About to join the new technology of "Pyrodex" . . suggestions/remarks please.

[bedbugbilly]

With the current shortage of shooting supplies (ammo, primers, caps, etc.) I am about to do something I never thought I would . . . use Pyrodex. Pyrodex users please don't take offense to this remark please!

I've used real black powder for the last 50 years since I'm pretty much a "ttraditionlist" and while I still have some in my supply, I'm being more cautious about using it up as I'm having trouble locating any in my area at this time. I'm not going to make it to the Nationals or I'd pick some up there . . . so, I'm about ready to pick up a pound of Pyrodex "P" to try out in my revolvers and .36 under hammer rifle for plinking.

I've read the description of it on Cabela's site and see that they have it priced around $20.00/lb. Is that the general price range of it at other suppliers?

So . . . my questions are . . .

1. From what I'm reading . . . it is used the same as BP in regards to measurement by volume . . . what about pressure comparision in regards to the Pyrodex vs. real BP? Any need to reduce load or increase load? Comments?

2. Clean up - some things I've read say it's a little cleaner than real BP . . some say dirtier. Normally I use hot soapy water for clean up followed by thorough drying and oil down inside (bore/chambers) and out. Are there any problems associated with Pyrodex in regards to clean up as opposed to real BP?

3. Ignition - same as BP in regards to percussion - i.e. it goes bang without any problems or does it require a "hotter" cap or largrt/smaller nipple tunnel/opening?

4. I normally use 3F in my revolvers and smaller caliber rifles. In a pinch, I have used 2F. What about Pyrodex? Will the coarser grain Pyrodex (equiv. to 2F) work O.K. in a smaller caliber (.45 and below) if that is all I can locate or is it necessary to stick to the "P"?

5. I know it can't be used as priming on a flintier - not a problem as I have plenty of 4F on hand. On a flinter though, are there any problems using it as the main charge with a BP priming in the pan? i.e. ignites the same as BP on a flinter with no "hang fire" or delay?

Thanks for educating an old fart . . . . I know from reading it doesn't have the desired "aroma" of real BP but I figure it's time to give it a try . . . who knows, maybe I'll like the "new technology" of substitutes?

Thans again for input/suggestions - greatly appreciated.

[brazosdave]

Ya really can't tell that heck of a lotta difference. You use about the same amount of powder, it ignites about the same, and you can use 2F in a pinch iffin you run out of 3F. Cleans about the same, maybe a little less residue, use whatever your usin for b.p. The performance is about the same, you get some flame, some smoke, slightly different smell. Novices can't tell the difference in the smell, lol! Especially revolvers, it's a no brainer conversion. I don't have much experience with it in rifles or shotguns, or single shot patched ball pistols, but revolvers it's pretty much the same. I would imagine so on the other firearms as well.

[Fingers McGee]

Bestest advice I can give is Aaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh, Don't do it!!!!!!

[swathdiver]

I'd be cuttin' down some willow trees before I shot Pyrodex!

There's no BP around me neither, I order it. Don't do it!

[mykeal]

1. ...what about pressure comparision in regards to the Pyrodex vs. real BP? Any need to reduce load or increase load?

With respect to loading, pressure and muzzle velocity/energy, Pyrodex is a one-for-one black powder substitute. No need to reduce/increase or treat it any differently. Use the same amount by volume. DO NOT use the same amount by weight! It is less dense than bp, so if you use the same amount by weight, you're overloading.

Clean up - Are there any problems associated with Pyrodex in regards to clean up as opposed to real BP?

Nope. Just make sure you do clean up...leaving Pyrodex unwashed is very dangerous to the metal.

3. Ignition - same as BP in regards to percussion - i.e. it goes bang without any problems or does it require a "hotter" cap or largrt/smaller nipple tunnel/opening?

Strictly speaking it's not the same as bp with respect to ignition. Pyrodex, and all the other bp substitutes for that matter, has a higher ignition temperature than bp. That is not a problem for percussion guns, but it is for flintlocks. More on that later. You should be able to use regular caps without a problem.

4. I normally use 3F in my revolvers and smaller caliber rifles. In a pinch, I have used 2F. What about Pyrodex? Will the coarser grain Pyrodex (equiv. to 2F) work O.K. in a smaller caliber (.45 and below) if that is all I can locate or is it necessary to stick to the "P"?

You can use Pyrodex RS anywhere you use 2f black powder. And Pyrodex P anwhere you use 3f black powder.

5. I know it can't be used as priming on a flintier - not a problem as I have plenty of 4F on hand. On a flinter though, are there any problems using it as the main charge with a BP priming in the pan? i.e. ignites the same as BP on a flinter with no "hang fire" or delay?

Due to the higher ignition temperature characteristic of Pyrodex (and all other black powder substitutes) it does not work well as the main charge in a flintlock. You will have reliability problems igniting Pyrodex as the main charge in a flintlock. However, many people report good results using a duplex load of a small amount of black powder loaded first, then followed by the Pyrodex main charge (reduced, of course, by the amount of black powder).

Having said that, I agree with Fingers in principle.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks fellas . . . appreciate the information.

Yea . . . I agree about the "principle" of it all and believe me, it's hard not to want to use the real stuff. I'm hoping I'll run across some real stuff . . . have a couple of other places to check this next week. If it means the difference between being able to shoot or not, I'll opt for the Pyrodex. As long as it will work in my revolvers and my under hammer, I can save the 2F I have for my flint Fusil de Chase.

What really makes me feel old is that I can remember many, many years ago when I used to be able to buy a pound of powder for 75 cents and a tin of caps for around 35 cents - up until a "cleaning binge" that I had in my shop a couple of years ago, I still had a few empty 1 pound cans with the 75 cents marked on them with a grease pencil.

Some of the places that I used to buy the real stuff at have since either gone out of business or stopped carrying it. At one place I stopped at to check, the young clerk asked me why I'd want to use real stuff when I can use Pyrodex and then he proceeded to "educate" me with his vast knowledge on muzzleloading, only to admit that he had never shot one but he had sold several "inlines". I just smiled and told him that I was of the "old school".

In AZ where I spend the winter, I wasn't able to find any BP nor caps - those shelves were as empty as the ammo shelves. I usually shoot a lot of 38 spl and rimfire but have even cut back on that as there just isn't that much ammo out there on the shelves. If it is, it's priced out of sight "just because they can". I'll be glad when the time comes that the supply of ammo and reloading supplies improves and gets back to normal . . . if it ever does.

Thanks again for the info - appreciate it greatly.

[Hellgate]

I have used it in cartridges & shotshells without any problems. It's a little cleaner in the barrel fouling department. As loose powder I've only sparingly used it in the cap & ball revolvers. What I found is the Pyro-P is very spongy (fluffy) and compresses a lot more than BP. It also likes to be packed down to ignite reliably. I found when using a lube wad I got paBOOMs (delayed ignition) instead of just BOOM. Once I got rid of the wads and learned to "follow through" it was OK but I never went back to it because of the paBOOM. I could get more Pyro-P into the chamber by filling it nearly to the top and then ramming the ball down. The recoil seemed more than with a full chamber of BP. So I think you can get a little more UMPH in the pistols when packing it down but there's a little more liklihood of getting a delayed or failure to ignite.

[Doc Hoy]

I just prepared some .45 LC rounds and some .45-70 rounds with BP and Goex and Triple seven loaded the same way.

I was quite carefull to watch the loading to reduce external variation.

I'll post the results when I shoot them.

[g.willikers]

Just don't go all hog wild and get tempted by one of them new fangled cartridge guns, now.

[Captainkirk]

Never had a problem with Pyrodex. It can weaken over an off-season or two, I try to use up an open pound by the end of shooting season, but other than that, it's a perfectly acceptable substitute. Don't chuck your iron in the closet and expect to clean it in a few days...there WILL be rust. I would do the same for BP, regardless...
Ditto on the duplex loads for flinters. One fella on another forum likes to use duplex loads on his carry guns; Remmy sheriff models, using a few grains of 3f and topping the load with Pyro P. I've never had an issue with it working as designed other than the time I tried to use the dregs of a pound that had been sitting for several years. It still fired, but it was weak.

[brazosdave]

Dang Kirk, ya know, I've never had an ignition problem with Pyrodex P when I've used it. But I guess some have, or else that fella wouldn't be priming his cylinders with b.p. first for the duplex loads. At the end of the day, If it helps him feel more confident in his gun, then I say keep on brother! Me, I guess I'm just lucky, plus ifn I run out of black powder, I'll just make some more

[Hawg]

I've been using Pyro for years. All of it I have now was bought a couple of years ago and some of it has been open for a few months. It still works fine.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I can see the use of Pyrodex in a cap & ball pistol would be excellent for that purpose. Small chamber, nice handy ram out front. Why not give a try Sir.
I ran about a pound of Pyrodex R/S 2-FF thru my rifle last year for the first and only time. Because of so many here stating what good luck they had in using the stuff. Which was fine and dandy. The one thing I notice about Pyrodex was its fouling residue left behind in the barrel. Seemed to be in a much more hardened state than Black leaves behind. If attempting to reload just one time to many with a barrel fouled with Pyrodex. (as I'm sure we've all done on occasion) I even at that time when using Pyrodex had to seek out a tree and use it to push a patched ball down once that got stalled about a third of its way down the barrel. Much tougher scenario I thought then it was with Black under the same conditions. So availability of Pyrodex according to you bedbugbilly is much easier to come by in your location than Black. Well Sir you have to do what you have to do to keep on shooting. I didn't know there was a shortage of Black in the market place these days as its been awhile since I bought any. If there is, even so that wouldn't stop me from shooting whenever I choose too. But not with the help of Pyrodex either. Old school here if you get my drift?

S/S

[Rifleman1776]

It is interchangable with real bp, power wise.
It is more corrosive than bp.
But, real bp is available by mail order. Even with haz mat fees is is more reasonable than many retail outlets.
You are out of excuses. Continue using real bp.

[brazosdave]

I wouldn't pay hazmat, but I do make my own. Only way buying powder online works good is if you buy in bulk, which in most cases means having a bunch of buddies who live nearby to kick in on the cost with you. That ain't me, I'm afraid.

[bedbugbilly]

Rifleman - who are you using to purchase your BP by mail?

Can you give an idea of what it runs a pound and what the shipping is?

I'm not up on the hazmat shipping - is there a limit to what can be ordered and shipped at a time? i.e. 5 lbs at a time - less or more than that?

Thanks.

[Captainkirk]

Billy:
Try Graf & Sons

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...tegoryId/3501?

[Captainkirk]

Dang Kirk, ya know, I've never had an ignition problem with Pyrodex P when I've used it. But I guess some have, or else that fella wouldn't be priming his cylinders with b.p. first for the duplex loads.

Dave, I've never had to do the duplex thing myself, Pyro P works first time, every time for me.

[Hawg]

I've never had to do the duplex thing myself, Pyro P works first time, every time for me.

Likewise but I did order 5 pounds of Swiss while I had the money just to see what all the hoopla is about.

[4V50 Gary]

Besides Graf & Sons, there's also Track of the Wolf for black powder.

[Hawg]

And Powder Inc. I got five pounds of Swiss for 153.00

[Jim Watson]

I get my BP from Maine Powder House.

[Newton24b]

dont do fouling shots with it. thats all i can say. if you want best ignition get a can of 100 percent silicone i use atsko brand. pray the assembled cylinder down good till its running clear out of the percussion cones. then blowdry it dry.

standard price is 20 a pound for RS and P. its just that if you get it online your going to pay the hazmat fee so youll want to get more then 1 can at a time.

also, not everyone has the availability to purchase the minumum order to purchase genuine bp through the mail. i dont have a place to store a minimum purchase amount of 25 pounds like the customer service lady said when i called.

[Hawg]

also, not everyone has the availability to purchase the minumum order to purchase genuine bp through the mail. i dont have a place to store a minimum purchase amount of 25 pounds like the customer service lady said when i called.

I usually don't have the money to buy online but several places will sell five pounds. Powder Inc will sell in five pound lots and I heard Grafs will do three but I can't swear to that.

[Jbar4Ranch]

In my experience, Pyrodex residue is EXTREMELY corrosive (hygroscopic, actually), but there are many others who will argue this point.

Goex Pinnacle has been discontinued, and, as such, distributors are closing it out. Powderinc.com is sold out of 2F, but still has 3F @ $14.85/lb in 12 pound lots or $12.75/lb in 24 pound lots. (This includes shipping and hazmat) I bought 48 pounds of the stuff from them last month.