less accurate but the other reasons are certainly true. I'd personally go for the DPMS from that list you gave but Rock River Arms make a 308 AR style rifle which is worth looking into. Those other guns Jimin Texas are also fine rifles but I think they are more battle rifles any wont be as accurate as ones your think about. Also theres bound to be plenty of people that say a bolt action will be cheaper and more accurate, so I may as well say savage make a nice rifle

February 7, 2011, 12:06 AM	#5
ArkansasGunFan Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2011 Posts: 10	Thanks for the quick reply Jimin! I really don't mind paying the extra $$$ if I get something in return. I realize the skill set required to shoot at that distance, and while I may fail trying to achieve my goals, I would still like to know I have the tools needed to accomplish them. (no excuses for me) I have enjoyed reading many of the threads regarding the M1A, the gun definitely has its share of fans. There is something about how the scope rests on the gun that just throws me a bit though.

February 7, 2011, 12:08 AM	#6
ArkansasGunFan Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2011 Posts: 10	I love bolt actions too, but when shooting at a group of hogs, semi automatic is the only way to go

February 7, 2011, 03:13 AM	#7
jeepman4804 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2008 Posts: 216	I own a DPMS AP4 in .308 and it has been great. Reliable and accurate with the ability to use p-mags and good aftermarket support. Make sure you carefully inspect any weapon you buy for defects or flaws. Mine is nice and tight but I have read some reports of some being on the loose side.

February 7, 2011, 05:59 AM	#8
RT Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2000 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 2,194	LaRue OBR or LMT MWS?

February 7, 2011, 08:11 AM	#12
SmokyBaer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 272	First off, the M1As do require a bit of tinkering to make them shoot great. I am a tinkerer so I love mine and really enjoy shooting them. Once dialed in, they can be impressive shooters, especially if you get one of those JAE stocks to place your rifle in. Hopefully, I will be getting one of those this year. About a year ago, I got a great deal on an FNAR which is chambered for 7.62x51 and that puppy shoots straight right out of the box. Have not tweaked anything on it. Just shoot, clean and grease. Yeah, it's kinda ugly until you dress it out with a nice scope and bipod. If you want a great alternative to to an AR platform, the FNAR is hard to beat. Downside is availability of magazines. You have to be patient and jump on a good deal when you find them. Typically, a 20 rounder can be had for $50-55 if you do your part.

February 7, 2011, 10:33 AM	#14
ArkansasGunFan Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2011 Posts: 10	SR420 I would like to keep the rifle under $2k out of the box, but I would also like to get a grouping at 500+ yards out of the box. Am I asking too much? I realize that I will need some mods to make it reach further reliably, but I don't mind putting another $1k after I purchase the rifle and do more research. Also, I think I mentioned before that I am new to "assault style" rifles. One of my big fears is putting a bunch of mods and upgrades on a "sub-par" rifle. (I would never put $6k rims on a $500 car if ya catch my drift) Thanks again for all the replies, really glad I joined the firing line!

February 7, 2011, 10:49 AM	#15
ArkansasGunFan Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2011 Posts: 10	Madcratebuilder, Do you have an opinion on which have a better barrel? I also have to throw the Rock River LAR-8 into the mix now after being informed on it recently