And they say we are the ones who don't need hi-cap mags... - Page 3

jimpeel · August 8, 2001, 03:00 PM

Here is the audio of the radio transmissions during the "shootout". http://sanantoniolightning.com/final1.rm

At ~1:25 a transmission states "Cox is down!"

MellowMikey · August 8, 2001, 08:37 PM

RIP Ofc Cox.

Now the question I have isn't why SWAT was there, but exactly what they fired 369 rounds at? What target ID did they have to unleash all those rounds at and yet not take care of the problem.
Was there even any target ID or was it a spray and pray scenario?

Southla1 · August 9, 2001, 12:34 PM

"Okay, homework for tonight: Bearing in mind that when I say "talking to me" I am not interrogating you, nor am I seeking to trick you into testifying against yourself -- I am merely seeking your side of the story. Keeping that in mind, show me the relevant passage in the Bill of Rights you reference in the above quote." ................ I have to agree with 1 Patriot-of-many opn this one. Yes I respect the law..........just not all of the enforcers of the law. Some (even though a minority) should never pin on a badge. I was also amused by the fact that JUST before I read this thread I read the one named ..............."Just say no to the FBI and police" and lo and behold there is the part that says one trick to get information is "I just want your side of the story". That thread is in here...general discusion forum.

Justin Moore · August 12, 2001, 12:43 AM

New Lubbock SWAT motto:

"Come out immediately, or we'll start shooting EACH OTHER"

I heard a reporter from the San Antonio Lightning state that Robisons 'weapons' were actually a collection of blackpowder, muzzle loaders.

OOOO, 'assault muskets'

444 · August 12, 2001, 01:13 AM

"It sound slike a "mad minute" and I am not convinced that is an appopriate tactic for law enforcement." I know that this isn't an appropriate tactic for law enforcement. They didn't have a clearly defined target or they would have killed him. It sounds like they were just firing blindly into the building. What kind of danger does something like this place the general public in when the police are just firing blindly ? I have been on numerous calls with SWAT and they certainly carry ordinance that will penetrate the walls of a house. These guys are supposed to be highly trained, the cream of the crop and they can't kill the guy with 369 rounds fired. Totally irresponsible, totally shameful.
" What happens if they come back an hour later and it's the wife on top of the fire?" This statement assumes that the wife was still in the house. I don't know, but if that is the case it is even more shamful that SWAT would fire blindly into a house with "innocent" bystanders inside. (Scratch this, I didn't realize that this thread had three pages and it was mentioned that the wife and kids were out of the house).
This makes me sick. These guys are totally out of control. This is where the expression Jack Booted Thugs comes into play.

TexasVet · August 12, 2001, 01:21 AM

Anyone else wonder where all those other rounds (besides the one that killed Officer Cox) went. I bet the neighbors have a few lawsuits gearing up, too.

Justin Moore · August 12, 2001, 02:11 AM

Quote:

"Come out immediately, or we'll start shooting EACH OTHER"

I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. You don't mind? Good

Its SHOULD have been:

"Come out immediately, or we'll start shooting EACH OTHER and some innocent bystanders in the neighborhood"

If you can't pass an IQ test, you shouldn't have a machinegun, and a black ski mask

Dangus · August 12, 2001, 12:14 PM

Thank God that they at least only killed each other, considering the horrendous misconduct in this case it is a miracle they didn't wipe out half the neighborhood.

EchoFiveMike · August 12, 2001, 12:40 PM

OK several problems that I have with this scenario.

1. No positive ID of target in order to return fire. I, as a Marine in a foreign country, get to fire suppressively. LEO does NOT because he ain't in some 3rd world pest hole, he's in America and those bullets go somewhere!

2. Too many people on site. One man, you should have maybe 6 guys at best on the entry party, maybe one or two DM's with bolt guns to provide surveilence.

3. 369 rds fired? That better than 13 mags full of 30rds per. Like I said, too many people on site, or somebody is really going to town.

Every officer involved with this should be fired, if only for being too weak to say that it was a dumb idea. Problem with hiring a bunch of young kids for police officers is that they don't have the experience or the self esteem to realize somethings screwed and to do something about it. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

444 · August 13, 2001, 12:44 AM

As I read that story, I kept thinking about the movie; Schindler's List. The part where the Nazis are clearing out the Warsaw ghetto. They are running through an apartment building firing submachine guns through the ceiling to kill anyone in the room above. These SWAT officers are no better than the Nazis that stormed the Warsaw ghetto. And they have the same mentality. We have no room for these trigger happy thugs in our society.

August 8, 2001, 03:00 PM	#51
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	Here's the audio Here is the audio of the radio transmissions during the "shootout". http://sanantoniolightning.com/final1.rm At ~1:25 a transmission states "Cox is down!" __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

August 8, 2001, 08:37 PM	#52
MellowMikey Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2000 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 271	RIP Ofc Cox. Now the question I have isn't why SWAT was there, but exactly what they fired 369 rounds at? What target ID did they have to unleash all those rounds at and yet not take care of the problem. Was there even any target ID or was it a spray and pray scenario? __________________ Peace, Mikey Thank you for not breeding.

August 12, 2001, 12:43 AM	#54
Justin Moore Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2000 Location: Right Here Posts: 854	New Lubbock SWAT motto: "Come out immediately, or we'll start shooting EACH OTHER" I heard a reporter from the San Antonio Lightning state that Robisons 'weapons' were actually a collection of blackpowder, muzzle loaders. OOOO, 'assault muskets' __________________ Democracy: A government of the masses, authority derived through mass meetings or any other form of direct expression; results in mobocracy; attitude toward property is communistic negating property rights; attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences; its result is dem-o-gogism, license, agitation, discontent and anarchy. Republic: Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best suited to represent them. Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights and a sensible economic procedure. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles that establish evidence with a strict regard for consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass, it avoids the dangerous extremes of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice contentment and progress, is a standard for government around the world.

August 12, 2001, 01:13 AM	#55
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	"It sound slike a "mad minute" and I am not convinced that is an appopriate tactic for law enforcement." I know that this isn't an appropriate tactic for law enforcement. They didn't have a clearly defined target or they would have killed him. It sounds like they were just firing blindly into the building. What kind of danger does something like this place the general public in when the police are just firing blindly ? I have been on numerous calls with SWAT and they certainly carry ordinance that will penetrate the walls of a house. These guys are supposed to be highly trained, the cream of the crop and they can't kill the guy with 369 rounds fired. Totally irresponsible, totally shameful. " What happens if they come back an hour later and it's the wife on top of the fire?" This statement assumes that the wife was still in the house. I don't know, but if that is the case it is even more shamful that SWAT would fire blindly into a house with "innocent" bystanders inside. (Scratch this, I didn't realize that this thread had three pages and it was mentioned that the wife and kids were out of the house). This makes me sick. These guys are totally out of control. This is where the expression Jack Booted Thugs comes into play. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load. Last edited by 444; August 12, 2001 at 01:58 AM.

August 12, 2001, 01:21 AM	#56
TexasVet Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2000 Location: DeepEastTexas Posts: 1,096	Anyone else wonder where all those other rounds (besides the one that killed Officer Cox) went. I bet the neighbors have a few lawsuits gearing up, too. __________________ Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 68-70 You are What you do When it counts.

August 9, 2001, 12:34 PM	#53
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	"Okay, homework for tonight: Bearing in mind that when I say "talking to me" I am not interrogating you, nor am I seeking to trick you into testifying against yourself -- I am merely seeking your side of the story. Keeping that in mind, show me the relevant passage in the Bill of Rights you reference in the above quote." ................ I have to agree with 1 Patriot-of-many opn this one. Yes I respect the law..........just not all of the enforcers of the law. Some (even though a minority) should never pin on a badge. I was also amused by the fact that JUST before I read this thread I read the one named ..............."Just say no to the FBI and police" and lo and behold there is the part that says one trick to get information is "I just want your side of the story". That thread is in here...general discusion forum.

August 12, 2001, 12:14 PM	#58
Dangus Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2000 Location: IA Posts: 1,907	Thank God that they at least only killed each other, considering the horrendous misconduct in this case it is a miracle they didn't wipe out half the neighborhood. __________________ Help Fight Cancer I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist "Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them."

August 12, 2001, 12:40 PM	#59
EchoFiveMike Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 416	OK several problems that I have with this scenario. 1. No positive ID of target in order to return fire. I, as a Marine in a foreign country, get to fire suppressively. LEO does NOT because he ain't in some 3rd world pest hole, he's in America and those bullets go somewhere! 2. Too many people on site. One man, you should have maybe 6 guys at best on the entry party, maybe one or two DM's with bolt guns to provide surveilence. 3. 369 rds fired? That better than 13 mags full of 30rds per. Like I said, too many people on site, or somebody is really going to town. Every officer involved with this should be fired, if only for being too weak to say that it was a dumb idea. Problem with hiring a bunch of young kids for police officers is that they don't have the experience or the self esteem to realize somethings screwed and to do something about it. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

August 13, 2001, 12:44 AM	#60
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	As I read that story, I kept thinking about the movie; Schindler's List. The part where the Nazis are clearing out the Warsaw ghetto. They are running through an apartment building firing submachine guns through the ceiling to kill anyone in the room above. These SWAT officers are no better than the Nazis that stormed the Warsaw ghetto. And they have the same mentality. We have no room for these trigger happy thugs in our society. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

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