Retired LEO's and Conceal Carry

[dave9969]

I have a friend here that was medically retired from the Sheriffs department after breaking their neck apprehending a bad guy.

I'm fairly sure that retired LEO don't require a ccl, but was looking for a firm answer on this. We live in Florida, and its fairly gun friendly here. But not sure about if a retired LEO is required to have a concealed carry permit.

Any answers would be helpful.

[Don H]

Arizona has a some good information about LEOSA on its Public Safety site: http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/LEOSA/

[Aguila Blanca]

There are some specific requirements in the LEOSA as to who qualifies as a retired LEO. How long your friend was an officer may be important, because I don't recall any mention in the law for officers who retire for medical reasons before the minimum qualifying time.

The other requirement is that in order to carry under the LEOSA retired officers must requalify annually, and must carry identification attesting to his status.

[Tuzo]

Your friend, the retired sheriff, has a great resource that can answer your question: his department. That is where you should steer him for answers. Additionally, he has access to laws that regulate concealed carry for everyone eligible. By far, questions of this sort are answered by prime documents (state regulations).

[heyjoe]

retired police officers do qualify for LEOSA -Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act- (HR 218/S1132) if they have a line of duty disability for which they were retired. You do need to qualify every year with a certified police fire arms instructor.

[dave9969]

yeah that was more or less what I tried to tell them. But I didnt have specific statutes etc to prove it.
As for the snide remark about the department, there are some hard feelings after the retirement being forced due to an injury at work on the job. Not a lot of helpful supervisors in an election year with a lot of CYA going on these days with budget cuts and typical issues in a county department.

Thanks for the help finding the correct resources for them.

[Aguila Blanca]

I found this on an FBI web site (emphasis added):

Qualification Under LEOSA

LEOSA applies to qualified active duty and retired officers. Qualification under LEOSA requires employment by or retirement from a local, state, or federal law enforcement agency as someone charged with the ability to investigate, prosecute, and arrest people for violations of law. If an agency has firearms proficiency standards, the officer must meet them to qualify to carry under this act. The statute also prohibits carrying firearms when under the influence of alcohol or any intoxicating or hallucinatory substance. If a current or retired officer is prohibited by federal law from possessing a firearm, they are not qualified to carry one under this legislation. It also is important to note that if an officer is under a disciplinary action that may result in suspension or termination by their agency, they are not qualified to carry under this act.

Qualified retired officers must have retired in good standing for reasons other than mental instability and served at least an aggregate of 15 years. However, if the retirement was due to a service-related disability, the officer need only have completed the probationary period to qualify under this act. Retired officers also must have a nonforfeitable right to benefits under their agency's retirement plan. At personal expense, the retired officer must meet the state standard for firearms qualification required for active law enforcement officers.

Qualified active duty and retired officers must have photographic identification issued by the agency they work for or retired from. Retired officers' identification must have some indication that they have been tested or have otherwise been determined by the issuing agency to meet the standards active officers must meet to carry concealed weapons. Retired officers do have the option of possessing the photographic identification with a certification from the state, rather than their former agency, that they have met the state's requirements for active duty officers to carry concealed weapons within 12 months of the issuing date of the identification.

LEOSA does not give qualified officers any special enforcement or arrest authority or immunity. It merely allows them to carry concealed weapons. If these weapons are used, there is no special protection from arrest. Qualified officers may find themselves acting only under the authority of a citizen's arrest or self-defense claim or under authority established by the state.

The actual law is codified as Title 18 U.S.C. § 926 (B) and (C).

[dave9969]

thanks I will pass this on to them.

It was not a pleasant retirement, it was unwillingly at only due to the fact they had to balance a budget. Needless to say, they want to go back to work but unlikely due to the nature of the injury.

[youngunz4life]

thx Aguila Blanca...I didn't know ab the 'exception' depending on the disability.

be advised though the law was amended via President Obama in 2010 too: if no 'exception', qualified retired LEO only needs 10yrs active before retirement now(not 15) as long as it wasn't "mental" in any form

[youngunz4life]

dave he is good-to-go but he just needs to fire his gun(qualify) once a yr(pretty routine). many searches can find the people to do this so googling it would probably work. Years ago, people were wondering if it HAD to be with their employer(the state police they worked for as one of many, multiple examples). This is not the case. This caused problems with retirees from anti-gun states or 'slower to comply' agencies. Nowadays its very easy to find the correct persons to qualify him, but it is a requirement&he just needs to be sure they are licensed to certify for leosa purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enf...ers_Safety_Act

[Aguila Blanca]

Younggunz, you make it sound like any retired officer can go find any NRA instructor and shoot in front of him. Do you have a better source than Wikipedia? Wikipedia does not override what the law says, which is:

(4) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;

In my state, the state does have standards. That automatically means that no retired officer living in this state can seek out an independent/private instructor to qualify. Our state police have established a very limited program, which they run only one or two days per year, for officers who retired into this state from other states or whose former departments won't requalify them annually. The candidates have to go to our state police firing range and shoot our state police qualifying course. As far as I know, the passing score is the same as for state police officers -- retirees don't get a lower threshold.

[hermannr]

I do know of one person that will go to Oregon to do his LEOSA qual, that no longer lives in OR. I'm not sure what state's LE agency he retired from.

[Gary Slider]

Your Friend Qualifies. Here is the law. All he needs is ID and qualification with the type of firearm he is going to carry.

Title 18 > Part 1 > Chapter 44 > § 926B

§ 926B. Carrying of Concealed Firearms by Qualified Law Enforcement Officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term “qualified law enforcement officer” means an employee of a governmental
agency who—
(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers;
(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm'--
(1) except as provided in this subsection, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
(2) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
(3) does not include--
(A) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(B) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(C) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

(f) For the purposes of this section, a law enforcement officer of the Amtrak Police Department, a law enforcement officer of the Federal Reserve, or a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government qualifies as an employee of a governmental agency who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest.

Title 18 > Part 1 > Chapter 44 > § 926C

§ 926C. Carrying of Concealed Firearms by Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified separated from service law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term “qualified retired law enforcement officer” means an individual who—
(1) separated from service in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, (2) before such separation, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;
(3)
(A) before such separation, served as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 10 years or more; or
(B) separated from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;
(4) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State; and
(5)
(A) has not been officially found by a qualified medical professional employed by the agency to be unqualified for reasons relating to mental health and as a result of this finding will not be issued the photographic identification as described in subsection (d)(1); or
(B) has not entered into an agreement with the agency from which the individual is separating from service in which that individual acknowledges he or she is not qualified under this section for reasons relating to mental health and for those reasons will not receive or accept the photographic identification as described in subsection (d)(1);
(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is—
(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training as established by the agency to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(2)
(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer; and
(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides or by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State that indicates that the individual has, not less than 1 year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State or a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State to have met--
(I) the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training, as established by the State, to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(II) if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; and
(e) As used in this section--
(1) the term `firearm'--
(A) except as provided in this paragraph, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
(B) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
(C) does not include--
(i) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(ii) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(iii) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(2) the term `service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer' includes service as a law enforcement officer of the Amtrak Police Department, service as a law enforcement officer of the Federal Reserve, or service as a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government.

Title 18 > Part 1 > Chapter 44 > § 927
§ 927. Effect on State law
No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together.

[dave9969]

thanks for the information

just a side note, I wondered if anybody would notice I only called the LEO them, its actually a woman. Funny how many assume male. Just an observation. She had her neck broken while detaining a drug addict in a hospital while they attempted to restrain him. She got slammed to the floor with a guy twice her size. But she is part pitt bull she don't back down from anybody. Needless to say after they had the guy strapped down, she hit the floor. Broken neck and very lucky to be able to walk today.
Remember folks, women are LEO's now to!

again thanks for the help on this, I really am trying to help her out, and by an odd coincidence I'm engaged to marry her. She just does not let people do things for her, she is Stubborn!

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by dave9969

...just a side note, I wondered if anybody would notice I only called the LEO them, its actually a woman. Funny how many assume male. Just an observation...

It has long been the grammatical convention in the English language to use the masculine pronoun when the gender of a person is not known. The use of "them" to refer to a single person is incorrect since "them" is a plural pronoun.

[youngunz4life]

I have to agree. I never assumed she was a he; there are a lot of female officers. Congratulations on the engagement. you seem to have somewhat of an understanding of your future wife, Dave. Just keep this in mind, and you should be fine.

[youngunz4life]

Such a person must possess either:[4]
photographic ID issued by their previous agency that indicates that they have, in the previous 12 months, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training as established by the agency to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm, or
both of:
photographic ID issued by their previous agency, and
a certification issued by the State in which they live, or by a certified firearms instructor (qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State) that indicates that they have, in the previous 12 months, been tested or otherwise found by the State (or a certified firearms instructor) to have met either:
the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training, as established by the State, to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

No, I wouldn't recommend just going to any instructor. I didn't mean to amke it seem that way; I was just saying it is easy to find what to do nowadays. As an example, NJ made it difficult when LEOSA became law. The AG tried to tell agencies not to allow their officers to carry off duty despite the law. You can imagine finding someone to qualify as a retired officer with an agency might be difficult. Agencies were also scared due to liability gossip.

What you stated officers do in FL sounds like a good idea...then you know you are covered(like I said paraphrase: 'make sure you are leosa covered' or something to that effect). I can see maybe how it could be misconstrued.

I know many people don't like wilkipedia, but the bottom line is the most recent updates of the law(s) on LEOSA are covered in my link....the 10yrs instead of fifteen yrs, amtrak, federal reserve police, etc, the mental disability separation updates(obviously people were legally shirting the law and/or honestly confused), and so-on.

if standards are not set:
or
if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

[youngunz4life]

basically, you an call any friendly, on-the-ball LEO agency of any type within the state. This is probably as easy as calling the local County Sheriff's Office. Originally, it had to be your agency(or there was at least major confusion about this). Now if you have an off-the-ball agency or any issues, it is as easy as just searching until you find one that is proactive about LEOSA and its retired LEO's.

I even think some difficult states have dropped making you shoot with your carry piece or being limited in this fashion. I am not pisitive about this though.

Aguila Blanca, I am with you(if I have this correct), I truly believe National CCW is the way to go. One of these days we might get a heavy-hitter President who does this. The senate is usually gun-friendly.

It took decades for LEOSA to make it. My uncle is a retired state trooper from NY(25yrs...was a detective featured on "Cold Case Files"). He was a veteran of Iwo Jima(still alive today late 80's). His entire career he couldn't exercise this right living in NY near NJ.

[Gary Slider]

Anyone who is qualified to Certify active duty police officers in the state can certify an Officer under LEOSA. This part was amended to the original bill as some states were not setting up standards and would not certify officers.

It does not matter what state you retired from if you even move to another state for Firearms Certification. Just need to find a qualified Instructor for LEO's in that state that will certify you. There are many of them out there.

The one thing about carrying under LEOSA. You have to go by the mag bans in the states you carry in. That part of LEOSA did not override any state laws in that instance. The Amended LEOSA law did override New Jerseys ban on Hollow Points. Those carrying under LEOSA Can carry HP's in NJ.

IF you want to get the best info on LEOSA go to http://hr218leosa.com/
there you can buy the class notes that will answer just about every question you would have about LEOSA. The Officer/Attorney knows LEOSA inside and out.

[youngunz4life]

thx gary. I joined the mailing list. I wanted to add my 'uncle' is actually my dad's uncle...he is the younger brother of my grandma(may she rest in peace).

he knows about leosa but doesn't ccw to my knowledge. he is protected in his home though, and I know he would not hesitate to defend his wife, himself, and/or his home.

ps- sorry about my spelling errors on some of the posts too: shirting instead of skirting, pisitive instead of positive, etc

[Sport45]

Originally Posted by dave9969

I really am trying to help her out, and by an odd coincidence I'm engaged to marry her. She just does not let people do things for her, she is Stubborn!

If that's the case I suggest staying out of this altogether. She should know how to find this stuff out and probably won't appreciate your butting in.

On the other hand, if she asked for your help or you really know she wants it I think you've received some sound advice.