unknown Italian reproduction 1851 navy revolver

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 12:33 PM

I have an Italian made 1851 navy revolver with proper italian proof marks mfd in 1972, however there is NO manufacturer's mark just a serial number 21xxx. Would like to know more about it but at a dead end. It has what looks like a silver backstrap and trigger guard but they are untarnished and is in the standard .36 cal. Can anybody help me out???

junkman_01 · January 26, 2011, 12:45 PM

Not unless you show us some detailed pics of the various areas of the frame and barrel. Serial numbers on Italian reproductions mean next to nothing.

Fingers McGee · January 26, 2011, 12:50 PM

What are the barrel markings? On top and on the bottom? What are the markings on the bottom of the frame & on the backstrap?

Pictures would help.

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 01:16 PM

How are these

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2011, 01:16 PM

Serial numbers can be at six different places on the piece. Where it is may tell you something about who put it on there in the first place.

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 01:19 PM

serial number located forward of trigger guard

junkman_01 · January 26, 2011, 01:21 PM

Look under the loading lever on the bottom of the barrel for markings.

Fingers McGee · January 26, 2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnguy

How are these

No help. Need picture of serial number under frame, top and bottom of barrel and bottom of backstrap

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 01:26 PM

no markings found under lever

mykeal · January 26, 2011, 01:28 PM

Please provide pictures of:
the barrel under the loading lever, especially where it enters the frame,
the bottom of the gun forward of the trigger guard where the trigger guard, frame and barrel assembly come together,
bottom of the grip frame,
both sides of the grip frame with the grips removed
back of cylinder

All these areas may contain marks which provide clues as to the origin of the gun.

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 01:44 PM

they are no markings on top or below barrel just the two proof marks and cal .36 NAVY MODEL-MADE IN ITALY- on the side and BLACK POWDER ONLY on the other side lower flat.

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 02:12 PM

the only other markings I see are on the grip frame looks like an 18 or a 81 scribed in the grip frame

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 02:15 PM

only marks on the cylinder are two proof house marks and PATENT N

BConklin · January 26, 2011, 02:16 PM

You have more info on it than I have on the one I got....it has only one marking that I can find - BLACK POWDER ONLY - MADE IN ITALY. Other than that I can't find any proof marks...numbers...NOTHING

junkman_01 · January 26, 2011, 02:19 PM

Man, that is one poorly cast front strap!:barf:

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 02:32 PM

Thought all guns from italy made after 1950 must bear proof house marks

arcticap · January 26, 2011, 02:33 PM

There's a photo of a similar 1851 on the RPRCA website, 3rd row down on the far right. The one next to it has the same configuration but with the square back trigger guard.

http://rprca.tripod.com/ModelsColt1851Navy.htm

Quote:

1851 Navy 3rd Model Civilian Model. Silver Trigger Guard & Back Strap 6" Barrel .36Cal.(.44Cal. Shown)

So the silver parts are nickel plated, right?

Quote:

Thought all guns from italy made after 1950 must bear proof house marks

These are the proof marks on the frame and again next to the wedge:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...7&d=1296065752

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...6&d=1296065752

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 03:00 PM

I think it would be safe to say it is nickel plated as it is not tarnished and yes those are the proof house marks

gnguy · January 26, 2011, 03:08 PM

The first mark is the provsional Gardone proof the second is a black powder proof of Gardone and Brescia the third mark "xx8" is the proof date code for 1972

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2011, 03:53 PM

.....That ASP marked the grip frames at the approximate location of the 81 on your revolver. This was noted on two Remington revolvers which is not confirmation of the practice only evidence that it was done two times. They marked also the trigger guard and the grips. The difference is that it was done with a numeral punch or stamp and not scratched into the part.

gnguy · January 27, 2011, 12:07 PM

Looks like everyones stumped on this one, bummer

Fingers McGee · January 27, 2011, 12:38 PM

It's got me stumped. My guess would be either an ASM, ASP, or Uberti; in that order.

gnguy · January 31, 2011, 11:11 AM

why would'nt a company stamp their name on it you would think they would be proud of their product

arcticap · January 31, 2011, 11:55 AM

Now days, some folks complain because there's too much writing stamped on the reproduction guns. The stamped lettering makes it look less authentic and the manufacturer was trying to produce a more realistic Colt clone. Many historical reenactors feel that the less stamping there is the better.
In a way it's similar to how there's often not any specific history attached to an authentic 19th century Colt gun, i.e. who carried it, where and what it went through after it was made, shipped and sold. Because the individual history of most old guns is lost it just becomes an old gun subject to one's imagination.

Doc Hoy · January 31, 2011, 12:04 PM

It appears that some importers over the years did not want other markings on their stuff. Witness Euroarms.

Navy Arms and CVA is different.

January 26, 2011, 12:33 PM	#1
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	unknown Italian reproduction 1851 navy revolver I have an Italian made 1851 navy revolver with proper italian proof marks mfd in 1972, however there is NO manufacturer's mark just a serial number 21xxx. Would like to know more about it but at a dead end. It has what looks like a silver backstrap and trigger guard but they are untarnished and is in the standard .36 cal. Can anybody help me out??? Last edited by gnguy; January 26, 2011 at 03:37 PM.

January 26, 2011, 12:50 PM	#3
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	What are the barrel markings? On top and on the bottom? What are the markings on the bottom of the frame & on the backstrap? Pictures would help. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 26, 2011, 01:16 PM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Where is the serial number marked? Serial numbers can be at six different places on the piece. Where it is may tell you something about who put it on there in the first place. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2011, 01:19 PM	#6
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	serial number serial number located forward of trigger guard

January 26, 2011, 01:26 PM	#9
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	barrel markings no markings found under lever

January 26, 2011, 12:45 PM	#2
junkman_01 Junior member Join Date: November 9, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 260	Not unless you show us some detailed pics of the various areas of the frame and barrel. Serial numbers on Italian reproductions mean next to nothing.

January 26, 2011, 01:21 PM	#7
junkman_01 Junior member Join Date: November 9, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 260	Look under the loading lever on the bottom of the barrel for markings.

January 26, 2011, 01:28 PM	#10
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Please provide pictures of: the barrel under the loading lever, especially where it enters the frame, the bottom of the gun forward of the trigger guard where the trigger guard, frame and barrel assembly come together, bottom of the grip frame, both sides of the grip frame with the grips removed back of cylinder All these areas may contain marks which provide clues as to the origin of the gun.

January 26, 2011, 02:15 PM	#13
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	cylinder only marks on the cylinder are two proof house marks and PATENT N

January 26, 2011, 02:16 PM	#14
BConklin Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2010 Posts: 136	You have more info on it than I have on the one I got....it has only one marking that I can find - BLACK POWDER ONLY - MADE IN ITALY. Other than that I can't find any proof marks...numbers...NOTHING

January 26, 2011, 02:19 PM	#15
junkman_01 Junior member Join Date: November 9, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 260	Man, that is one poorly cast front strap!:barf:

January 26, 2011, 02:32 PM	#16
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	PROOF MARKS Thought all guns from italy made after 1950 must bear proof house marks

January 26, 2011, 03:00 PM	#18
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	I think it would be safe to say it is nickel plated as it is not tarnished and yes those are the proof house marks

January 26, 2011, 03:08 PM	#19
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	The first mark is the provsional Gardone proof the second is a black powder proof of Gardone and Brescia the third mark "xx8" is the proof date code for 1972

January 26, 2011, 03:53 PM	#20
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	It came to my attention a day or so ago.... .....That ASP marked the grip frames at the approximate location of the 81 on your revolver. This was noted on two Remington revolvers which is not confirmation of the practice only evidence that it was done two times. They marked also the trigger guard and the grips. The difference is that it was done with a numeral punch or stamp and not scratched into the part. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 27, 2011, 12:07 PM	#21
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	Looks like everyones stumped on this one, bummer

January 27, 2011, 12:38 PM	#22
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	It's got me stumped. My guess would be either an ASM, ASP, or Uberti; in that order. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 31, 2011, 11:11 AM	#23
gnguy Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Posts: 12	why would'nt a company stamp their name on it you would think they would be proud of their product

January 31, 2011, 11:55 AM	#24
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Now days, some folks complain because there's too much writing stamped on the reproduction guns. The stamped lettering makes it look less authentic and the manufacturer was trying to produce a more realistic Colt clone. Many historical reenactors feel that the less stamping there is the better. In a way it's similar to how there's often not any specific history attached to an authentic 19th century Colt gun, i.e. who carried it, where and what it went through after it was made, shipped and sold. Because the individual history of most old guns is lost it just becomes an old gun subject to one's imagination. Last edited by arcticap; January 31, 2011 at 12:09 PM.

January 31, 2011, 12:04 PM	#25
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	And It appears that some importers over the years did not want other markings on their stuff. Witness Euroarms. Navy Arms and CVA is different. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.