Selecting a HD shotgun...

Mokumbear · January 7, 2012, 08:29 PM

I have been considering choosing a shotgun as my HD weapon.

My problem, while I have read extensively on them, I have never shot one
and all my experience is with handguns.

Would something like the Remington 870 Express Synthetic 12GA, 18 Inch, Fixed Cylinder be just fine? Is there really need to spend the extra money for the police model?

Does fixed cylinder mean no choke?
Is that just fine if it will only be used for HD (no hunting or skeet).

I am not clear on the finish on these.
Bud's says "black"?
I live in a humid area and don't want to invest in rust.

The other problem is that, last time I checked, my local range will only allow you to use low recoil slugs. The only local outdoor range is not oriented
to CQC use, more like hunting distances.

I have realized after much research that a shotgun is preferable to an AK
for HD. They sure look cool but between over penetration and the
laws that require it to be a cobbled together mix of one factory abroad and then "re-militarizing" with a certain percentage of US parts turns me off.

Where to start, what to do?

idek · January 7, 2012, 08:57 PM

This is a description of the police model: Blued or Parkerized steel with satin walnut, stained hardwood, or synthetic stocks. Action parts are heavy-duty and these models receive extra care and inspections during assembly. Also has an extended tube magazine.

The extra shot capacity may be very important, or it may not be important at all depending on the situation.

Cylinder does indeed mean no choke. As such, which ammo you choose determines how tight your patterns are. For example, Federal buckshot with Flight Control wads tend to give very tight patterns out of cylinder chokes.

I think a lot of 870s have the parkerized finish instead of blued these days. I can't comment on which is more rust resistant.

jrothWA · January 7, 2012, 09:10 PM

Maybe get a regular sporting model and try trap / skeet / sporting clays, just to be practicing with it.

You can buy extra barrels for other uses.

Is there a trap /skeet club that rents shotguns, to get idea what is best for you?

HALL,AUSTIN · January 7, 2012, 09:59 PM

I personally have a maverick model 88(made by mossberg), and you can get an 18inch model. And yes what you described means no choke. But ive hunted in the rain and I have no rust. A more expensive shotgun may be a little better built but I can trust my life to mine to go bang every time I ask it to do so. So if you ask me a maverick model 88 would fit the bill, and I would load it with 00 buck or #4 buck for HD. Just my 2 cents, I may be wrong

TheKlawMan · January 7, 2012, 10:54 PM

The 870 Express is not Parkerized. You can get it with the short barrel and the 2 round extension. There isn't a great difference in the internal parts and the Express would do fine for HD if not for your humidity. If you are concerned with rust I would avoid the black Express.

frigate88 · January 7, 2012, 11:38 PM

Mossberg 500 all the way. It's my pump action hunt gun and HD gun. For HD rounds I use 00 buck instead of slugs. It won't penetrate as far as a slug will.

Lee Lapin · January 8, 2012, 11:45 AM

Would something like the Remington 870 Express Synthetic 12GA, 18 Inch, Fixed Cylinder be just fine?

The shooter matters far more than the choice of shotgun. Most any shotgun will do, if YOU will do. Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJ-p-72p8Y for a great introduction by a world class trainer. And you could do worse than to invest in the DVD, IMHO - https://asaphost.com/thunderranchinc...ary=&keywords=

Where to start, what to do?

Get some trigger time on pump shotguns BEFORE you buy, for starters. Talk to family, friends and co-workers, and see if any of them own pump shotguns and will agree to take you out shooting (hint - you buy the ammo, and offer to pay for range fees if any and for lunch).

If, as I so often hear from new shooters these days, no one you know owns a shotgun, hunts or shoots at all, then don't despair. Look for a gun club in your area and see if they have any kind of outreach program for new shooters. A lot of skeet and trap clubs rent shotguns and some have staff instructors to get new shooters started. You don't want to shoot skeet or trap? Well, it isn't the same kind of shooting as HD, true, but it IS a way to get started learning the basics of shotguns, and get some invaluable trigger time as well.

IMHO anyone considering using an unfamiliar weapon for home defense really needs to get fully up to speed using that weapon before they depend on it in a stressful situation. People ask all the time "what gun is best for HD," and my standard answer is, "use the gun you are best at using and have the most confidence with."

If you're near SE NC, drop me a PM...

arentol · January 13, 2012, 04:00 AM

I went with a Mossberg 500 cruiser. Nice and compact at just under 29 inches, and holds 5+1 shells.

Get that and some low-recoil 00 buck and you are ready to go.

If you are worried about rust you can get the JIC (Just In Case) Mariner version of the cruiser, which comes in stainless steel.

cheyenne'sfinest · January 13, 2012, 04:15 AM

home defense means lethal force against a threat to your home. since it's your HD gun not your HD/skeet/turkey/quail/small game gun all it needs to do is be durable, reliable, pack a punch and fit your needs... o and also be preferrably ugly too. just get the cheapest 870 you can find and accesorize it. or even better try a maverick or a H&R pardner pump or something else inexpensive. it doesn't need to do anything except be scary and kill, they more than fit the bill.

SoilworK777 · January 13, 2012, 07:00 AM

+1 on the 870.

The H&R Protector is about $200.

Savage/Stevens imports a clone of the Ithaca M37 that they call the 350. I have been giving serious consideration to buying one.

zippy13 · January 13, 2012, 10:26 AM

Please, rent or borrow and get some range time with the guns on your short list before you buy.

Willie Lowman · January 13, 2012, 11:22 AM

^^^this^^^

Also, once you buy your gun. Find a place that is giving a Defensive shotgun class. Even if you have to drive for hours to get to it, do it. The trap and skeet clubs are a great place to learn to swing your shotgun but they don't teach you much about defensive shooting.

hogdogs · January 13, 2012, 11:57 AM

Zip and Lee are headin' you straight! After you buy your gun... For every 15 round box or 2 of cheap full power 00 buck and/or slugs you buy FOR PRACTICE SHOOTING needs a hundred round "brick" of cheap "promo" rounds of 7 1/2 or 8...

As many "reps" of the above as possible will make you and your gun like Ike and Mike if you do your part learnin' and applying your self... Will make the shotgun and yourself into an HD wepon system...

Brent

shortwave · January 13, 2012, 12:48 PM

^^^Agree^^^

As has been stated here on TFL before:

Would rather see a guy with a bare essential, HD shotgun with worn stock and plenty of chamber wear than one of those 'purdy'tricked out, tacticool jobs with little to no wear.

dalegribble · January 13, 2012, 01:42 PM

many people like pump shotguns, the sound of a shell being pumped into the chamber will scare the hell outa any bad guy. i have a mossburg 500 that comes with a longer hunting barrel and a shorter defense barrel which makes the gun more versitile......good choice. i have a maverick (mossburg) 20" combat model, 8 shot which is great but not as well suited for hunting.
i also have a tristar viper semi auto combat shotgun. it has a better recoil pad and semi autos are supposed to be less felt recoil. i have a double barrel coach gun that has been a great choice since the old west.

i recommend whatever you get be a 12 gauge. if you are recoil sensetive consider a semi auto with a decent recoil pad. there are many brands out there, the ones i have listed have worked well for me.

perrytrails · January 13, 2012, 03:47 PM

http://www.aiptactical.com/

Check this website out. Great guy to deal with. You set it up the way you want, or buy a package that is already setup and priced.

He builds these for law enforcement, upgrading parts (which is a plus, but not needed for the average person) and parkerized finsh which is all I think the express lacks. Although anyone who takes care of their items can keep an express from rusting with car wax or taking time to use OIL on it.

The basic model would be all anyone needs for home defense, with a good finish and upgraded parts, I don't think you could wear one out.

I personally purchased a barrel to add to my express. The finsh is really nice, and I plan on getting a basic model soon. You can't have just one

Glenn E. Meyer · January 13, 2012, 04:10 PM

Look for a shotgun class and local matches that use them. Around here we have a shotgun stage after some IDPA matches or three gun matches.

Tom Givens (depending where you are has a great class). I wrote it up for this subforum - you can search here.

They are great weapons but you really need a bit of experience to move beyond the cliche stage. More to it than racking the pump.

Yep, people without training or experience do carry the day but it's good to have some.

k511 · January 13, 2012, 04:52 PM

if your set on a pump i would say 870,,,,BUT if your not set on a pump the remington 11-87 is a nice choice, and IMHO the Benelli M4 is the best choice...

hangglider · January 13, 2012, 05:29 PM

I got an 870 express and added the ATI scorpion pistol grip, stock and forend and a 7 round mag extension (3'' shell; 8 including chambered) and put a simple fiber optic bead on the barrel end (works great--for about $5.00). The whole kit and caboodle costs under $600.00. The AR style stock is nice--I can pound magnum and slugs out it and it really does absorb the load well.

It is devastating to just about anything I aim and shoot at, and I pretty much always hit whatever I'm trying to hit within 100 ft (duh). No other weapon I have is as much fun or reassuring BUT it's got a long barrel and pretty heavy loaded so it might not be ideal for a quick maneuver weapon in close quarters. I'm thinking the brand might not be so important as whether or not you want long or short barrel. I built this before rem came out with their tactical version of the 870--might be worth looking at.

Rob62 · January 18, 2012, 07:54 PM

My very short answer is that the Remington 870 Express Synthetic, 12GA, with 18 Inch barrel will be just fine as is for you.

Even if you live in a humid area, its finish is not rust prone if you wipe it down occasionally with a slicone or gun oil treated rag.

The only thing which I recomend for all HD firearms is to strongly consider getting a Surefire forend light for it. A little pricy but well worth the money spend. And it, like the gun, will last you a lifetime.

Here is one of my Express'. It is a basic older model Express with Surefire forend, 18.5" smooth bore barrel with 27/7 night sights, and Wilson jumbo head safety. Plus some other aftermarket small parts.

January 7, 2012, 08:29 PM	#1
Mokumbear Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2005 Posts: 696	Selecting a HD shotgun... I have been considering choosing a shotgun as my HD weapon. My problem, while I have read extensively on them, I have never shot one and all my experience is with handguns. Would something like the Remington 870 Express Synthetic 12GA, 18 Inch, Fixed Cylinder be just fine? Is there really need to spend the extra money for the police model? Does fixed cylinder mean no choke? Is that just fine if it will only be used for HD (no hunting or skeet). I am not clear on the finish on these. Bud's says "black"? I live in a humid area and don't want to invest in rust. The other problem is that, last time I checked, my local range will only allow you to use low recoil slugs. The only local outdoor range is not oriented to CQC use, more like hunting distances. I have realized after much research that a shotgun is preferable to an AK for HD. They sure look cool but between over penetration and the laws that require it to be a cobbled together mix of one factory abroad and then "re-militarizing" with a certain percentage of US parts turns me off. Where to start, what to do?

January 7, 2012, 09:10 PM	#3
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Welcome, do you expect to sue it for other purposes? Maybe get a regular sporting model and try trap / skeet / sporting clays, just to be practicing with it. You can buy extra barrels for other uses. Is there a trap /skeet club that rents shotguns, to get idea what is best for you?

January 8, 2012, 11:45 AM	#7
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Would something like the Remington 870 Express Synthetic 12GA, 18 Inch, Fixed Cylinder be just fine? The shooter matters far more than the choice of shotgun. Most any shotgun will do, if YOU will do. Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJ-p-72p8Y for a great introduction by a world class trainer. And you could do worse than to invest in the DVD, IMHO - https://asaphost.com/thunderranchinc...ary=&keywords= Where to start, what to do? Get some trigger time on pump shotguns BEFORE you buy, for starters. Talk to family, friends and co-workers, and see if any of them own pump shotguns and will agree to take you out shooting (hint - you buy the ammo, and offer to pay for range fees if any and for lunch). If, as I so often hear from new shooters these days, no one you know owns a shotgun, hunts or shoots at all, then don't despair. Look for a gun club in your area and see if they have any kind of outreach program for new shooters. A lot of skeet and trap clubs rent shotguns and some have staff instructors to get new shooters started. You don't want to shoot skeet or trap? Well, it isn't the same kind of shooting as HD, true, but it IS a way to get started learning the basics of shotguns, and get some invaluable trigger time as well. IMHO anyone considering using an unfamiliar weapon for home defense really needs to get fully up to speed using that weapon before they depend on it in a stressful situation. People ask all the time "what gun is best for HD," and my standard answer is, "use the gun you are best at using and have the most confidence with." If you're near SE NC, drop me a PM... __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill. Last edited by Lee Lapin; January 8, 2012 at 11:53 AM.

January 13, 2012, 11:22 AM	#12
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	^^^this^^^ Also, once you buy your gun. Find a place that is giving a Defensive shotgun class. Even if you have to drive for hours to get to it, do it. The trap and skeet clubs are a great place to learn to swing your shotgun but they don't teach you much about defensive shooting. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

January 13, 2012, 01:42 PM	#15
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	many people like pump shotguns, the sound of a shell being pumped into the chamber will scare the hell outa any bad guy. i have a mossburg 500 that comes with a longer hunting barrel and a shorter defense barrel which makes the gun more versitile......good choice. i have a maverick (mossburg) 20" combat model, 8 shot which is great but not as well suited for hunting. i also have a tristar viper semi auto combat shotgun. it has a better recoil pad and semi autos are supposed to be less felt recoil. i have a double barrel coach gun that has been a great choice since the old west. i recommend whatever you get be a 12 gauge. if you are recoil sensetive consider a semi auto with a decent recoil pad. there are many brands out there, the ones i have listed have worked well for me. __________________ Waltzes with woofs

January 7, 2012, 08:57 PM	#2
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 903	This is a description of the police model: Blued or Parkerized steel with satin walnut, stained hardwood, or synthetic stocks. Action parts are heavy-duty and these models receive extra care and inspections during assembly. Also has an extended tube magazine. The extra shot capacity may be very important, or it may not be important at all depending on the situation. Cylinder does indeed mean no choke. As such, which ammo you choose determines how tight your patterns are. For example, Federal buckshot with Flight Control wads tend to give very tight patterns out of cylinder chokes. I think a lot of 870s have the parkerized finish instead of blued these days. I can't comment on which is more rust resistant.

January 7, 2012, 09:59 PM	#4
HALL,AUSTIN Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: asheville north carolina Posts: 556	I personally have a maverick model 88(made by mossberg), and you can get an 18inch model. And yes what you described means no choke. But ive hunted in the rain and I have no rust. A more expensive shotgun may be a little better built but I can trust my life to mine to go bang every time I ask it to do so. So if you ask me a maverick model 88 would fit the bill, and I would load it with 00 buck or #4 buck for HD. Just my 2 cents, I may be wrong

January 7, 2012, 10:54 PM	#5
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	The 870 Express is not Parkerized. You can get it with the short barrel and the 2 round extension. There isn't a great difference in the internal parts and the Express would do fine for HD if not for your humidity. If you are concerned with rust I would avoid the black Express.

January 7, 2012, 11:38 PM	#6
frigate88 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2011 Location: LOXAHATCHEE, FL Posts: 204	Mossberg 500 all the way. It's my pump action hunt gun and HD gun. For HD rounds I use 00 buck instead of slugs. It won't penetrate as far as a slug will.

January 13, 2012, 04:00 AM	#8
arentol Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Posts: 230	I went with a Mossberg 500 cruiser. Nice and compact at just under 29 inches, and holds 5+1 shells. Get that and some low-recoil 00 buck and you are ready to go. If you are worried about rust you can get the JIC (Just In Case) Mariner version of the cruiser, which comes in stainless steel.

January 13, 2012, 04:15 AM	#9
cheyenne'sfinest Member Join Date: December 29, 2011 Posts: 32	home defense means lethal force against a threat to your home. since it's your HD gun not your HD/skeet/turkey/quail/small game gun all it needs to do is be durable, reliable, pack a punch and fit your needs... o and also be preferrably ugly too. just get the cheapest 870 you can find and accesorize it. or even better try a maverick or a H&R pardner pump or something else inexpensive. it doesn't need to do anything except be scary and kill, they more than fit the bill.

January 13, 2012, 07:00 AM	#10
SoilworK777 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 247	+1 on the 870. The H&R Protector is about $200. Savage/Stevens imports a clone of the Ithaca M37 that they call the 350. I have been giving serious consideration to buying one.

January 13, 2012, 10:26 AM	#11
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Please, rent or borrow and get some range time with the guns on your short list before you buy.

January 13, 2012, 11:57 AM	#13
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Zip and Lee are headin' you straight! After you buy your gun... For every 15 round box or 2 of cheap full power 00 buck and/or slugs you buy FOR PRACTICE SHOOTING needs a hundred round "brick" of cheap "promo" rounds of 7 1/2 or 8... As many "reps" of the above as possible will make you and your gun like Ike and Mike if you do your part learnin' and applying your self... Will make the shotgun and yourself into an HD wepon system... Brent

January 13, 2012, 12:48 PM	#14
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	^^^Agree^^^ As has been stated here on TFL before: Would rather see a guy with a bare essential, HD shotgun with worn stock and plenty of chamber wear than one of those 'purdy'tricked out, tacticool jobs with little to no wear.

January 13, 2012, 03:47 PM	#16
perrytrails Member Join Date: April 4, 2005 Posts: 25	http://www.aiptactical.com/ Check this website out. Great guy to deal with. You set it up the way you want, or buy a package that is already setup and priced. He builds these for law enforcement, upgrading parts (which is a plus, but not needed for the average person) and parkerized finsh which is all I think the express lacks. Although anyone who takes care of their items can keep an express from rusting with car wax or taking time to use OIL on it. The basic model would be all anyone needs for home defense, with a good finish and upgraded parts, I don't think you could wear one out. I personally purchased a barrel to add to my express. The finsh is really nice, and I plan on getting a basic model soon. You can't have just one

January 13, 2012, 04:10 PM	#17
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Look for a shotgun class and local matches that use them. Around here we have a shotgun stage after some IDPA matches or three gun matches. Tom Givens (depending where you are has a great class). I wrote it up for this subforum - you can search here. They are great weapons but you really need a bit of experience to move beyond the cliche stage. More to it than racking the pump. Yep, people without training or experience do carry the day but it's good to have some. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 13, 2012, 04:52 PM	#18
k511 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 461	if your set on a pump i would say 870,,,,BUT if your not set on a pump the remington 11-87 is a nice choice, and IMHO the Benelli M4 is the best choice...

January 13, 2012, 05:29 PM	#19
hangglider Junior member Join Date: December 24, 2011 Posts: 212	I got an 870 express and added the ATI scorpion pistol grip, stock and forend and a 7 round mag extension (3'' shell; 8 including chambered) and put a simple fiber optic bead on the barrel end (works great--for about $5.00). The whole kit and caboodle costs under $600.00. The AR style stock is nice--I can pound magnum and slugs out it and it really does absorb the load well. It is devastating to just about anything I aim and shoot at, and I pretty much always hit whatever I'm trying to hit within 100 ft (duh). No other weapon I have is as much fun or reassuring BUT it's got a long barrel and pretty heavy loaded so it might not be ideal for a quick maneuver weapon in close quarters. I'm thinking the brand might not be so important as whether or not you want long or short barrel. I built this before rem came out with their tactical version of the 870--might be worth looking at.

January 18, 2012, 07:54 PM	#20
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	My very short answer is that the Remington 870 Express Synthetic, 12GA, with 18 Inch barrel will be just fine as is for you. Even if you live in a humid area, its finish is not rust prone if you wipe it down occasionally with a slicone or gun oil treated rag. The only thing which I recomend for all HD firearms is to strongly consider getting a Surefire forend light for it. A little pricy but well worth the money spend. And it, like the gun, will last you a lifetime. Here is one of my Express'. It is a basic older model Express with Surefire forend, 18.5" smooth bore barrel with 27/7 night sights, and Wilson jumbo head safety. Plus some other aftermarket small parts. __________________ NRA & NAHC Life Member