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Old March 16, 2006, 12:07 AM   #1
Dust_Devil
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What is best for home defense in an apartment/condo

Rifle/carbine, handgun or shotgun?

What is the safest to your home and neighbors, yet the most effective against any bad guys?
What would cause the least damage overall?
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Old March 16, 2006, 12:34 AM   #2
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Home defense?

Warning: statements made here below are only my opinion, others may think differently, you make your own decisions.

I'd say shotgun. Short (legal) barrel, 12 guage, 00 buck, and lots of practice. Always remember what is serving as your backstop. Back it up with a pistol in a caliber you can shoot reliably under duress. Get some training when you can. Get a maglight or equivalent. And if you don't have one, get a cell phone with 911 on speed dial. If you can afford it, get an alarm. Have a room in the apartment that can serve you and your family as your "Alamo" until the police arrive. Opinions vary on whether or not to actively 'clear' the home or stay holed up. Me, I'm staying holed up until the cavalry comes.

Rifles can be too long, and overpenetrate (through the target, the wall, the next apartment, the house across the street). Carbines are a little easier to wield but still are likely to overpenetrate. Pistols are a better choice due to confined spaces and relative short distance but don't have the stopping power of a shotgun. Just my two cents.
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Old March 16, 2006, 12:47 AM   #3
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Hd

Get a Mossberg 500 and some 00 buck. Practice. My second choice would be SA GI 1911 5" with 13+1 rounds. You may have to defend your guns, too at some point.
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:55 AM   #4
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CO2 fire extinguishing system. I saw one in a lab designed to flood the room with 100% CO2. Put a manual activations switch in your bedroom along with some scuba gear, and you could give a BG ample reason to leave the residence. The CO2 would eventually dissapate and not leave any lingering odors in the house.

A little expensive. Otherwise I'd suggest a semi-auto 12 guage. 8 Bird in the pipe, 00 Buck in the mag, 4 Buck in the shell carrier on the stock. Handgun at your side.

Retreat to your bedroom. If they start hammering at your door, pop the birdshot high against the door. This will tell them you mean business. Shouldn't hurt anyone, nor cause too much damage. If that doesn't dissuade them, let loose with the buckshot. Switch to 4 Buck if you are worried about hitting your neighbors house from inside yours. If you have kids, load up solely with 7 Birdshot. IMHO
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:45 AM   #5
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Last door I shot with birdshot from master bedroom distance put a softball sized hole in the door. I can't imagine it not hurting someone on the other side.

I would use the largest birdshot availible in an apartment.
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Old March 16, 2006, 07:10 AM   #6
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Handgun.
Fast to bring into action and portable.
You can answer a knock on the door while discretly armed.
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Old March 16, 2006, 07:30 AM   #7
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I would say use what you are comfortable with. What you know you can control. You just have to be mindfull of what walls are shared and what walls are external. I have my mossburg loaded up with #6 and my taurus in the nightstand. I would plan on staying in the bedroom until they came a knockin. I have insurance so if my, or my family's life is not in danger, they can take what they want...I'll get it back. As soon as they enter the apt. they will hear the rack of the shotgun, that's their warning, they enter my bedroom, lets just say cover your ears.
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Old March 16, 2006, 11:44 AM   #8
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Shotgun or handgun with a flashlight. That way you can identify the person your about to fill with holes!
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Old March 16, 2006, 11:59 AM   #9
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Many good posts

These guys have about answered the question. I'll just give my .02 as more food for thought. A shotgun is the the most effective HD weapon in my opinion, but should not be the only option. Good point was made that you can answer the door with a pistol in hand and be discreet if it turns out to be the girl scouts selling cookies. I load up with 00 Buck and slugs, every other one. Start with shot, then slug. That's next to the bed (no kids, so no worries). On the nighstand, my S&W 340PD .357 snubby. No decockers, no safeties, just point and shoot. Surefire L4 on nighstand. Surefire also mounted to shottie. I hole up and wait for the cavalry. You come up to the bedroom and you get blasted, plain and simple. All bets, restraint, retreat, etc. are off when your in my home and you come looking for me and my wife and our pit in the bedroom. You saty downstairs, I'm not going looking for you. When I had an apartment the bedroom was at the end of the place, so you'd have to come through the dining room, past the kitchen nd bathroom to get to the bedroom. Left me with a solid line of fire, but even now I would not go looking for a BG. Let 'em clear out the hose of my worthless junk. Save me from throwing stuff out. Nothing of value down there anyway, but come after me and wife. That's it then.
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Old March 16, 2006, 12:31 PM   #10
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home defense...............

Get yourself a Mossberg m-500. It holds 8 shells including one in the chamber.

With a shotgun you will not only scare the hell out of anyone trying to rob you or cause you harm. But there will be minimal to no exterior wall penetration putting your neighbors at risk of stray bullets. Plus a 12 guage buck shot will deffinately lay down anyone in one shot.
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Old March 16, 2006, 01:42 PM   #11
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From reading this thread, a couple things came to mind.

1) Anything capable of hitting a BG hard enough to cause the damage required to end the threat; WILL PENETRATE MULTIPLE LAYERS OF DRYWALL. It will also most likely go through the OSB, insulation, and siding that the exterior walls of most homes are made of. --> http://www.theboxotruth.com Here is testing to back that up.

Brick outter walls do tend to stop a lot of stuff however.

2) At short ranges, and indoors is a short range, shotguns shoot small patterns. Think softball sized holes at room length distances. You still must aim a shotgun. But a shotgun hit is a good stopper.

A couple other things to think about...

Might you have to shoot around a corner? Or how about someplace inconvenient? Look into a laser sight for whatever you choose. It will let you make fairly accureate shots, without forcing you to take the time to get the sights lined up with both the target and your eye.

A flashlight is also a must-have. The only problem with weapon mounted lights is that whatever you illuminate is also swept by the barrel. Good when used on badguys, but bad for just about everything else you would use a flashlight for. I would personally have both a separate light and a gun mounted one there, and use the gun light after the BG is identified.

As to the orginal question, I would personally prefer to avoid rifle calibers where over-penetration is a problem. A pistol on my belt; and a semi-auto shotgun that I can manuver and fire one handed, or semi-auto pistol caliber carbine in my hand would be what I would ideally choose. (with ninja lasers and lights and stuff )
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:11 PM   #12
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Maybe invest in some NVG's. Eliminating the need for a flashlight. Flashlight could be used to blind BG.
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:21 PM   #13
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A shotgun with #1 or 2 shot, pump action like a 870 firing 3in shells with a 7 round capacity. This is for an APARTMENT/CONDO ONLY.

The reason is even 00 buck can over penetrate, a pistol is even worse and a rifle round such as .223 might be stopped by one wall or go through 10.

#7 shot is simply not enough to stop a determined adversary.

Anything that will go through enough of a person to force them to stop will probably go through a wall as well.

Also with an 870 you can(and should) carry slugs on a butt clip so that you have an OPTION for accuracy and penetration.
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:31 PM   #14
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Like Blackwater said, use smaller buck shot or large turkey shot. A shotgun is the best aparment defense weapon: a handgun will over penetrate badly enough to still be lethal. I wouldn't fire a carbine or such in an apartment no matter what. There is no excuse to risk that many lives. Use your shotgun, it'll pack the most punch yet still be safe for those around you.
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:13 PM   #15
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One more for 12 ga bird shot

Years ago I shot a squirrel with #6 from a distance of about 15 feet all I ever found was a foot.

Apartment distances will be similar and probably less.
The impact should be enough to stop the threat without unduly creating another one for your neighbors..

My apartment gun was an 18" coachgun which I could discreetly answer the door with if I needed to.
Never really felt the need because I had a peep hole and never opened the door if I felt the need to be armed to do so
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Old March 16, 2006, 08:45 PM   #16
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An apartment or condo will always require more thought input than for example, my place: 1000 feet ENE to the nearest neighbor, . . . across a field and through a tree line.

In an apartment or condo, one must determine fields of fire, . . . and fields of no fire. This can help you select your weapon. Any field of fire that has an exterior wall as background can be a good field, . . . but any wall that is shared with a neighbor is a no-no, a non field of fire wall, . . . one exception being if you absolutely know it is a poured concrete fire wall (they are sometimes used in apts & condos, . . . and a concrete block wall would be a field of fire wall only if I were using #4 buckshot or smaller).

You also want to definitely use the "alamo" room concept, . . . call 911 and let the cops clear the place, . . . they are trained and there is more than one of them. That said, . . . build your defensive position around having a useful field of fire should the bg breach your "alamo" room's door.

I never had kids when I had an apartment, . . . but my alamo room would have been their bedroom, . . . my wife goes in first to get the kids down behind cover, . . . I position myself inside that room with them to my flank and so that anyone breaching the door, . . . is in a clear field of fire, . . . and will be fired upon.

Fact is, . . . I moved out to the country, . . . now I have virtually no non fields of fire in my house, . . . even with my son upstairs asleep.

Walk through it with your family also, . . . so they know what you are doing, . . . why you are doing it, . . . and what they are expected to do also.

May God bless,
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Old March 16, 2006, 09:22 PM   #17
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I agree that the shotgun would be your best option, the turkey shot would be my load of choice. Also as has been pointed out before, stay away from shared walls.
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Old March 16, 2006, 09:32 PM   #18
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Re, 870

with 2 bird shot and the rest 00.
THats REM 870
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Old March 16, 2006, 10:28 PM   #19
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Personally, I rely on multiple pistols. One under the pillow, one in the kitchen, and one in the second bathroom. I move them accordingly as I move through the house. In the bedroom, I also have a 4 D-cell mag lite. On the wifes side of the bed (she still won't go shooting), there is a Tippman A-5 paintball gun with paint and CO2. As the crumb snatchers (children) arrive and we move into our permanent residence, there will also be a pair of Akitas.
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Old March 16, 2006, 10:36 PM   #20
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make sure your pump can be fired reliably from the hip or non shoulderd fire . some pump actions require some resistance to function properly.
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Old November 1, 2019, 01:14 PM   #21
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In my opinion, shotguns (with the appropriate load) are best for home defense in an apartment / condo, where over penetration is a concern, especially when there may be just internal construction walls between residences.

I believe shotguns are actually suited for apartment use due to the nature of shotshells. Small projectiles traveling at high velocity will be devastating at indoor apartment ranges ie. 5, 10, 15 feet (not yards). And due to the low mass of each projectile, will lose velocity and energy rapidly. This is exactly what you would want in an apartment.

Of course, there are more options, but let’s consider the common 12 gauge, 20 gauge, and even the much smaller 410 bore shotguns.

For 12 and 20 gauge, I personally would use nothing smaller than #4 shot. Maybe even #4 buck for 20 gauge. Yes, I know ”birdshot” is for birds, but within the context we are talking about inside a small apartment, out of 12 or 20 gauge, large birdshot will be more than adequate, and will quickly lose energy beyond 25 feet or so. I believe this is ideal in terms of minimizing collateral damage within an apartment.

If you are set on using larger buckshot because you don’t believe birdshot is adequate, (this may be true in most cases) I would actually suggest a 410 platform. Larger buckshot will retain its energy for a further distance, so it’s important to note the comparison in power between the 410 and the more common larger gauges. .410 would be about a 67 gauge, to get a closer comparison. That amounts to a lot less powder and a lot less shot. So, the larger buckshot may penetrate further, but out of a 410, will not have nearly the energy. I think people underestimate the 410 though. Consider over 600 ft/lbs of energy with 000 buck (Out of a 20” barrel) Nothing to sneeze at!

Another idea to consider if you want to minimize collateral damage, or shooting up your apartment neighbor’s abode, is installing book cases along the adjoining walls, anchored to the walls, full of encyclopedias / thick books. Should serve as a make-shift back stop.

Love thy neighbor
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Old November 1, 2019, 03:22 PM   #22
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A shot gun will at some point "spread", and pellets may go into rooms you don't intend. I personally want to ensure every round is on target, so I'm not a fan of shotguns for HD. I'll admit I'm probably in the minority with this opinion, but JMHO.

An AR-15 with the right ammo won't over-penetrate, and has good energy transfer. Handguns are good choice also with a hollow-point, LeHigh defense, or frangible round. I'm a big fan of PCC's with a red dot for home defense, especially for those who rarely practice. However the extra velocity can make a hollow point over penetrate, so ammo selection is key. Add a suppressor to any of the above and you have a really nice package.

I have a condo, and I personally utilize a PS90 for my HD carbine. It's a nice compact maneuverable package, and the round will quickly tumble and dump the energy upon impact. I use frangible rounds in my home defense pistols.
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Old November 1, 2019, 03:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGunGeek View Post
A shot gun will at some point "spread", and pellets may go into rooms you don't intend. I personally want to ensure every round is on target, so I'm not a fan of shotguns for HD. I'll admit I'm probably in the minority with this opinion, but JMHO.



An AR-15 with the right ammo won't over-penetrate, and has good energy transfer. Handguns are good choice also with a hollow-point, LeHigh defense, or frangible round. I'm a big fan of PCC's with a red dot for home defense, especially for those who rarely practice. However the extra velocity can make a hollow point over penetrate, so ammo selection is key. Add a suppressor to any of the above and you have a really nice package.



I have a condo, and I personally utilize a PS90 for my HD carbine. It's a nice compact maneuverable package, and the round will quickly tumble and dump the energy upon impact. I use frangible rounds in my home defense pistols.
More velocity than originally designed typically makes hollow points expand more than normal and underpenetrate. If the hollowpoint becomes clogged it can fail to expand and overpenetrate.
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Old November 1, 2019, 04:27 PM   #24
Bartholomew Roberts
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What can you use and manipulate effectively and have the most experience with?

The number one factor in reducing threat to bystanders is making hits on your intended target. That tends to favor long guns. At the same time, it’s difficult to answer the door carrying a long gun or dial 9-1-1 while operating one.

I can give you 20 different answers depending on your situation but at the end of the day it comes down to what can you shoot well/what will you actually take the time to practice with?

Let me give you a scenario I see all too often. Someone wants a weapon to protect their family. They buy a pistol. They are not confident with their mastery of the pistol so it stays locked up in a safe of some kind in the house and is never used for training or practice. That person is giving up the main advantage of the pistol - convenience. It is no more accessible than a long gun but a lot less likely to provide good impact on target or make good hits given the level of training.
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Old November 1, 2019, 05:23 PM   #25
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No one has asked a question so I guess I will.

Is your apartment/ condo a newer style with modern fire blocks between units? These will stop most projectiles that will otherwise penetrate walls.

Do you live with anyone else?

If there is no one else then interior wall penetration is no longer much of a concern. Also if they sleep in the same room as you, much less an issue.

Do you have a lot of windows? Say ones that are going to be a in a field of fire? Do they line up with neighboring windows?

If you do have problems with potentially shooting neighbors or destroying their property then a shotgun with #2-4 Birdshot is going to be a good load and very effective at apartment ranges with a lower risk of penetration. A #2 shot CoM hit at under 20' is very likely going to be a fight stopper with one home invader. How often are home invaders alone? Not very often.

I would recommend a bullpup style shotgun, one that comes with a rail on top and bottom for mounting an RDS, BUIS and a light on the bottom. You will want a sling as well. There are several models out there of varying quality. At 26" it will be much faster, easier handling, useful, higher capacity and lighter than any of the old school R870/ M500/ ETC style shotguns out there. It will make worlds of difference in a tight apartment where hallways are both short and narrow.

In fact to improve capacity, barrel length, handling etc on an old school shotgun will end up costing you more than just buying a bullpup straight away and it still won't perform as well.

If hitting unintentional targets is not an issue I will suggest a suppressed AR in either 450 Bushmaster, .50 Beowulf, 300BO or 5.56. An integrated, pinned barrel would be best to keep the costs down. The rifle will outperform the shotgun by a wide margin but it is best to be safe.
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