Small 9mms

defjon · January 6, 2012, 09:57 AM

I am looking for a compact or sub compact 9mm, I don't really know the technical differences. Smaller, more concealable obviously. I would like there to be some kind of safety, looks wouldn't hurt, and a mag capacity of 12 round is preferable, 10 acceptable.

Specifically, does anyone know the differences in size between say a Stoegar cougar and a Bersa Thunder 9 pro sub compact? I owned the former, originally for CCW on my out of state permits, but the Cougar is pretty large.

I am looking hard at the Bersa, having owned their 22 Thunder and currently still own their 380 Thunder. Exceptional guns, you get much more than you pay for.

I was also looking at SW 6906 or the single stack version, but they do have some serious heft. Not ruling them out but I don't like ultra thick grips, the 5906/6906 is pretty dang thick.

If anyone has owned a Bersa thunder 9 compact and a stoegar/beretta cougar I would love to know if the Bersa is much smaller. Also, if I am missing anything here, I would take recommendations!

Should say, also tried the G26- accurate gun, way more so then the 17s I used to have....but I can't get comfortable with a round in the chamber and a safety on the trigger. Just my own deal. Read too many horror stories about reholstering, accidents, and just seen too much of that happening in the trained LEO market which utilizes them. I like a manual safety.

Also tried the Beretta 9000 but that grip is fubar.

Fishbed77 · January 6, 2012, 10:03 AM

If I was looking for a smaller 9mm with that kind of capacity and a manual safety, I'd be looking at the Ruger SR9C.

jimbob86 · January 6, 2012, 10:06 AM

I like my brother's sR9c ...... but I like my EMP more ..... did not like the price tag, but that only hurt once.

Marquezj16 · January 6, 2012, 10:20 AM

XDm 3.8 Compact - 13 rounds, grip safety

92 FS Compact - 13 rounds, safety/decocker on slide

loose_holster_dan · January 6, 2012, 11:20 AM

manual safeties are becoming very rare. i keep mine in a kydex holster, so i'm not too worried about it going off.

the xdm will def give you your other features tho.

jimbob86 · January 6, 2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

manual safeties are becoming very rare.

Really?

Pianoguy · January 6, 2012, 11:38 AM

10+ rounds (so you will need a double stack mag), a safety, CC-capable and good looking (very subjective) - the primary ones that jump to mind are the Ruger SR9c and the Beretta Px4 subcompact. The Springfield Arms XDsc has a grip safety and otherwise meats your requirements. The Bersa Thunder 9 is okay but isn't that small compared to the Thunder 380 I last looked. if you are looking for a 10+ capacity gun as small as your Thunder 380 you might be out of luck.

The round capacity throws out pretty much all the smaller CC guns being sold now (where weight and width are at a premium for people) and most of them don't have manual safeties either. Many of the compact pistols w/ 10+ capacity have more glock-like triggers and safeties (like the S&W's, Walthers, etc - all really nice guns but no manual safeties). They tend to compete w/ the Glocks and so have similar triggers and no safeties. Others may be okay for you but might be too big.

I have a Sig P250sc w/ no manual safety but a long DAO trigger which for all practical purposes serves as a safety. Lots of guns are like this. It works for me and I origianally wanted a safety, too. Actually with more experience, I (along w/ lots of people) have come to the conclusion that the safety is a nuissance. Be careful hostering the gun the first time, hopefully you should never have to take it out until it's time to put the gun away. Limit how much you handle the gun and practice drawing the weapon without grabbing the trigger. Basic stuff.

carguychris · January 6, 2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

I was also looking at SW 6906 or the single stack version, but they do have some serious heft. Not ruling them out but I don't like ultra thick grips, the 5906/6906 is pretty dang thick.

These guns were available as a compact 8rd single-stack that's a good deal thinner than the 59- and 69-series.

Models were:

3913 - SS, DA/SA
3914 - Blued, DA/SA
3953 - SS, DAO
3954 - Blued, DAO
908 - "Value Series" 3914; some plastic parts, less slide machining, no RH-side ambi decocker/safety
908S - "Value Series" 3913

"LS"-series LadySmith and "NL"-series guns have a sleeker frame and rounded slide edges, and are slightly less common and more expensive than the others. ("NL" is colloquially said to stand for "Not LadySmith" and is the exact same gun without the machismo-sapping, effeminate, Lose Your Man Card, engraved "LadySmith" script.

)

Although these are all discontinued, they remain very popular for CCW. This fact has kept resale values high, however! These guns are only slightly larger than a Ruger LC9; they are a good deal heavier, but this may be a Good Thing depending on your preference.

Chesster · January 6, 2012, 01:03 PM

Not sure if it is small enough for your needs but the Sig P6/225 fits the bill for my small 9mm.

RUN2424 · January 6, 2012, 01:10 PM

I carry the Kel Tec P11 9mm. Not much for a range gun/plinking,no safety the trigger is the safety.Its a long heavy pull... just my 2 cents.....

lyodbraun · January 6, 2012, 02:05 PM

Agree the trigger is the Safety as long as you use trigger discilpline you will not have any problems... safetys do fail although rare it can and does happen..

wbw · January 6, 2012, 03:20 PM

You didn't ask for it, but here it is anyway. carguychris in post #8 above, suggests the S&W single stacks. Here is a comparison of my 3913 and my Stoeger Cougar. (3913 being the smaller of the two)

Pukindog12 · January 6, 2012, 04:46 PM

I own two Stoeger Cougar 8000s and one Bersa Thunder 9UC Pro. One Cougar and the UC9 both get carried during the cold weather. Both are comfortable but the UC9 more so thus it gets carried more. The fact that the UC9 is a little smaller is the reason.

Here is a link comparing the two:

http://genitron.com/HandgunDB/DB-Com...&ID2=529&ID3=0

It compares the Beretta Cougar to the BTUC9 Pro. The Stoeger Cougar and the Beretta Cougar are essentially identical. The reason the Stoeger Cougar wasn't shown is because a couple dimensions are missing for it. To get more information on the desired pistol just click the "view details" tab at the bottom.

I hope this helps.

BTW, both these weapons are great. Most bang for your buck IMO.

C0untZer0 · January 6, 2012, 04:50 PM

Another option is the HK P7 either PSP/M8 or M13 - they are slim, small, great and unique safety setup on them, but they are expensive.

dgludwig · January 6, 2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

I was also looking at SW 6906 or the single stack version, but they do have some serious heft. Not ruling them out but I don't like ultra thick grips, the 5906/6906 is pretty dang thick.

Quote:

and a mag capacity of 12 round is preferable, 10 acceptable.

The Model 6906 is a fine choice. Reliable, well-made and affordable (there are still many nice "police trade-ins" available that are relatively cheap). Yes, they are a mite broad across the grip but if you want twelve rounds on board, you're going to have to accept the reality of a thicker grip. I carried a Model 6906 for years as a duty piece (I still carry it now as a "civilian" after retiring) and have never found it to be uncomfortable or difficult to conceal. Reliability trumps everything else when it comes to relying on a pistol for self-defense and third generation Smiths are about as reliable as a pistol can be.

Water-Man · January 6, 2012, 05:15 PM

S&W M&P9c

Pinky Carruthers · January 6, 2012, 07:34 PM

I have two Bersa Thunder 9 UCs. One with over 5K through it and the other with about 2k through it. Both have been 100% reliable so far.
The Bersa is almost the same size as the S&W 3913 except slightly shorter in length and wider of course. The Bersa is basically the same size as a Walther PPS, but again it is wider.
I carry either my Walther PPS or one of my Bersa T9 UCs.

lee n. field · January 6, 2012, 11:32 PM

Doesn't quite fit your specs, but..

Mrgunsngear · January 7, 2012, 07:35 AM

I think you're really limiting your options with the safety but if you're set on it go with the S&W M&P9c. I have the one sans-safety and it's a great gun.

A lot of the pocket 9's don't have safeties because the smaller the gun gets, the smaller the safetys/controls generally get. When there's a life or death situation, fine motor skills erode (the degree depends largely on training) and operating the safety, particularly a small one, becomes relatively difficult. Most of the pocket 9's therefor either use a heavy/long DA pull or some type of trigger bar safety.

If you're willing to go non safety, I vote for the Kahr CM9 or Walther PPS. They have the best triggers in the class and are great all around guns IMO.

dean1818 · January 7, 2012, 08:02 AM

The M&P is a great Line of pistols

I have the 45C

But, if your looking for a 9mm that is very small (pocketable) a Kahr CM9 might fit your needs(i love mine)

They are also very accurate and you can shoot them without fearing recoil.

And lastly.....buying USA made, should be a factor, IMHO

tekarra · January 7, 2012, 08:39 AM

cZ has good line up of compact pistols and a good subcompact in the RAMI.

540EdgeFlyer · January 7, 2012, 08:43 AM

SR9C

checkmyswag · January 7, 2012, 08:51 AM

My pockets can't really do pocket 9. They may fit but arr very bulky and impractical to draw. Pocket 380s work well.

Dashunde · January 7, 2012, 10:54 AM

Its not what your thinking originally, but I'd recommend you consider the PM9, CM9, or CW9.
Thin, light, very good shooters, extrememly nice smooth long DOA trigger that rivals most garden variety SA triggers if you ask me.

They dont have the round count you mentioned, but you can carry a spare mag on the other side and that makes for a nice balanced load - much better than a thicker heavier larger gun + 10 or so rounds tugging relentlessly on one side.

As for safety... well, you dont need one. Its a long smooth pull, your only real vulnerablity is reholstering it.
This is what I do.

drcook · January 7, 2012, 11:18 AM

The CZ PCR has a 14 round magazine, a decocker and great ergonomics. Also as stated above, CZ has a great smaller pistol in the RAMI. There is even a version of the RAMI with a decocker. The current generation of CZ's have firing pin blocks (except for possibly some target only tuned pistols)

January 6, 2012, 09:57 AM	#1
defjon Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2005 Posts: 785	Small 9mms I am looking for a compact or sub compact 9mm, I don't really know the technical differences. Smaller, more concealable obviously. I would like there to be some kind of safety, looks wouldn't hurt, and a mag capacity of 12 round is preferable, 10 acceptable. Specifically, does anyone know the differences in size between say a Stoegar cougar and a Bersa Thunder 9 pro sub compact? I owned the former, originally for CCW on my out of state permits, but the Cougar is pretty large. I am looking hard at the Bersa, having owned their 22 Thunder and currently still own their 380 Thunder. Exceptional guns, you get much more than you pay for. I was also looking at SW 6906 or the single stack version, but they do have some serious heft. Not ruling them out but I don't like ultra thick grips, the 5906/6906 is pretty dang thick. If anyone has owned a Bersa thunder 9 compact and a stoegar/beretta cougar I would love to know if the Bersa is much smaller. Also, if I am missing anything here, I would take recommendations! Should say, also tried the G26- accurate gun, way more so then the 17s I used to have....but I can't get comfortable with a round in the chamber and a safety on the trigger. Just my own deal. Read too many horror stories about reholstering, accidents, and just seen too much of that happening in the trained LEO market which utilizes them. I like a manual safety. Also tried the Beretta 9000 but that grip is fubar.

January 6, 2012, 11:20 AM	#5
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	manual safeties are becoming very rare. i keep mine in a kydex holster, so i'm not too worried about it going off. the xdm will def give you your other features tho. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

January 6, 2012, 01:03 PM	#9
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	Not sure if it is small enough for your needs but the Sig P6/225 fits the bill for my small 9mm. __________________ Chesster Proud NDN "The American Idle" Vote 'Pro-Choice' on 2nd Amendment issues!!!

January 6, 2012, 01:10 PM	#10
RUN2424 Member Join Date: December 20, 2011 Location: Mustang.Ok Posts: 47	Kel Tec I carry the Kel Tec P11 9mm. Not much for a range gun/plinking,no safety the trigger is the safety.Its a long heavy pull... just my 2 cents.....

January 6, 2012, 07:34 PM	#17
Pinky Carruthers Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 649	I have two Bersa Thunder 9 UCs. One with over 5K through it and the other with about 2k through it. Both have been 100% reliable so far. The Bersa is almost the same size as the S&W 3913 except slightly shorter in length and wider of course. The Bersa is basically the same size as a Walther PPS, but again it is wider. I carry either my Walther PPS or one of my Bersa T9 UCs. __________________ "Love lost, fire at will Dum Dum bullets and shoot to kill I hear dive bombers, and Empire down." SOM

January 6, 2012, 10:03 AM	#2
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	If I was looking for a smaller 9mm with that kind of capacity and a manual safety, I'd be looking at the Ruger SR9C.

January 6, 2012, 10:06 AM	#3
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	I like my brother's sR9c ...... but I like my EMP more ..... did not like the price tag, but that only hurt once.

January 6, 2012, 11:38 AM	#7
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	10+ rounds (so you will need a double stack mag), a safety, CC-capable and good looking (very subjective) - the primary ones that jump to mind are the Ruger SR9c and the Beretta Px4 subcompact. The Springfield Arms XDsc has a grip safety and otherwise meats your requirements. The Bersa Thunder 9 is okay but isn't that small compared to the Thunder 380 I last looked. if you are looking for a 10+ capacity gun as small as your Thunder 380 you might be out of luck. The round capacity throws out pretty much all the smaller CC guns being sold now (where weight and width are at a premium for people) and most of them don't have manual safeties either. Many of the compact pistols w/ 10+ capacity have more glock-like triggers and safeties (like the S&W's, Walthers, etc - all really nice guns but no manual safeties). They tend to compete w/ the Glocks and so have similar triggers and no safeties. Others may be okay for you but might be too big. I have a Sig P250sc w/ no manual safety but a long DAO trigger which for all practical purposes serves as a safety. Lots of guns are like this. It works for me and I origianally wanted a safety, too. Actually with more experience, I (along w/ lots of people) have come to the conclusion that the safety is a nuissance. Be careful hostering the gun the first time, hopefully you should never have to take it out until it's time to put the gun away. Limit how much you handle the gun and practice drawing the weapon without grabbing the trigger. Basic stuff.

January 6, 2012, 02:05 PM	#11
lyodbraun Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 90	Agree the trigger is the Safety as long as you use trigger discilpline you will not have any problems... safetys do fail although rare it can and does happen..

January 6, 2012, 03:20 PM	#12
wbw Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2008 Location: York Pa. Posts: 738	You didn't ask for it, but here it is anyway. carguychris in post #8 above, suggests the S&W single stacks. Here is a comparison of my 3913 and my Stoeger Cougar. (3913 being the smaller of the two)

January 6, 2012, 04:46 PM	#13
Pukindog12 Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2011 Posts: 208	I own two Stoeger Cougar 8000s and one Bersa Thunder 9UC Pro. One Cougar and the UC9 both get carried during the cold weather. Both are comfortable but the UC9 more so thus it gets carried more. The fact that the UC9 is a little smaller is the reason. Here is a link comparing the two: http://genitron.com/HandgunDB/DB-Com...&ID2=529&ID3=0 It compares the Beretta Cougar to the BTUC9 Pro. The Stoeger Cougar and the Beretta Cougar are essentially identical. The reason the Stoeger Cougar wasn't shown is because a couple dimensions are missing for it. To get more information on the desired pistol just click the "view details" tab at the bottom. I hope this helps. BTW, both these weapons are great. Most bang for your buck IMO.

January 6, 2012, 04:50 PM	#14
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Another option is the HK P7 either PSP/M8 or M13 - they are slim, small, great and unique safety setup on them, but they are expensive.

January 6, 2012, 05:15 PM	#16
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	S&W M&P9c

January 7, 2012, 07:35 AM	#19
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	I think you're really limiting your options with the safety but if you're set on it go with the S&W M&P9c. I have the one sans-safety and it's a great gun. A lot of the pocket 9's don't have safeties because the smaller the gun gets, the smaller the safetys/controls generally get. When there's a life or death situation, fine motor skills erode (the degree depends largely on training) and operating the safety, particularly a small one, becomes relatively difficult. Most of the pocket 9's therefor either use a heavy/long DA pull or some type of trigger bar safety. If you're willing to go non safety, I vote for the Kahr CM9 or Walther PPS. They have the best triggers in the class and are great all around guns IMO.

January 7, 2012, 08:02 AM	#20
dean1818 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Frisco Texas Posts: 844	The M&P is a great Line of pistols I have the 45C But, if your looking for a 9mm that is very small (pocketable) a Kahr CM9 might fit your needs(i love mine) They are also very accurate and you can shoot them without fearing recoil. And lastly.....buying USA made, should be a factor, IMHO __________________ An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Buying American made, wherever I still can

January 7, 2012, 08:39 AM	#21
tekarra Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2007 Posts: 1,164	cZ has good line up of compact pistols and a good subcompact in the RAMI.

January 7, 2012, 08:43 AM	#22
540EdgeFlyer Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2011 Posts: 113	SR9C

January 7, 2012, 08:51 AM	#23
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	My pockets can't really do pocket 9. They may fit but arr very bulky and impractical to draw. Pocket 380s work well. __________________ No brass. No ammo.

January 7, 2012, 10:54 AM	#24
Dashunde Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 2,018	Its not what your thinking originally, but I'd recommend you consider the PM9, CM9, or CW9. Thin, light, very good shooters, extrememly nice smooth long DOA trigger that rivals most garden variety SA triggers if you ask me. They dont have the round count you mentioned, but you can carry a spare mag on the other side and that makes for a nice balanced load - much better than a thicker heavier larger gun + 10 or so rounds tugging relentlessly on one side. As for safety... well, you dont need one. Its a long smooth pull, your only real vulnerablity is reholstering it. This is what I do. Last edited by Dashunde; January 7, 2012 at 11:01 AM.

January 7, 2012, 11:18 AM	#25
drcook Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 285	The CZ PCR has a 14 round magazine, a decocker and great ergonomics. Also as stated above, CZ has a great smaller pistol in the RAMI. There is even a version of the RAMI with a decocker. The current generation of CZ's have firing pin blocks (except for possibly some target only tuned pistols)