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Old September 6, 2011, 09:34 AM   #1
Magnum Wheel Man
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sometimes it's easy... sometimes not...

maybe because I'm in a hurry, I'm having a hard time coming up with a tight grouping load for my 40-65 rolling block... so far I've tried 2 different bullets, 3 powders, several charge weights, & several COL's

the range I'll be shooting at in the upcoming competition is up to 125 yards... so that is the distance I'm shooting at... it's not a bench rest shoot, only a side match at the state cowboy championships... but I'd like to get groups as small as possible in my limited time frame... 3" is my best load todate, & I may have to use that

so... as I look back, seems some cartridges I've been able to nail right away, & some have been buggers to get a nice group from...

easiest... 38 Special in my cowboy lever action... my 1st load yielded 1" 50 yard groups... easily good enough for cowboy shooting distances... 45-70 always seems easy to get a group out of ( & I have 5 guns in that cartridge ) 32 S&W was easy... to find a load that shot great groups even though the guns were antique & didn't have sights that helped much...


some of the toughest... fast twist 22 Hornet ( maybe because I want a tight group, & I'm trying to get 3 loads that shoot well in both my 6" custom revolver, & my rebarreled Ruger bolt action... & of course the 40-65 I'm trying to dial in right now...

so... you guys that are shooting for reasonably tight groups care to list both your easiest & your toughest calibers to dial in ???
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Old September 6, 2011, 12:40 PM   #2
Jimro
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I've done the most load workup on 308 Winchester. I tried Sierra and Nosler bullets, IMR 4064 and Varget, did a ladder workup with both...turns out that simply following the "Sierra Accuracy Load" of 168 gr BTHP with 41.5gr of IMR 4064 will make one ragged hole at 100 meters. I ended up loading with 42.5 gr of IMR 4064 to get the velocity up to 2650 so it would shoot with the same ballistics as M852 match ammo. So that took a lot of time to reinvent the wheel.

The absolute easiest? IMR 4064 under a 185 gr Rem Corelok in 8x57. Absolutely acceptable accuracy out of any Mauser I've cared to shoot. Increasing the charge increased velocity without pressure, but if I recall correctly that between 45 and 48 grains was the sweet spot for everything from a 22" carbine to a 29" Turk K.Kale.

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Old September 6, 2011, 04:56 PM   #3
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I don't shoot a 40-65 but I've had good luck with the Nosler "accuracy" loads too.
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Old September 6, 2011, 06:13 PM   #4
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If I was shooting a 40-65, I'd be tempted to use black powder with a grease cookie under the bullet. My 45-70 Sharps turns in its best groups with black or a substitute. Don't forget the grease cookie under the bullet.

As far as easy loads, we stumbled into one for the .308. 43.0 grains of RL15 under anybodys 165/168 grain bullet. If that load doesn't tun in MOA, there's something wrong with the rifle. It runs about 2600 fps depending on the barrel, but it's a strong performer in every .308 we've ever tried it in.
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:04 PM   #5
Ideal Tool
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Hello, Magnum Wheel Man. Can I ask what make and what barrel (if different) your rolling block is? I have a .40-70 str. (2 1/2"), which has the same case capacity as your .40-65. I am getting 1" groups at 100yd. with smokeless. Are you seating bullet into lands? I know with a roller, there isn't any action camming, but a light press with the thumb into rifling helps accuracy. What kind of sights does it have? How hard are your bullets? What weight spread ? What lube?
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Old September 7, 2011, 06:02 AM   #6
Magnum Wheel Man
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Ideal...

the rifle is a custom build on an old Navy Arms action... I think it's a Green Mountain barrel ( long & heavy octogon )

... it's my understanding that most cast rifle bullets will shoot best groups with the bullet tight to the lands... so that's mostly what I've tried my 1st attempt was with a snover 406-408 grain bullet everything from "too tight" ( had the hammer drop but bind the firing pin & not fire on 1 of the 5 cartridges in that load ) to backed off .025" or so... the bullets I'm using right now, are a flat point weighed out in 2 groups, one group at 260 ish grains & one ( linotype ) at 270 ish grains... group sizes seem about 1/2 the size ( but still around 3" ) with the lighter bullets... most of my loads have been on the lighter charge weight side, been mostly trying H-322 & Trailboss they are lubrisized & lubed with my buddys "special mix" a blend of heavy wax based machinery grease ( forget the brand ) & bees wax... I'm not getting any visible leading in 30-40 shots... so the lube seems to be doing it's job...

I should probably slug the barrel... I'm wondering if the lubrisizer is sizing the bullet down a couple .001" more than optimum ???

I have a globe sight on the front, & a graduated tang ( vernier style ) on the rear... it's not a $400.00 sight... but I take great care to keep things uniform with the sight, & make sure it's in the detent before firing each shot... with a 4" orange dot on my target I get an easy to shoot sight picture off the sandbags & while I'm not a bench rest shooter, I can easily get 1" groups with similar single shot rifles at that distance with this set up...
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Old September 8, 2011, 01:06 AM   #7
Ideal Tool
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Hello, Magnum Wheel Man. Is your brl. twist the old original slow one, that Winchester used? I am just wondering because those bullets seem kind of light. One of the most accurate bullets I have used in my .40-70 St. & B.N. is the old Ideal 412263..this was for the .405 Win. It drops around 300gr. from my scrap-range lead alloy. I liked it so much, I had Fred Leeth make a nose-pour copy. Another accurate one is the RCBS 300gr. and 350gr. The
.40-70 Str. is a 10lb. regulation match rifle so bullets nearing 400gr. start to hurt! I tried some 260gr. bullets, and couldn't get any accuracy. I have had good accuracy with H4895..but most accurate loads were two to three grains under suggested start load. The .40-70 B.N. doesn't do too bad with AA4759..The straight doesn't take to it at all. Best of luck!
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