Spohur revolver from Germany

[liv4spd]

Are you ready for this $4000 German made revolver?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLM3HTz98Zo

I love everything about it except for the price: the handle, the barrel, the cylinder, etc. In particular, I love the design of the cylinder button. I sure hope American brands like Kimber could learn something from this design.

[44caliberkid]

I just looked at a Colt New Python in blued finish (Colt booth, Great American Outdoor Show), that I would buy if I decide to spend $1700 on a revolver. Things like the Korth or the Sporh don’t interest me at all. What could American gun companies learn from Sporh? How to make a $4000 revolver that most people won’t buy. If Smith made guns like they did in the 1950’s they would cost $3000 or more.
Taurus is improving their revolvers, Rossi has new revolvers, RIA has a $300 revolver, and the Turks and Serbians are making economical revolvers that people will buy.

[dogtown tom]

I'll bet Kimber and other US gunmakers have learned something that Spohur hasn't.


How to actually sell guns.

[Pumpkin]

If I won one it wouldn’t make it through my front door. Something else from the local gun store would though.

[jar]

Originally Posted by liv4spd

Are you ready for this $4000 German made revolver?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLM3HTz98Zo

I love everything about it except for the price: the handle, the barrel, the cylinder, etc. In particular, I love the design of the cylinder button. I sure hope American brands like Kimber could learn something from this design.

No!

[Jim Watson]

A Spohr is not in the Smith & Ruger market, it is competing with other expensive Europeans like Korth and Manurhin.

If you had rather have five $800 guns than one $4000, that is easier in the US than in Germany.

[PzGren]

Firstly,

Spohr was started by the German Club 30, a club of S&W trained German gunsmiths that distribute and service Smidt & Wessel revolvers. They came up with the idea to manufacture a revolver for the very demanding German market.

It has to be taken into consideration that German shooting guilds are existing for over 900 years, where citizens had to learn shooting for the defense of the fortified city long before standing armies existed. From the cross bow, which was used successfully to drive the tartars out of Hungary, the militia morphed into the shooting sports and Germany has the first national gun association, the Deutschen Schuetzenbund, starting in 1861 it preceded the NRA by ten years and is also ten years older than Germany as a country. It is the third largest club, coming in behind the German soccer Association. The shooting targets were taken from the NRA rulebook, as well as the ISSF standard pistol discipline. Pistol is shot at 25 meters, only free pistol is shot at 50m.

Many German shooters are very competitive and have more than enough disposable income to choose what they perceive to be the best gun for their needs. The Spohr is an alternative to Korth, the MR73, or the S&W special models that are available exclusively in Germany with Nills grips and Club 30 action work.

Secondly,
wouldn't make sense for somebody here in my county, a little east of DFW, to spend $3,300 to blast away at a B-27 at five yards.

[Webleymkv]

Let me preface my comments by saying that I'm sure that the Spohur revolvers are very nice guns. That being said, I'm not sure that the U.S. market is the same as that in Germany and, for that reason, I doubt that they'll sell all that many here. The impression that I got from the video is that the gun is primarily designed for competition and, while I'm sure it's an excellent gun for that role, I don't think that's the main driver of the U.S. market.

I suspect that, like other guns made specifically for competition, the advantages of the Spohur will diminish quickly when used for other purposes. A rifle made for long-range benchrest shooting may be amazing for that purpose, but the very things that make it so good at what it does often make it less than ideal for tromping through the thicket and shooting Bambi. Likewise, a race gun made for open-division in practical shooting competitions is typically thought of as a poor choice for concealed carry. The primary reasons that someone buys a revolver in the United States are for personal defense or handgun hunting and, while I see no reason that the Spohur would necessarily be a bad choice for those roles, I don't know that it would be significantly better than a more common and affordable revolver like a S&W, Ruger, or Colt. A lot was made in the video about the hardened parts being able to maintain a very light trigger pull for extended use and, while a good feature for competition, I don't really see a 2.2 lb trigger being necessary, or even desireable, for hunting or self-defense. I guess I see the Spohur as being the same as most other specialized tools: it's great for a specialized task but not necessarily so fantastic for more general use.

[Miami_JBT]

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

I'll bet Kimber and other US gunmakers have learned something that Spohur hasn't.


How to actually sell guns.

The thing is, companies like Spohr do sell. It is just that their traditional market us vastly different. In the majority of Europe, firearms, especially handguns are extremely restricted and controlled. Thus, the typical buyer there is one of wealth and connections. It isn't common working class folks buying consumer grade products.

Spohr, Kurth, Manurhin, etc.... they make bespoke products for a very limited, but wealthy clientele. They aren't mass producing consumer grade products for mass marketability and sales in big box retailers.

The same goes for the strictly shotgun and rifle manufacturers in Europe too. Not every manufacturer in Europe is a GLOCK or HK with government contracts all across the globe.

If you want to see an American example, look at Freedom Arms. Their guns aren't cheap either and they sell very well.

Spohr will do well too in the US market.

[PzGren]

Spohr is a German manufacturing group that had listened to competitive shooters for their input on requirements for a German-made revolver that is an alternative to Korth. Manurhin had done pretty much the same, only it wasn't a public group but Raymond Sassia, who had been dissatisfied with the performance of the S&W 19-3 that did not hold up well in the very high round counts of the GIGN.

Spohr was started to target the German market and Korths, Manurhin, and Spohr revolvers are all popular among German middle class shooters, who have better financial discipline than the American middle class, resulting in more disposable income. With basically every town having a gun club, the market is not as small as some might think.

There has been no official importer to the U.S. for Spohr until very recently, i.e. the guns were brought in by importers in small numbers and without factory support or warranty.

One advantage Germans have over Kimber and other American manufacturers when it comes to international sales is that any German with a college degree has learnt to be fluent in three languages, which helps just a little in market studies and communication.

[stuckinthe60s]

germans are still holding on to the old socio economic class game, where ones status is defined by what one owns. benz or beemer. krieghoff or merkel.

and, germans can afford expensive revolvers because nato protects them and pays their tab.
id rather see korth go for 800.00, knowing the other 4,000.00 goes into their past due nato bill.
just my opinion.
and like others said...if I won one, great. plan on one? where bullseye is dead for the most part? no.

[PzGren]

germans are still holding on to the old socio economic class game, where ones status is defined by what one owns. benz or beemer. krieghoff or merkel.

Ach was! Du glaubst bestimmt, daß Du Deutschland natürlich besser beurteilen kannst als ich aber ich kann Dir versichern, daß das hirnrissiger Blödsinn ist.

I have experienced the exact opposite, Germans judge more by education and behavior. In general educated Germans have money and don't need to show it off.

This is a great remark of somebody who in all likelihood isn't fluent in Germany, nor has the cultural literacy to fully understand how their economy works.

[wild cat mccane]

Wow wow wow.

To be fair the Colt Python 2020 isn't worth 1,600. The "old" Colt Python wasn't worth that either. Nothing like a revolver that destroys it's own arm.

The 686 takes the Python to the competition woodshed ever single time. That's speed, accuracy, and durability. US comp shooters weren't ignoring the Python because it's "too pretty to shoot."

Right now the 686 is half the price of the blue Python.

So, we have to agree not everything is based on what we personally believe is "value." I am positive there is a huge market for ultra hardened and hand built expensive revolvers. Will they perform better? Like the uTuber said, he couldn't tell the difference blindfolded of a 686 trigger vs the Koth. 7:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJZwhrxokGA

But that isn't everything.

[jetinteriorguy]

The pic rails are a no go for me, no matter how good the revolver is.

[Jim Watson]

Not just the wealthy.
I am sure a lot of us here have 5 or even 10 guns for similar applications.
In the Old World, government agents get nervous if you want to license multiple guns.
So one high end gun because they can't easily get 5 ordinary ones.

[PzGren]

Poland has no restrictive firearms laws and in Germany there is a shall-issue for two handguns for members of shooting clubs and hunters. One handgun purchase license can be issued for one discipline and the shooting association BDS added many new disciplines to allow their members to get more guns, helping them to get members coming over from the world's oldest national shooting association, the DSB. Getting a collector's license is much harder and is normally restricted to one field of firearms, the most popular being German service pistols from 1933-1945.

I can tell the difference between a Korth and a S&W action blindfolded but then, I shot competition successfully for over 40 years and spend my time on gun ranges and not so much on Youtube. When I see how that guy holds a gun and pulls the trigger, I know that he cannot even shoot 80%.

I still have a 686 that I bought new for $361 out the door. Nothing wrong with it but it is not in the same class like a Korth.

[wild cat mccane]

But you aren't shooting the Korth in the same competition that the S&W runs in that I mention, right? IDPA and IPSC. Those are running revolvers fast, which isn't great on revolvers.

I am not saying they aren't great or accurate.

[Jim Watson]

Some Frenchie replied to complaints of a Manurhin not holding up well in fast double action that they shot for accuracy, not speed.

[Webleymkv]

Originally posted by wild cat mccane
Wow wow wow.

To be fair the Colt Python 2020 isn't worth 1,600. The "old" Colt Python wasn't worth that either. Nothing like a revolver that destroys it's own arm.

The 686 takes the Python to the competition woodshed ever single time. That's speed, accuracy, and durability. US comp shooters weren't ignoring the Python because it's "too pretty to shoot."

Not all competitions are the same and what makes one gun well suited for one doesn't mean it will be well suited for another. You must remember that the Colt Python was introduced in 1955 and was, from the outset, designed to be a high-end revolver primarily focused to target shooting (I have read that it was originally designed as a .38 Special and, at the last minute, it was decided to chamber it for .357 Magnum to make it seem more "deluxe"). The "practical shooting" competitions that you site the Python as being deficient in didn't exist in the 1950's and the ideas on how a DA revolver should be shot were different back then than they are today.

A lot more people, including police, shot their DA revolvers predominantly one-handed and in SA. Back then, the predominant school of thought was that revolvers should be shot single-action whenever practicable as that would increase accuracy and that double-action should only be used emergently at very short distances. Also, most of the competitions back then were one-handed, slow-fire bullseye-type shooting.

For that type of shooting, the old Colt double-pawl lockup (as the original Pythons had) is arguably superior. You see, when in proper time an older Colt will have no perceptible rotational play when the action is at full lockup (this is often called the "bank vault" lockup) and thus the chambers are more precisely aligned with the barrel thus delivering slightly greater accuracy especially with full-wadcutters which do not have a rounded or SWC type nose to "guide" them into the forcing cone. Also, many at the time felt that while S&W had a smoother DA trigger, Colts generally had a crisper SA trigger which was preferred by target shooters though in the specimens of both that I personally own the difference is very small if perceptible at all.

Colt slipped into second and then third place behind S&W and Ruger due to both different ideas about how DA revolvers should be used and cost. The old double-pawl lockwork is complicated and expensive to make and produced a DA trigger which "stacks" noticeably before it breaks. Colt did attempt to revise its DA lockwork starting with the Mk. III series and continuing with the Mk. V, original King Cobra, and Anaconda. Unfortunately they still weren't able to out-compete S&W and later Ruger for price and the died-in-the-wool Colt aficionados tended to look down their noses at the revised lockwork as "cheap" or "not real Colts" (not an opinion I share as every one I've ever handled seemed to be a very nice revolver.

[ZoieBarnett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ZLvTrlhbI
Just came across this video, would you like to have one of this?