A Suggestion for a new forum: C&R

Rome · March 7, 2001, 08:00 AM

Ok, ok. I admit that I'm a brand spanking new C&R holder and, being a newbie, am really excited about the prospects that have opened up to me. So, with that in mind, I'd like to suggest a C&R forum. It could become a good clearing house for the latest data regarding C&R, could help clarify some of the misconceptions about C&R, and could also be a good place to post for C&R resources. I feel that it would also generate more interest in obtaining a C&R by those who might never give it a second thought.

I've spent the past two "snow days" wringing out the web searching for C&R related sources and am really surprized as to just how little I was able to find. With a forum dedicated for C&R holders or anyone else interested, we'd be able to share information, both good and bad, and what pitfalls to avoid. When is a normally valid C&R weapon become invalid? Where and with whom should C&R holders file their licenses? What kind of record keeping do you use? How to buy, how to sell. What's junk and what's a jewel. Swapping data, etc., etc.

So, staff, wadaya think? Maybe you could even try it on a temporary basis. I stop by this web usually once a day and I'd love to be able to peruse a section dedicated to C&R if you feel that it would make sence and not be redundant.

Thanks for the oppourtunity to post this suggestion. I really enjoy this website and have been "saved" many times by the experts and enthusiests who have replyed to my quiries.

Rome

TheBluesMan · March 7, 2001, 04:20 PM

I kinda like the idea.

I'm sure that there would be overlap, as there are C&R guns that would fall under the Revolver, Semi-auto, Rifle, Shotgun, Full Auto, etc., etc. forum categories. But C&R guns have something in common, like blackpowder guns do; and we have a separate forum for them.

Let's see what kind of response we get from the rest of the membership on this topic. If there's widespread interest, it's *usually* a possibility as far as Rich is concerned.

Rome · March 7, 2001, 04:29 PM

Hey, thanks for being receptive. I agree that there would be an overlap but I see this forum to be more along the lines of a technical discussion and information exchange about Curios and Relics. And, as I mentioned in my first post, this would be a good place to ferret out sources for those looking for particular pieces to fill out a collection and pieces. The most current C&R lists could be discussed or explained, and hopefully, other TFLers would get their C&R to help preserve the WWII and earlier firearms. Ya know, in California, people get tax credits for turning in their old, collectable cars and haveing them crushed. I can easliy see in the future where some scummy politician offers much the same deal: a tax credit for a turn-in. Eventually, old rifles will start to disappear just like the old cars. The C&R is the best hedge against losing this important part of our heritage.

I appreciate the help and interest. If the idea dies on the vine then so be it. At least we gave it a shot. (geeze I hate using that metaphor!)

Rome

HankL · March 7, 2001, 08:01 PM

I kinda like the idea myself!
Best Regards

Lance · March 7, 2001, 08:09 PM

So, how do you go about getting a C&R license?
Sorry if its a dumb question,
Lance

TheBluesMan · March 7, 2001, 09:02 PM

Not a dumb question at all, Lance.

I've just spent the last 20 minutes crawling all over the ATF's website looking for an answer to your very good question. I must be blind, 'cause I can't find it.

So... I'd like to see an answer to that question too. How'd you get yours, Rome?

Rome · March 7, 2001, 09:40 PM

Well, see? This is where a C&R forum would be of great help!

The very easiest way to obtain a C&R is to call your "local" BATF office and ask them for an application. (They're in all phone books.) Don't be concerned! Regardless of your political feelings about them, they hold the key and I must say that they were very affible when I called them. I got my application in the mail the very next day.

The form consists of one legal sized page, two copies. One you complete with very rudimentary info and sign at the top of the back side of the page. The second copy you're supposed to send to the "CLEO" (chief law enforcement officer) for his info. To make sure my app was attended to promptly, I asked for an appointment with our local Chief and asked him to sign his form for me and mailed it in with my app. Unless I'm wrong, the ATF only requires you to alert him to the fact that you're applying, as far as I can see.

Finally you mail the app to the ATF in Dallas TX with $30 for a three year lic. In about 3 weeks, you should get your lic in the mail and you're good to go! It is really that simple.

Frankly, if you like firearms, especially WWII military rifles and pistols, you are really hamstringing yourself by not applying and obtaining your own C&R. A C&R covers other weapons as well, however. In the past few days, I've found that having one is really attractive to importers and suppliers. Again, a C&R forum would help many owners like myself walk through the proceedures properly and confidently.

Hope this helps. Maybe we'll see a new forum soon; at least a temporary one to try out!

Rome

PS: Maybe if I'm successful in provoking a new forum, I try to convince TFL to install a basic spell checker! I know I could use it!)

TheBluesMan · March 7, 2001, 10:10 PM

Thanks, Rome. I am surprised that it was that easy.

And speek for yoursself about that spel cheker feechur. You might need it, but I don't.

BobR · March 8, 2001, 01:57 PM

Hi Guys,

this site will answer a lot of your questions, as well as tell you how to get a C&R.
A word of advice though, make sure you have plenty of room on your credit cards before getting one, there are just to many guns out there that need to be saved!!

http://www.cruffler.com

Gunslinger · March 8, 2001, 07:00 PM

I'd like to know more about C&R's, the list of approved guns and etc. and would enjoy perusing a forum dedicated to the subject. Although I would have nothing to contribute since I know next to nothing about it I think I could learn a lot.

Rome · March 8, 2001, 07:33 PM

With over 2000 posts to TFL, I'll be there is a lot you actually know. I know that I've learned a lot from your posts.

R

Lance · March 8, 2001, 07:38 PM

Hi All, I called the BATF tax guys today, they said they would send the forms right out, I asked how long it takes, was told 3 to 4 months?

WOW, what has anyone else experienced?
KYSOTI, Lance

Rome · March 8, 2001, 07:43 PM

I'm certainly no expert but I'd say absolutely not three months. Three weeks is what I think they meant to say. No one I've talked to has had to wait that long ever; unless they had some problem in their record.
R

SLK978 · March 8, 2001, 09:03 PM

I'm in the process of getting my c&r ffl and think a forum is a great idea. Lance - go to http://www.cruffler.com and click on "becoming a cruffler." The BATF forms are available for downloading in Adobe pdf format.

Lance · March 9, 2001, 07:25 AM

Thats what they said, I would guess by the attitude of the person I spoke with, it was a "don't call and bug us" answer.
Lance

Rome · March 9, 2001, 07:32 AM

Lance,

Your application will be mailed to Dallas TX which is NOT who you talked to most likely. The ATF people I spoke to here in New England were helpful and forthcoming. Let us know when you get you application in the mail. The day you mail it out, mark your calender for three weeks and I'll bet you coffee and a donut you have it in your hands soon after.

R

**Bud Helms** · March 9, 2001, 07:55 AM

I'd visit a C&R forum. I am always running across some old rifle or revolver and wondering if it can be ordered with a C&R license. Let's try it for a month and see.

Caeca Invidia Es · March 9, 2001, 08:16 AM

I have to agree here. The more I see this thread the more I like the idea.

CRUFFLER.COM · March 9, 2001, 02:39 PM

While you're at it, remember to visit us at http://www.cruffler.com - we are the only online periodical dedicated to the military, surplus, and C&R community. If there are any changes or inclusions you'd like to see, please let us know - [email protected]

Kindest regards,

Adam Firestone

**Bud Helms** · March 9, 2001, 08:00 PM

Is that the new moderator? ...

Rome · March 9, 2001, 08:16 PM

Dear Adam,

The only reason I found your site was because someone here recommended it to me. I'm hoping that more info can be shared in this forum and expose more of the true TFLers to the C&R world. If you like firearms, you must find this interesting to some extent.

I really liked your site as it is aimed at the C&R holder. (BTW, I'm always fascinated by must how much vernacular from firearms have found their way into the English language!) Hopefully, more and more collectors and enthusiasts will find themselves pursuing the C&R license just as I have. Ultimately, if more gun enthusiasts become involved, it can't help preserve our hobby and the history of the gun along with it. The knowledge base will increase, the younger generation will be exposed to the history and aura surrounding C&R weapons, and a whole host of things could follow: parts becoming more available, more history, more data, etc., etc.

Your website is only one that I've found that caters just to the C&R holder. Hopefully you'll have some competition.

Willie(?)Sutton, a famous bank robber, was once asked why he robbed banks. His answer, as I'm sure you all know was, "It's because that's were the money is." TFL is where the gun enthusiast are and we come to chat, learn, explore, and make a fool of ourselves once and a while without fear or retribution. Exposing all of them to C&R more actively can only help us all.

Rome

Lance · March 10, 2001, 07:48 AM

Quote:

The day you mail it out, mark
your calender for three weeks and I'll bet you coffee and a donut you have it in your
hands soon after.

Ok, I will mark it, and if it comes back close to 3 weeks, you win, a coffee and a dognut shouldn't take too big a bite out of my C&R budget.

Lance

Lance · March 17, 2001, 02:37 PM

Ok, I called BATF in Detroit on Thursday, Mar. 8th.
They said they would put it in the mail.
Jackson is next day, first class mail from Detroit.
Called them again on Wed. Mar 14, and was told again, they would send it.
Recived it on Friday, Mar 16.
So, I filled it out, than noticed it was differant that the form I saw on the internet.
My form is dated approved 12/31/96
The one on the internet is dated 6-97, and says next to the date, that "PREVIOUS EDITION IS OBSOLETE"
WOW, I guess this might take 3 to 4 months afterall.
I am going to call the Atlanta Toll Free number Monday, and get the skinny.

Lance

Rome · March 17, 2001, 03:44 PM

Great! Know I know why I never bet! After our conversation, I spoke to a number of other C&R holders and the vast majority of them said three weeks or so, but a few did take longer. Oh well, let me know what kind of donut you like.

R

Lance · March 17, 2001, 08:36 PM

Ok Rome, let's go double, 6 weeks, looks like I would be happy to have it done in six weeks the way its going

What the heck, springs almost here, only got 3 inches of snow overnight

Take care, Lance

March 7, 2001, 04:29 PM	#3
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	C&R forum Hey, thanks for being receptive. I agree that there would be an overlap but I see this forum to be more along the lines of a technical discussion and information exchange about Curios and Relics. And, as I mentioned in my first post, this would be a good place to ferret out sources for those looking for particular pieces to fill out a collection and pieces. The most current C&R lists could be discussed or explained, and hopefully, other TFLers would get their C&R to help preserve the WWII and earlier firearms. Ya know, in California, people get tax credits for turning in their old, collectable cars and haveing them crushed. I can easliy see in the future where some scummy politician offers much the same deal: a tax credit for a turn-in. Eventually, old rifles will start to disappear just like the old cars. The C&R is the best hedge against losing this important part of our heritage. I appreciate the help and interest. If the idea dies on the vine then so be it. At least we gave it a shot. (geeze I hate using that metaphor!) Rome

March 7, 2001, 08:01 PM	#4
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	I kinda like the idea myself! Best Regards __________________ Check 6

March 7, 2001, 08:09 PM	#5
Lance Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 77	How do you get C&R? So, how do you go about getting a C&R license? Sorry if its a dumb question, Lance

March 7, 2001, 09:40 PM	#7
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	C&R lic. Well, see? This is where a C&R forum would be of great help! The very easiest way to obtain a C&R is to call your "local" BATF office and ask them for an application. (They're in all phone books.) Don't be concerned! Regardless of your political feelings about them, they hold the key and I must say that they were very affible when I called them. I got my application in the mail the very next day. The form consists of one legal sized page, two copies. One you complete with very rudimentary info and sign at the top of the back side of the page. The second copy you're supposed to send to the "CLEO" (chief law enforcement officer) for his info. To make sure my app was attended to promptly, I asked for an appointment with our local Chief and asked him to sign his form for me and mailed it in with my app. Unless I'm wrong, the ATF only requires you to alert him to the fact that you're applying, as far as I can see. Finally you mail the app to the ATF in Dallas TX with $30 for a three year lic. In about 3 weeks, you should get your lic in the mail and you're good to go! It is really that simple. Frankly, if you like firearms, especially WWII military rifles and pistols, you are really hamstringing yourself by not applying and obtaining your own C&R. A C&R covers other weapons as well, however. In the past few days, I've found that having one is really attractive to importers and suppliers. Again, a C&R forum would help many owners like myself walk through the proceedures properly and confidently. Hope this helps. Maybe we'll see a new forum soon; at least a temporary one to try out! Rome PS: Maybe if I'm successful in provoking a new forum, I try to convince TFL to install a basic spell checker! I know I could use it!)

March 8, 2001, 01:57 PM	#9
BobR Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2000 Location: The Dry Side of WA Posts: 561	Hi Guys, this site will answer a lot of your questions, as well as tell you how to get a C&R. A word of advice though, make sure you have plenty of room on your credit cards before getting one, there are just to many guns out there that need to be saved!! http://www.cruffler.com __________________ Sarcasm.....just one more service I offer.

March 7, 2001, 08:00 AM	#1
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	Ok, ok. I admit that I'm a brand spanking new C&R holder and, being a newbie, am really excited about the prospects that have opened up to me. So, with that in mind, I'd like to suggest a C&R forum. It could become a good clearing house for the latest data regarding C&R, could help clarify some of the misconceptions about C&R, and could also be a good place to post for C&R resources. I feel that it would also generate more interest in obtaining a C&R by those who might never give it a second thought. I've spent the past two "snow days" wringing out the web searching for C&R related sources and am really surprized as to just how little I was able to find. With a forum dedicated for C&R holders or anyone else interested, we'd be able to share information, both good and bad, and what pitfalls to avoid. When is a normally valid C&R weapon become invalid? Where and with whom should C&R holders file their licenses? What kind of record keeping do you use? How to buy, how to sell. What's junk and what's a jewel. Swapping data, etc., etc. So, staff, wadaya think? Maybe you could even try it on a temporary basis. I stop by this web usually once a day and I'd love to be able to peruse a section dedicated to C&R if you feel that it would make sence and not be redundant. Thanks for the oppourtunity to post this suggestion. I really enjoy this website and have been "saved" many times by the experts and enthusiests who have replyed to my quiries. Rome

March 7, 2001, 04:20 PM	#2
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	I kinda like the idea. I'm sure that there would be overlap, as there are C&R guns that would fall under the Revolver, Semi-auto, Rifle, Shotgun, Full Auto, etc., etc. forum categories. But C&R guns have something in common, like blackpowder guns do; and we have a separate forum for them. Let's see what kind of response we get from the rest of the membership on this topic. If there's widespread interest, it's usually a possibility as far as Rich is concerned.

March 7, 2001, 09:02 PM	#6
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	Not a dumb question at all, Lance. I've just spent the last 20 minutes crawling all over the ATF's website looking for an answer to your very good question. I must be blind, 'cause I can't find it. So... I'd like to see an answer to that question too. How'd you get yours, Rome?

March 7, 2001, 10:10 PM	#8
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	Thanks, Rome. I am surprised that it was that easy. And speek for yoursself about that spel cheker feechur. You might need it, but I don't.

March 8, 2001, 07:00 PM	#10
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	I'd like to know more about C&R's, the list of approved guns and etc. and would enjoy perusing a forum dedicated to the subject. Although I would have nothing to contribute since I know next to nothing about it I think I could learn a lot.

March 8, 2001, 07:33 PM	#11
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	With over 2000 posts to TFL, I'll be there is a lot you actually know. I know that I've learned a lot from your posts. R

March 8, 2001, 07:38 PM	#12
Lance Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 77	Wait 3 to 4 months for C&R? Hi All, I called the BATF tax guys today, they said they would send the forms right out, I asked how long it takes, was told 3 to 4 months? WOW, what has anyone else experienced? KYSOTI, Lance

March 8, 2001, 07:43 PM	#13
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	I'm certainly no expert but I'd say absolutely not three months. Three weeks is what I think they meant to say. No one I've talked to has had to wait that long ever; unless they had some problem in their record. R

March 8, 2001, 09:03 PM	#14
SLK978 Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 15	I'm in the process of getting my c&r ffl and think a forum is a great idea. Lance - go to http://www.cruffler.com and click on "becoming a cruffler." The BATF forms are available for downloading in Adobe pdf format.

March 9, 2001, 07:25 AM	#15
Lance Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 77	3 to 4 Months Thats what they said, I would guess by the attitude of the person I spoke with, it was a "don't call and bug us" answer. Lance

March 9, 2001, 07:32 AM	#16
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	Lance, Your application will be mailed to Dallas TX which is NOT who you talked to most likely. The ATF people I spoke to here in New England were helpful and forthcoming. Let us know when you get you application in the mail. The day you mail it out, mark your calender for three weeks and I'll bet you coffee and a donut you have it in your hands soon after. R

March 9, 2001, 07:55 AM	#17
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I'd visit a C&R forum. I am always running across some old rifle or revolver and wondering if it can be ordered with a C&R license. Let's try it for a month and see.

March 9, 2001, 08:16 AM	#18
Caeca Invidia Es Staff Alumnus Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Earth Posts: 834	I have to agree here. The more I see this thread the more I like the idea. __________________ MOLON LABE! I don't approve of political jokes, I've seen too many of them get elected.

March 9, 2001, 02:39 PM	#19
CRUFFLER.COM Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: Alexandria, VA, USA Posts: 16	C&R Forum? While you're at it, remember to visit us at http://www.cruffler.com - we are the only online periodical dedicated to the military, surplus, and C&R community. If there are any changes or inclusions you'd like to see, please let us know - [email protected] Kindest regards, Adam Firestone __________________ Adam C. Firestone Editor-in-Chief, CRUFFLER.COM http://www.cruffler.com

March 9, 2001, 08:00 PM	#20
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Is that the new moderator? ...

March 9, 2001, 08:16 PM	#21
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	Dear Adam, The only reason I found your site was because someone here recommended it to me. I'm hoping that more info can be shared in this forum and expose more of the true TFLers to the C&R world. If you like firearms, you must find this interesting to some extent. I really liked your site as it is aimed at the C&R holder. (BTW, I'm always fascinated by must how much vernacular from firearms have found their way into the English language!) Hopefully, more and more collectors and enthusiasts will find themselves pursuing the C&R license just as I have. Ultimately, if more gun enthusiasts become involved, it can't help preserve our hobby and the history of the gun along with it. The knowledge base will increase, the younger generation will be exposed to the history and aura surrounding C&R weapons, and a whole host of things could follow: parts becoming more available, more history, more data, etc., etc. Your website is only one that I've found that caters just to the C&R holder. Hopefully you'll have some competition. Willie(?)Sutton, a famous bank robber, was once asked why he robbed banks. His answer, as I'm sure you all know was, "It's because that's were the money is." TFL is where the gun enthusiast are and we come to chat, learn, explore, and make a fool of ourselves once and a while without fear or retribution. Exposing all of them to C&R more actively can only help us all. Rome

March 17, 2001, 02:37 PM	#23
Lance Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 77	C&R at a snails pace Ok, I called BATF in Detroit on Thursday, Mar. 8th. They said they would put it in the mail. Jackson is next day, first class mail from Detroit. Called them again on Wed. Mar 14, and was told again, they would send it. Recived it on Friday, Mar 16. So, I filled it out, than noticed it was differant that the form I saw on the internet. My form is dated approved 12/31/96 The one on the internet is dated 6-97, and says next to the date, that "PREVIOUS EDITION IS OBSOLETE" WOW, I guess this might take 3 to 4 months afterall. I am going to call the Atlanta Toll Free number Monday, and get the skinny. Lance

March 17, 2001, 03:44 PM	#24
Rome Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Connecticut Posts: 420	Great! Know I know why I never bet! After our conversation, I spoke to a number of other C&R holders and the vast majority of them said three weeks or so, but a few did take longer. Oh well, let me know what kind of donut you like. R

March 17, 2001, 08:36 PM	#25
Lance Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 77	Lets go double or nothing Ok Rome, let's go double, 6 weeks, looks like I would be happy to have it done in six weeks the way its going What the heck, springs almost here, only got 3 inches of snow overnight Take care, Lance