What Went Wrong? - Page 3

roy reali · November 3, 2010, 07:38 AM

Quote:

The fact that it may last longer is a bonus.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? I know that cars and guns are not the same thing. But some of the less expensive cars last longer and have fewer problems then the expensive ones.

If a gun is being discussed here that I have no personal, hands-on experience with, I refrain from comments. But thats me.

oneounceload · November 3, 2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

btw- How long does a comp gun last? How many rounds do you go through in a given period?

I have seen and know serious competitors who have hundreds of thousands of rounds through their guns. I have about 100,000 through my Browning now. One person's Kreighoff has seen use for 12 years, averaging 25,000/year. That's not to say a firing pin here or there might not need replacing or a spring or two, but that is minor.

I am NOT a serious competitor - shoot for fun - and I will easily shoot 10-12,000 shells a year. Olympic hopefuls and champs will eclipse that in a matter of a few weeks

.300 Weatherby Mag · November 3, 2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

How long does a comp gun last?

The beauty of a true competition gun is that parts are easily replaceable and the gun itself is easily rebuildable.. The various wear points all have replaceable parts..

musicmatty · November 3, 2010, 09:32 AM

I don't see the point in comparing Competition guns with affordable everyday work horses?? I would assume that a Comp gun is like a race car you could buy out of the showroom but the one that is used for the track is tuned for the track with much more under the hood for the task ahead.

I would be most interested in seeing 3 skilled people in competition with a Win a Rem and a Moss pump and see what they could do with the everyday work horse...just my opinion and curiosity. I would guess that most people who own guns for some target shooting and hunting and of course home defense, don't shoot several thousand rounds a year thru there guns. Again..everyday work horse guns being compared to a Comp gun seems to be an uneducated argument.

oneounceload · November 3, 2010, 10:30 AM

Why would you think a competition Perazzi, Kreighoff, Browning or Beretta are NOT everyday guns? or workhorses?..Ask Kim Rhodes how many shots she takes every day to keep her skill levels at Olympic Gold caliber - she shoots more in a week than most will do in a year - how does that not make her gun an everyday workhorse?

BigJimP · November 3, 2010, 10:53 AM

This concept that you need to own every gun discussed on this forum - or you shouldn't comment is nonsense ... Shotguns are one of my hobbies - and I talk to a lot of shooters, see a lot of guns, talk to a lot of retailers ...and based on what I see, I make appropriate comments.

I appreciate a good pump gun, a good side by side or a good semi-auto - but my "every week" - "work gun/fun gun" is a Browning Citori XS Skeet model.

I shoot that same model O/U for Skeet, Sporting Clays and some bird hunting. Today, with the adj comb, the Citori XS Skeet is roughly a $3,000 shotgun ....and in my view its very much an entry level gun in terms of even casual competition shooting / and I would not consider it capable of being a gun that would allow me to shoot my best in serious competition.

If I was 25 yrs younger, had better eyes and less orthopedic issues - and wanted to compete / Blaser, Perazzi, Kolar and Krieghoff would be on my short list - with a carrier barrel and a 12ga barrel - and a complete set of sub-gague tubes and screw in chokes - with a budget of around $15 - $30K probably.

Even as a casual shooter, I still go thru around 7500 shells a year. A few years back / when I was shooting competitively in sporting clays it was about 25,000 - 35,000 shells a year. Most of my Citori XS Skeet models have at least 100,000 shells thru them - some of them over 250,000 shells ...and I have 5 of them (2 in 12ga, 1 in 20ga, 1 in 28ga and 1 in .410 , and they're all holding up real well).

zippy13 · November 3, 2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

The fact that it may last longer is a bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Roy,
It's more of an observation, than a conclusion. When I bought by first comp gun, it was because I'd peaked with the generic target gun I'd been using for years. I shot a Winchester M-101 Skeet model that I purchased new in 1968. I won some club shoots with it, but I could never better a 98. In the mid 80s I got into NSSA tournaments and the old Winchester got me classified AA, but I wasn't winning much with a 98 tops. It was as if the gun was haunted, there was always something that seem to cost me an extra lost target, or two -- try as I did, the gun just wouldn't swing smoothly and had a habit of jerking at inopportune times -- it was time to investigate a new gun. After switching to a Perazzi, I shot my first 100-straight in practice almost immediately and another soon followed in competition. To me, that rapid improvement was well worth the price of the new gun. When I got the P-gun I didn't consider that it would be still going strong 20+ years and 1,000,000s of shots later, that was a bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicmatty

I would assume that a Comp gun is like a race car you could buy out of the showroom but the one that is used for the track is tuned for the track with much more under the hood for the task ahead.

The comp shooter, like the race driver, wants his performance to be limited by his ability, not the tools he's using.

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicmatty

I would guess that most people who own guns for some target shooting and hunting and of course home defense, don't shoot several thousand rounds a year thru there guns.

Why would you make that assumption? It doesn't take much to shoot several thousand rounds in a year. As a casual shooter, it's easy to shoot a 100 rounds a few times each month and that quickly adds up to over 2,000/year. But, you're correct, there's a difference between shooters and gun owners. For every shooter who's active at his local club or range, there's probably quite a few gun owners who are still working on their first box of shells.

BigJimP · November 3, 2010, 12:45 PM

The other side of this discussion ...is I really wish there was a $500 or even a $1,000 O/U that I could personally recommend as a solid buy / long term gun ... that would hold up for a casual shooter --- shooting 1,000 targets a year...

Obviously some of the responders on here disagree - saying that gun is here now - Mossberg's, Baikals, CZ's, TriStar's, etc ....and in the long run, I really hope they're right !

Its not a scientific sample ...but there was 2 young guys shooting at my club yesterday ....one had a used Baikal that he said was about a year or so old / and one had a relatively new TriStar O/U sold by Cabela's. The guy shooting the Baikal was having trouble getting shells out of his uppper barrel - and he mentioned the ejector was broken --- and he'd gone to a few places and no-one could get the parts to fix it - so he was just putting up with it the best he could. At one point during the round - the TriStar started doubling ...and the shooter said, oh yeah, that he needed to send it in for some warranty repair ...but he was shooting it in the meantime ...

The mechanical issues aside ....it was really obvious that neither gun / really "Fit" either shooter. It looked to me like both guns were shooting at least a foot low at 21 yards ... By the same token / they were having a good time / sun was shining --- targets were flying ....and as long as they broke about 15 or so in a round of 25 on Skeet ---- they were happy. They both wanted to shoot better ...and we were trying to help them on hold points, stance, follow-thru, etc ....( after we asked if they wanted some tips ) ..../but with guns that "Fit" like that ...it wasn't going to happy anytime soon !

On top of that - the mechanical issues on both of those guns --- make them 100% Unacceptable guns to me / even if they could be "Fit" properly ...even on the most casual basis. Roy - you asked earlier - what I base my comment of 2 or 3 out of 10 of these guns seem to be ok ....its based on seeing guns like this. Based on what I see ... 7 or 8 of the Baikals, TriStars, CZ's, etc ...seem to have problems like this ....

I hope what I see - long term - with some of these guns changes ...but in the meantime, I'll be critical until I see something different ...

markj · November 3, 2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Unless you've handled and shot a quality O/U you really can't understand

There sure are some fine ones out there, but I am and always wil be a semi auto guy. I did get a 410 double a side by side for my son to start out with. It isnt a expensive gun but someting to learn on then he can move up to what he wants and needs.

Some of the guns I have handled had tubes you could swap out for other guages they weighed the same so you lost nothing on a change out. Cost is high but for the precision that is what it takes.

More money means you can afford better things. Dont mean what you can afford isnt good enough. Like hamburger to a filet.

roy reali · November 3, 2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

On top of that - the mechanical issues on both of those guns --- make them 100% Unacceptable guns to me / even if they could be "Fit" properly ...even on the most casual basis. Roy - you asked earlier - what I base my comment of 2 or 3 out of 10 of these guns seem to be ok ....its based on seeing guns like this. Based on what I see ... 7 or 8 of the Baikals, TriStars, CZ's, etc ...seem to have problems like this ....

So you have seen at least ten samples of each "cheapie" shotgun and observed that two or three of each were satisfactory? There are quie a few brands of "cheapie" shotguns on the market. The few "cheapie" shotguns I have seen worked just fine. In fact, with a 100 percent flawless record. I therefore conclude that "cheapie" shotguns are not all flawed.

oneounceload · November 3, 2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

So you have seen at least ten samples of each "cheapie" shotgun and observed that two or three of each were satisfactory? There are quie a few brands of "cheapie" shotguns on the market. The few "cheapie" shotguns I have seen worked just fine. In fact, with a 100 percent flawless record. I therefore conclude that "cheapie" shotguns are not all flawed.

And if we sub car, suit, hammer, or whatever - by your logic, they must all be good?

Glad yours works for you - I'm looking forward to seeing you at the winner's circle for trap, skeet or sporting clays - just how many championships have you won, btw? Please list them, and let us know where you do this great training that's lets you win

BigJimP · November 3, 2010, 07:05 PM

Yes, I've seen enough junk to draw my conclusion ....you've finally got it figured out .......

Why don't you and your buddies go out and buy 10 of them ...and let us know how you're sample works out ?? I might change my mind about some of the brands that I see that are problems ..

roy reali · November 3, 2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

And if we sub car, suit, hammer, or whatever - by your logic, they must all be good?

Exactly!

re:bigjimp

Quote:

Yes, I've seen enough junk to draw my conclusion ....you've finally got it figured out

How many of each brand are we talking about? I don't want an exact figure, but a rough estimate.

oneounceload · November 3, 2010, 08:20 PM

okey dokey , roy.....you keep your "POS" as you like to call it, and I'll keep mine......this is starting to degenerate..........you love your Turkish/Russian/Brazilian/Other POS..........good for you......................it works for you?.........good for you

Some of us prefer things that work better, are built better and have a longevity you seem to not be able to understand.....OK.....

Have at it, and you can answer everyone's questions about what gun to buy when they need a cheap but reliable O/U and come on here, because your experience makes it true, and those POS guns are exactly the same as the better ones...only cheaper for those folks who base every purchase strictly on price............

I'll continue to follow my sig line....you can continue to follow "cheapest price is best"

roy reali · November 3, 2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Turkish/Russian/Brazilian/Other POS

How many of these guns have you personally owned and had a failure with? An estimate would suffice. I know I am coming across as a smart alec, but if someone makes statements that the majority of guns made by any company fail, I want hard data. Give me a reference, name a publication to read, a website to link, something. Otherwise it is just opinion, not fact. If you are given a medication, do you want the facts about the drug or the opnions about the drug?

Here is a simple question.

Why would any gun shop stock and sell any firearm with a seventy to eighty percent failure rate? I realize that if someone buys a defective gun it ain't the gun shop's fault. But it still doesn't make them look good.

Rob228 · November 3, 2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Why would any gun shop stock and sell any firearm with a seventy to eighty percent failure rate? I realize that if someone buys a defective gun it ain't the gun shop's fault. But it still doesn't make them look good.

Its not so much a failure rate, I think the actual phrase is something along the lines of "Mean Time Between Failures" and you won't see that shooting "low" numbers per year.

To oneounceload:

I have come to realize the error of my ways, having gone out and borrowed a few of what I considered expensive shotguns for myself and my wife to do some shooting with, and I have seen the light. I've got a big chunk of re-enlistment bonus that has been rotting in the bank not doing anything, and some of it is about to turn into a pair of Beretta's, fitted stocks and, yes...lessons. Your earlier comment where you mentioned expensive hammers drove the point home even more. I've got a $40 dollar hammer that I've had for years, and would not ever part with. I can't even let myself swing a cheap hammer.

hogdogs · November 3, 2010, 10:58 PM

From one LOW DOUGH brand owner to all ya'll others...

I own CHEAP Mossberg 500's... So ya'll agree my gun costs less than a CHEAP side by side or O/U of lesser brand import?

Lets say you break a stock bolt... as I did... Can you call THE FACTORY and speak to an english speaking representative? Can you state your problem and have that person OFFER to send you a new one at no cost? NOT EVEN SHIPPING COSTS?

Can you then walk to your mailbox 2-3 DAYS later and find your NEW FACTORY stock bolt in a manilla envelope complete with 3 decals that they sell for 3-5 dollars each just because you told them that you have been totally happy with your gun for 20+ years?

But that is just my experience with my low dough AMERICAN MADE GUN!!!

Brent

k31 · November 3, 2010, 11:13 PM

the best shooting firearm is the firearm you shoot best with
i have a few of those nicer firearms in my case but for my average hunt the sks comes out at 150 yards i can pull up with out sights and consistently hit a sheet of lined paper it isnt any kind of group but a deer bear and coyotes vitals all fit in that size of paper and jackrabbit is tricky fast and has a side to side dash to even throw off a 12 gauge but it fits in a paper size area too
very few of my hunting shotguns or rifle s cost more than 200$ my elk rifle was around 3 after it shipped my 1949 K31 standard two stage trigger lightning fast straight pull action full length top and bottom furniture and accuracy im not sure my rem 700 .308 can match go ahead and buy a yup gun that your afraid to drag the stock through the dirt in a last minute low crawl to get the best shot, an action with 100 more parts made of cheap stamped steel that claims to be better than a solid 6.5 lb action and barrel from the 30s or 40s dont buy an old shot out piece of crap but buy a mans gun that can be used in the mud the humidity the rain and even - 20 weather or buy you a yup gun for the rich and famous and then buy you a a new Yamaha rhino so you dont have to walk to your stand or drag you own deer and so you dont get too tired or over worked heck buy you a huge fence and a bird feeder so you dont have to do any work at all

dahermit · November 3, 2010, 11:16 PM

I bought a cheap side by side 20 guage some years ago. It never failed to fire or did it ever blow up. What the problem with it was, I could never hit anything I shot at with the second barrel...they were not properly aligned. Got rid of it. Had nothing to do with snobery.

pvt.Long · November 3, 2010, 11:30 PM

Lol well K31 that sounds good enough reasoning to me to me. That's why I love what I got. ill drag my m1a or 1903 through the dirt and do what needs to be done for that good shot and still not hurt my feelings any. my favorite game it hog and it takes a bit to drag them things beck to the truck but often times the go where a 4 wheeler wouldn't try to.
hogdogs that sounds good enough reason to invest in a mossburg compared to any of those high dollar yuppy guns. if the military uses it its gotta say something and if they're willing to do that just because they assure customer satisfaction like that it says one or two things about the guns. I still gotta break in my saiga but its kinda picky about its loads it prefers buck and slug loves buck and ball, so im looking into a mossburg little less bruising at the end of a day and parts that get to the mailbox a bit faster.

hogdogs · November 3, 2010, 11:34 PM

Well, mr.long, I would expect nearly similar service from the "yuppy gun" companies... But I would not expect it from any of the low barrel import companies...

Brent

pvt.Long · November 3, 2010, 11:38 PM

Saiga doesn't exactly have the best service in the world by far up there along with FH. spare parts in cycles,but with such a reliable system like the sagia platform the parts that the gun is built with are really reliable.

OkieCruffler · November 3, 2010, 11:48 PM

I have to admit, I'd love to show up at the skeet feild with a saiga.

k31 · November 3, 2010, 11:55 PM

another lovely hunting choice HI point carbine 9mm my favorite pheasant gun
and guess what if it brakes they fix it or replace it FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO MATTER WHO OWNS IT OR WHOS NAMES ON THE PAPERS FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!
does ________ (fill in the blank) have guarantee like that
oh. and a P.S. i have owned about 4 hipoints and never sent even 1 back
even a crook knows the pros of a throw down and the hikers, hunters, blue collar, fisherman and guys all around the country that dont want to waste thier money on the wifes first gun that we all know just what really happens to it a year later

pvt.Long · November 4, 2010, 12:10 AM

Ive seen the ugly truth of what happens when the new wars off to my ex faience 22. someone asked me if I was outta m mind when I bought her a 22 and i told them with out skipping a beat my guns are bigger loaded and at least ones in my truck ,and she cant hit a barn door at 20 paces.

Okie id like to see a skeet shoot with a saiga too, but the down side is its designed to handle the heavy loads to cycle. Im not sure competition officials would feel comfortable o if you walk out on the field with it.

November 3, 2010, 12:45 PM	#58
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The other side of this discussion ...is I really wish there was a $500 or even a $1,000 O/U that I could personally recommend as a solid buy / long term gun ... that would hold up for a casual shooter --- shooting 1,000 targets a year... Obviously some of the responders on here disagree - saying that gun is here now - Mossberg's, Baikals, CZ's, TriStar's, etc ....and in the long run, I really hope they're right ! Its not a scientific sample ...but there was 2 young guys shooting at my club yesterday ....one had a used Baikal that he said was about a year or so old / and one had a relatively new TriStar O/U sold by Cabela's. The guy shooting the Baikal was having trouble getting shells out of his uppper barrel - and he mentioned the ejector was broken --- and he'd gone to a few places and no-one could get the parts to fix it - so he was just putting up with it the best he could. At one point during the round - the TriStar started doubling ...and the shooter said, oh yeah, that he needed to send it in for some warranty repair ...but he was shooting it in the meantime ... The mechanical issues aside ....it was really obvious that neither gun / really "Fit" either shooter. It looked to me like both guns were shooting at least a foot low at 21 yards ... By the same token / they were having a good time / sun was shining --- targets were flying ....and as long as they broke about 15 or so in a round of 25 on Skeet ---- they were happy. They both wanted to shoot better ...and we were trying to help them on hold points, stance, follow-thru, etc ....( after we asked if they wanted some tips ) ..../but with guns that "Fit" like that ...it wasn't going to happy anytime soon ! On top of that - the mechanical issues on both of those guns --- make them 100% Unacceptable guns to me / even if they could be "Fit" properly ...even on the most casual basis. Roy - you asked earlier - what I base my comment of 2 or 3 out of 10 of these guns seem to be ok ....its based on seeing guns like this. Based on what I see ... 7 or 8 of the Baikals, TriStars, CZ's, etc ...seem to have problems like this .... I hope what I see - long term - with some of these guns changes ...but in the meantime, I'll be critical until I see something different ... Last edited by BigJimP; November 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM.

November 3, 2010, 11:13 PM	#68
k31 Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Location: utah for the time being Posts: 213	the best shooting firearm is the firearm you shoot best with i have a few of those nicer firearms in my case but for my average hunt the sks comes out at 150 yards i can pull up with out sights and consistently hit a sheet of lined paper it isnt any kind of group but a deer bear and coyotes vitals all fit in that size of paper and jackrabbit is tricky fast and has a side to side dash to even throw off a 12 gauge but it fits in a paper size area too very few of my hunting shotguns or rifle s cost more than 200$ my elk rifle was around 3 after it shipped my 1949 K31 standard two stage trigger lightning fast straight pull action full length top and bottom furniture and accuracy im not sure my rem 700 .308 can match go ahead and buy a yup gun that your afraid to drag the stock through the dirt in a last minute low crawl to get the best shot, an action with 100 more parts made of cheap stamped steel that claims to be better than a solid 6.5 lb action and barrel from the 30s or 40s dont buy an old shot out piece of crap but buy a mans gun that can be used in the mud the humidity the rain and even - 20 weather or buy you a yup gun for the rich and famous and then buy you a a new Yamaha rhino so you dont have to walk to your stand or drag you own deer and so you dont get too tired or over worked heck buy you a huge fence and a bird feeder so you dont have to do any work at all __________________ "the best shooting firearm is the firearm you shoot best" Tony Marr Last edited by k31; November 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM.

November 3, 2010, 11:48 PM	#73
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	I have to admit, I'd love to show up at the skeet feild with a saiga. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

November 3, 2010, 11:55 PM	#74
k31 Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Location: utah for the time being Posts: 213	another lovely hunting choice HI point carbine 9mm my favorite pheasant gun and guess what if it brakes they fix it or replace it FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!! NO MATTER WHO OWNS IT OR WHOS NAMES ON THE PAPERS FOR FREE!!!!!!!!! does ________ (fill in the blank) have guarantee like that oh. and a P.S. i have owned about 4 hipoints and never sent even 1 back even a crook knows the pros of a throw down and the hikers, hunters, blue collar, fisherman and guys all around the country that dont want to waste thier money on the wifes first gun that we all know just what really happens to it a year later __________________ "the best shooting firearm is the firearm you shoot best" Tony Marr

November 3, 2010, 09:32 AM	#54
musicmatty Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2009 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 346	I don't see the point in comparing Competition guns with affordable everyday work horses?? I would assume that a Comp gun is like a race car you could buy out of the showroom but the one that is used for the track is tuned for the track with much more under the hood for the task ahead. I would be most interested in seeing 3 skilled people in competition with a Win a Rem and a Moss pump and see what they could do with the everyday work horse...just my opinion and curiosity. I would guess that most people who own guns for some target shooting and hunting and of course home defense, don't shoot several thousand rounds a year thru there guns. Again..everyday work horse guns being compared to a Comp gun seems to be an uneducated argument.

November 3, 2010, 10:30 AM	#55
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Why would you think a competition Perazzi, Kreighoff, Browning or Beretta are NOT everyday guns? or workhorses?..Ask Kim Rhodes how many shots she takes every day to keep her skill levels at Olympic Gold caliber - she shoots more in a week than most will do in a year - how does that not make her gun an everyday workhorse?

November 3, 2010, 10:53 AM	#56
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	This concept that you need to own every gun discussed on this forum - or you shouldn't comment is nonsense ... Shotguns are one of my hobbies - and I talk to a lot of shooters, see a lot of guns, talk to a lot of retailers ...and based on what I see, I make appropriate comments. I appreciate a good pump gun, a good side by side or a good semi-auto - but my "every week" - "work gun/fun gun" is a Browning Citori XS Skeet model. I shoot that same model O/U for Skeet, Sporting Clays and some bird hunting. Today, with the adj comb, the Citori XS Skeet is roughly a $3,000 shotgun ....and in my view its very much an entry level gun in terms of even casual competition shooting / and I would not consider it capable of being a gun that would allow me to shoot my best in serious competition. If I was 25 yrs younger, had better eyes and less orthopedic issues - and wanted to compete / Blaser, Perazzi, Kolar and Krieghoff would be on my short list - with a carrier barrel and a 12ga barrel - and a complete set of sub-gague tubes and screw in chokes - with a budget of around $15 - $30K probably. Even as a casual shooter, I still go thru around 7500 shells a year. A few years back / when I was shooting competitively in sporting clays it was about 25,000 - 35,000 shells a year. Most of my Citori XS Skeet models have at least 100,000 shells thru them - some of them over 250,000 shells ...and I have 5 of them (2 in 12ga, 1 in 20ga, 1 in 28ga and 1 in .410 , and they're all holding up real well).

November 3, 2010, 07:05 PM	#62
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Yes, I've seen enough junk to draw my conclusion ....you've finally got it figured out ....... Why don't you and your buddies go out and buy 10 of them ...and let us know how you're sample works out ?? I might change my mind about some of the brands that I see that are problems ..

November 3, 2010, 08:20 PM	#64
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	okey dokey , roy.....you keep your "POS" as you like to call it, and I'll keep mine......this is starting to degenerate..........you love your Turkish/Russian/Brazilian/Other POS..........good for you......................it works for you?.........good for you Some of us prefer things that work better, are built better and have a longevity you seem to not be able to understand.....OK..... Have at it, and you can answer everyone's questions about what gun to buy when they need a cheap but reliable O/U and come on here, because your experience makes it true, and those POS guns are exactly the same as the better ones...only cheaper for those folks who base every purchase strictly on price............ I'll continue to follow my sig line....you can continue to follow "cheapest price is best"

November 3, 2010, 10:58 PM	#67
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	From one LOW DOUGH brand owner to all ya'll others... I own CHEAP Mossberg 500's... So ya'll agree my gun costs less than a CHEAP side by side or O/U of lesser brand import? Lets say you break a stock bolt... as I did... Can you call THE FACTORY and speak to an english speaking representative? Can you state your problem and have that person OFFER to send you a new one at no cost? NOT EVEN SHIPPING COSTS? Can you then walk to your mailbox 2-3 DAYS later and find your NEW FACTORY stock bolt in a manilla envelope complete with 3 decals that they sell for 3-5 dollars each just because you told them that you have been totally happy with your gun for 20+ years? But that is just my experience with my low dough AMERICAN MADE GUN!!! Brent

November 3, 2010, 11:16 PM	#69
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I bought a cheap side by side 20 guage some years ago. It never failed to fire or did it ever blow up. What the problem with it was, I could never hit anything I shot at with the second barrel...they were not properly aligned. Got rid of it. Had nothing to do with snobery.

November 3, 2010, 11:30 PM	#70
pvt.Long Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 433	Lol well K31 that sounds good enough reasoning to me to me. That's why I love what I got. ill drag my m1a or 1903 through the dirt and do what needs to be done for that good shot and still not hurt my feelings any. my favorite game it hog and it takes a bit to drag them things beck to the truck but often times the go where a 4 wheeler wouldn't try to. hogdogs that sounds good enough reason to invest in a mossburg compared to any of those high dollar yuppy guns. if the military uses it its gotta say something and if they're willing to do that just because they assure customer satisfaction like that it says one or two things about the guns. I still gotta break in my saiga but its kinda picky about its loads it prefers buck and slug loves buck and ball, so im looking into a mossburg little less bruising at the end of a day and parts that get to the mailbox a bit faster.

November 3, 2010, 11:34 PM	#71
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Well, mr.long, I would expect nearly similar service from the "yuppy gun" companies... But I would not expect it from any of the low barrel import companies... Brent

November 3, 2010, 11:38 PM	#72
pvt.Long Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 433	Saiga doesn't exactly have the best service in the world by far up there along with FH. spare parts in cycles,but with such a reliable system like the sagia platform the parts that the gun is built with are really reliable.

November 4, 2010, 12:10 AM	#75
pvt.Long Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 433	Ive seen the ugly truth of what happens when the new wars off to my ex faience 22. someone asked me if I was outta m mind when I bought her a 22 and i told them with out skipping a beat my guns are bigger loaded and at least ones in my truck ,and she cant hit a barn door at 20 paces. Okie id like to see a skeet shoot with a saiga too, but the down side is its designed to handle the heavy loads to cycle. Im not sure competition officials would feel comfortable o if you walk out on the field with it.