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September 6, 2011, 01:46 AM | #1 |
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I want it ALL! Help picking a 'universal' powder for my handguns?
I admit I am asking for everything at once: the sun, the moon and the stars.
I will be reloading in 9mm, .38Special, .357Mag, .44Mag and .45acp and want to try to find one or two 'universal' powders that will meet my goals. My .38 is a 3" 80's Inter-arms imported Rossi. It is supposed to fire lead rounds due to the barrel design. My goal is 148gr lead wad-cutters, or 158gr lead semi-wad cutters. I need this to be an effective load but not high CUP, as it is older metallurgy. My .357Mag is a 6" Ruger GP100, which has a barrel optimized for jacketed bullets. I intend to fire either 148gr copper-coated wad-cutters or 158 grain semi-jacketed flatpoints. I want this to be not a max load but within 30% of the max the gun can take. I can always use the .38 special when I'm tired. My .44mag is a 6 1/2" S&W 629-4 PowerPort. I intend to keep the weight of the bullet at 240 grains, but need to do more research to see if this barrel is also optimized for jacketed bullets or lead. I would plan on wad-cutters, semi-wad cutters or flat-tiped bullets. On this one I want a moderate load. Not a wimpy .44special load but not a full-power +P .44mag load that will cause timing to jump. Something over 900 lb/ft of muzzle energy, but less than 1200. For the 9mm I'll probably stick with 124gr FMJ rounds. I may ultimately do two loads, but will start with one near the +p designation but still within SAAMI specs. The barrel lengths they will usually be used in are between 4.4" and 4.8". For the .45ACP I will definitely do a 230gr FMJ load that is within SAAMI but has more power than the basic Winchester WhiteBox. I will also be doing a target load for a Caspian build I'm doing. The barrel length of these will generally be 4.5" to 5". I will NOT be using any of these loads with Self-Defense in mind, except the low CUP .38special load [maybe]. They will be strictly for range/fun shooting. The only one I really would love to be a max-power round for that caliber is the .357mag, as my GP100 has a reputation for handling the higher pressures well. The rest I want something above the middle of the curve. The .38 needs to be strong, near the middle of the curve but not on the stronger side yet. Now is where I ask for everything. I would like to do this with the minimum of powders to buy. I don't want a different powder for each caliber [yet]. I am hoping that I can get away with three or fewer powders for all of this. So, Which powders would you recommend that will meet more than one of my load goals? If it only meets ONE caliber/load combination, then it isn't getting me where I want to be. I would LOVE it if one powder would do all of this for me, but I am certain that won't happen. I'm just REALLY hoping 2 powders is all I'll need. I would still be happy if I could do it with 3 powders. If it takes 4 to do all of this I may have to make some compromises on the performance for one of my choices to get it back down to three powders. Any suggestions from your experiences? I have 4 different calibers of rifle to load also, so I don't want 8 different cans of powder in the house if I can help it. Thanks for putting up with my outrageous desire to have it all with one can of miracle powder! |
September 6, 2011, 02:08 AM | #2 |
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With those cartridges and requirements....
In my opinion, you're asking for too much from a single powder. I would go for a minimum of 2 or 3. You can get a single powder to work in all of those cartridges, but nothing will work well in all of them. My suggestion: Winchester 231 / HP-38, or Unique for the autos. H110/W296 for the revolvers.
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September 6, 2011, 02:15 AM | #3 |
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Universal Handgun Powder
There is just one powder that comes close to being "universal"...
Alliant Unique! T. |
September 6, 2011, 04:27 AM | #4 |
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Unique is what I use for all my pistol loading. Universal Clays is supposed to be just as versitile and cleaner burning but I haven't used it.
Jimro
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September 6, 2011, 04:58 AM | #5 |
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Another vote for Unique. I also use Red Dot and Blue Dot as well. If I could only have one, it would be Unique.
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September 6, 2011, 05:05 AM | #6 |
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I started loading with Unique last year and I sure wish I has started using it sooner.
I wouldn't limit myself to one can of powder but if I had to start rebuilding my stock from scratch, I start with a can of Unique. Tony |
September 6, 2011, 06:04 AM | #7 |
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Take a look at Ramshot True Blue.
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September 6, 2011, 07:34 AM | #8 |
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H110
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September 6, 2011, 08:01 AM | #9 |
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Bullseye, and Unique can be used in most if not all handgun loadings for plinking, target shooting. It is only when high velocity defense and hunting applications that a different powder would be needed.
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September 6, 2011, 08:19 AM | #10 |
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Bullseye and Power Pistol, or Bullseye and AA#7.
If you want to get it down to just one powder (I don't know why you would), Universal comes pretty close.
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September 6, 2011, 08:31 AM | #11 |
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I've been loading handgun cartridges (.380 to heavy .41Mag & .45Colt loads) with Unique for 25 years. There may be better powders for special purposes (W296 comes to mind in the Magnums, or some of the faster powders for the light target loads) but for all around loadability... Unique gets it.
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September 6, 2011, 08:44 AM | #12 |
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Unique for 90% of your needs. Add 2400 for the .357 & .44 mags for the hot stuff.
Bullseye for the light end as a third option.
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September 6, 2011, 08:45 AM | #13 |
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If you're not going to firewall the magnums, you can do it with W231 and HS6.
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September 6, 2011, 08:55 AM | #14 |
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I use Win 231/HP38 for 9mm standard, .38 midrange to +P, .45 ACP, and low end loads in Magnums.
Power Pistol is great for fast 9mms and .45s. It would do what you say you want in .357 but I cannot find .44 data for it. Unique is versatile and will handle your needs. |
September 6, 2011, 08:57 AM | #15 | |
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Too much to ask, I think ...... the case capacities of 9mm and .44 Mag are very different ...... I'd be curious to see the differences in velocity with one of those faster powders like HP 38 when you hold the gun up before you fire it vs. down vs. horizontal ...... why don't one of you braver souls try that and get back to me with the data?
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September 6, 2011, 09:11 AM | #16 | |
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September 6, 2011, 09:17 AM | #17 | |
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Just to see...... |
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September 6, 2011, 10:33 AM | #18 |
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I'm not a fan of one size fits all, but you asked so I wont say get X, Y, and Z.
Thinkng back on my 45 plus years of loading hand gun rounds the closest "One powder" for pistols/revolvers I can think of is Unique. Actually thinking about it, I believe (if I already didnt have tons of other powders) I could get by with nothing but unique. Even in rifles with cast bullets. Must be a reason Unique has held on so long where other powders went by the way side.
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September 6, 2011, 10:58 AM | #19 | ||
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September 6, 2011, 11:01 AM | #20 |
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Thanks all!
My reason for 'one powder fits all' is to keep the wife from freaking out when I start reloadng. I think she'll be fine with a can or two of powder. But if I start reloading and instantly have 8 cans of different powder for all my pistols we may have problems at home. I figure I start with one or two cans. After a few years of doing it [and her seeing that I won't blow the house/myself up], I can add third and then a fourth can down the road. I can probably justify a 'revolver' powder and a 'semi-auto' powder, even if it is more a normal power powder and a magnum powder. But a different one for each caliber, and then a different one for each barrel length in said caliber, would be too much. Especially since I will need to reload in 7x57Mauser and .300Savage, and may get into reloading 7.62x54R as well. I don't want the lightest loads in the world, but I don't want every load to be at max power/pressure either. So far it sounds like Unique is the best starting block for me to leap out from, and add to it as I become experienced. Thanks to all of you for your advice! |
September 6, 2011, 12:31 PM | #21 |
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You know I started off with just Unique and IMR 4064. 38 Special, 45 ACP, had plans for the 44 Magnum (but sold it), reloading for rifle in 223, 308, 30-06, 8x57, and 9.3x62.
When I started loading for 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag I had to add a third powder, IMR 7828. But if I had to just use one pistol and one rifle powder it would be Unique and IMR 4064. If you like there are plenty of fine rifle powders in the same burn range as 4064 that have their own following such as Varget or Reloader 15. There are some that swear by Win748 for an all around powder (and being spherical ball powder easy on the powder dispenser). So I think you can do just fine with what you are loading for with Unique and IMR 4064. The good thing about buying old stand by powders is that their is such a built in consumer base they are unlikely to be discontinued. Jimro
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September 6, 2011, 01:00 PM | #22 |
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I see these questions often.
When I was a little more wet behind the ears at this game, I even asked some similar ones. Do you want an answer? Or do you want the RIGHT answer? Any answer... you've got a bunch already. I second the question about using H110 in 9mm with a 124 grain load. Sure... give that a go and report back. Here's the right answer, so read it and and take it for what it's worth: A pound of powder, even if you pay a lousy price for it at a local gun shop is going to run you less than $25 for a pound. A pound is 7,000 grains and for what it takes to load 9mm or .38 Special, you can make something like 1,200 to 1,400 loaded rounds out of just that single ONE pound. Get that -- that's like TWENTY EIGHT BOXES of ammo. Truth is, you don't even have that many damn bullets on hand, so let's agree that it's a big number. $25 for a pound of powder... that's like TWO boxes of factory 9mm, plus tax. That's like ONE box of factory .357 Magnum. You might not even be able to purchase a full box of .44 Mag with $25. So let's also agree that $25 isn't a heap of money to put toward your handloading efforts. Can we agree on that, for a moment? If we can, then let's stop being stupid about this and buy 2, 3, or 4 different powders. WHEN you step up to the plate and buy yourself 3 or 4 powders, let's see the benefit. I'll list some and there will be many others I will forget. --You'll be making GREAT loads, not just some crap that might work --You'll be making much safer loads by using the proper powder. Every time I see some schmuck that wants to make .44 Mag with Titegroup, I want to punch someone. --You won't be running out of your one pound of "SUPER CATCH-ALL!" because you have scattered it across 5 entirely different calibers, where it's maybe appropriate in one of them. --You'll have the start of a nice little cache of powders... so the next time your bench sees a totally new caliber (or even just a radically different bullet or load for a caliber you already do), there's a fine chance you'll have a powder that can be properly used for it, without running to the gun store and hoping they have something you might need. --You'll also have some over lapping powders which can both be used in a couple different applications, giving you the opportunity to try new things and find yourself with a SWEET pet load that does everything you want it to. Man, there's more than a dozen reasons you can pick a specific powder that you want to use. I know this -- I've listed those exact reasons before right here in this forum. Just grabbing one that "kinda" works is going to give you ammo that "kinda" works and might be "kinda" safe. It's $25 a pound and that's a crappy price. I buy my stuff in bulk so I'm right around $16-$17 a pound and I get precisely what I need. It does everything I want to do with a perfect margin of safety and great economy and terrific performance. And NO, I don't only use ONE powder for each caliber. I use Power Pistol in .40 cal, 10mm and even .380. I use a lot of 2400 for .357 Mag, .30 Carb, .44 Mag and I use pounds of it crafting terrific .460 Mag. I use Universal with outrageous success in 9mm and in .45 Auto, too. Trying to use one powder for everything is a lousy idea. It's cheap and it's not the intelligent route. It's most certainly not the safest route and it will absolutely not give you the performance you deserve when putting in the time and money to craft your own ammo. And where you'll notice it the most? Anything that even approaches a magnum load. Are you aware of what happens when you use a fast-burning, small-case target powder (like Bullseye, AA#2 or Titegroup) in a large magnum revolver round like the .44 Mag? Here's what happens: You get all the pressure and a ridiculous pressure curve that doesn't look at all like a modest line on a graph, it looks like the peak of Mt. Everest. It goes from *poof* to *KABLAM, I just blew your damn gun apart* in a few grains. It will give you every single inch of chamber pressure as the CORRECT powder, but it will do it all the while giving you 150 to 200 feet-per-second less bullet speed. See the problem with that equation? $25 a pound if you are a lousy shopper or you live on the Canadian prairie where you can't get anything for a reasonable price. For $25 a pound, you can buy the proper powders and build terrific handloads. Or you can spend your $25 on one powder and make a bunch of crap.
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September 6, 2011, 01:17 PM | #23 |
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Between becoming the 'home for orphan half-pounds of powders' and my own experimentation, I used to have a powder shelf that looked like the Ellis Island of Propellants. So I understand the guy who uses lots of different powders.
I ain't that guy. I hate clutter and love simplicity. I am also able to make safe, effective and and reliable rifle and pistol ammunition with only three powders. I am giving up nothing in the process.
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September 6, 2011, 01:25 PM | #24 |
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If one powder could handle all of your requirements, it would be truly "Unique".
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September 6, 2011, 01:46 PM | #25 |
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I aint tried Unique in all of them, but I think it will work. I've used Clays in most of them.
I have used Bullseye in every one of those mentioned and it worked fine for low end. Tho its maybe not the most accurate in all of them. If you want high performance loads with the 357 and 44mag tho, I would use 296/110 or 2400. They work good for the high end. |
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