Head Shots on Deer?

[Todd1700]

I got a couple of guys really giving me hell on another forum because I'm of the opinion that taking head shots on deer is just a pretty bad idea in general. Here's my case but I'm curious to hear what the general opinion here is.

First I cannot see why you would want to aim at such a small kill zone on a deer when the heart lung area is so much larger irregardless of your marksmanship skills. Aim at the center of the heart lung area and you have at least a good 4 or 5 inch margin of error in any direction. On a head shot a few inches can take you from a lightening kill to a maimed deer.

Second, even when a deer is standing still it will still often be moving it's head quite a bit. Sometimes suddenly and with little warning. The heart lung area being on the torso is a much more stable target that moves very little when the deer is standing still. Why shoot at a potentially moving target when a much more stationary one is right there for the drilling.

Third, they claim that sometimes it's the only shot you have. Well I tell you, I have hunted whitetails a lot of years, from trees, from ground stands, while stalk hunting and even in front of dogs. Perhaps there was a time or two that I saw a deer I would have shot and didn't because the only view I had was of it's head, but if so, I can't remember it. Therefore I refuse to believe that situation is one that happens often enough to severely hurt a hunters ability to fill his tags. This is also a safety issue to me as well. If all you can see is a deer's head is it really a good idea to shoot? More than one hunter has been killed by another who thought he was shooting at part of a deer that he saw through the brush.

Fourth, some of them claim they do it because it spoils no meat. Sorry, I reject this claim too. A bullet through the ribs behind the shoulders destroys very little edible meat. In fact it destroys none at all unless you eat deer ribs, deer lungs or deer heart. Maybe some people eat the ribs on deer but the one time I tried them, I was left with the impression that there was so little meat on them that they were a waste of time to fool with.

Fifth, they say it puts them down fast. Sure, when all goes well there's no doubt about that. But is a heart/lung hit deer gonna run far enough to make this minor benefit worth the risk? I just don't see it. I mean we are talking a difference of less than 100 yards.

Lastly, some state that they don't do it normally but if it came down to not filling their tag and it was the only shot they had they would do it. Well if your family is going hungry then sure I guess. But I doubt that is the case with most hunters. If there is one thought I could purge from the collective psyche of the American hunter it is the notion that the worst thing that can possibly happen on a hunt is that you "Not Kill Something". And that that outcome is so unbearable that any risk you take in an attempt to avoid it is therefore justified. I've come home from many hunts empty handed. I've come home from other states and ate a big bowl of tag soup several times. But those outcomes don't bother me 1/100th as much as the prospect of wounding and losing an animal because I did something stupid. Wish everyone felt the same.

So there's my case. What say you? Am I being an intolerant a-hole and cramming my ethics down other peoples throats or do you agree with my feelings? Feel free to blast away. Trust me you cannot hurt my feelings and I've got my asbestos underwear on. LOL!

[ZeroJunk]

I don't think much of the idea. As you mentioned a deer is constantly bobbing it's head up and down looking for danger. I have seen two deer with their lower jaw shot off over the years by somebody who made a bad decision in my judgement. The same shot deviation in the vital area would have been a quick kill.

[hooligan1]

Way back in 1978-79, I hunted with a small group of high school friends. One of them hunted with a 12 guage single shot crack-in-half, Well his father told him never shoot deer in the side,( yes..these were the olsd mans words) always shoot'em in the head, well its just like zerojunk says a small deviation and we have a deer running through the forest with no jaw and it's tongue laid all the way back to it's neck..The reason I can say this is I saw a large doe run by me not long after a distant shot rang out..At that time does were verbotten in Missouri. I had no shot on her because of the speed she was carrying the mail,,At the camp fire that night everybody spoke of their day and the boy who uses the 12 guage spoke up and said " I got a shot at a nice buck but I guess he run off, I looked around and found no blood so I went back to my tree". That's when I spoke up and I asked him about his aim point on the deer, and of course he said he was aiming at the head... To make a long story short MDC got called out to the forest where we were camped and started investigating the jawless deer that about 20 hunters had seen during the day, well they hit our camp and suprising this kid stood up and told the agents that he indeed had shot the deer but was scared of what his father would do to him for shooting an illegal deer. He was never invited back to our deer camp. That was the worst thibng to see that deer running through the woods with her tongue slapping her neck. HIGH SHOULDER HEART SHOT, I think I learned that from Clay Harvey, and Aaron Davidson. Thanks for coming! (head shoot terrorist not deers)

[BIG P]

I dont think its the best shot either but I use a223 ar here in GA. A good bit we enjoy good numbers of deer/a long season also alot of shots are pretty close.so with a small fast cal.like 223 head/neck aint that risky.I dont use head shots with bigger guns like .270/30-06 high shoulder is much better choice.We all should keep our abilitys in check before any shot we owe it to the deer.

[DiscoRacing]

Depends on which gun i use that year... when i use 30-06 i dont shoot for the head... when i use .223 i do... I figure that since I hunt squirrels and shoot them in the head Im sure I can hit a deer in the head...also.. Im talking about shooting at only 50-60 yards...because the spot that we have cleared to shoot deer only allow for that distance of shooting.

[Hoskins]

Todd...I'm in your camp. I am a good shot, but I am not going to risk blowing a deers jaw off & having it starve to death. we owe it to our game to make the death as humne & respectful as possible. I have seen alot of combat & have laid rounds down on plenty of "living things." I am not weak when it comes to killing...but I just can't stand the thought of wounding an animal & having it get away & suffer.

I remember squirrel hunting with my .22. I pulled a shot on a squirrel & it ended up paralyzing the lower half of its body. I chased the sucker down until I could put it down properly...I felt like crap & it bothered me for a bit that I had done it.

I say target the bigger vital area. you are right, the head is always bobbing because of them feeding, smelling, & constantly scanning for danger. Additionally, there is alot of factors that can mess up your shot...including adrenalin. Just my opinion though.

[davlandrum]

I totally agree with you, Todd.

[doofus47]

You're right, Todd.
I didn't know that there was an argument to be made for trying a head shot.

[James R. Burke]

Just myself I dont do them, and only straight on neck shots. If it's a buck you may blow the rack up, or just miss. Also like the one post said he seen a few wounded with lower jaw blowen off. I seen deer with a hole thru the wind pipe still breathing like a trackotommy. I am sure thats some bad spelling. Most the time I am looking for a big eight or bigger or to fill a doe tag. With a big buck that we always look for I am going to aim at the vitals were it will be the most forgiving. Even though I can bounce a beer cap around at 100 yards. The shot changes with the position of the deer, or you may need to leave it walk. If you do leave it walk who knows may be back another day. But I dont take head shots, and that is just myself. To each is own, and if your good at it more power to you. Lots of deer I was waiting for a good shot, and had them start to leave were I could not ge a shot. So I make a little cough. Most the time they will stop to look at what done it. The last one I did that with started running on the third cough he stopped looked around and started walking at me. He stopped about fifty yards in front of me broadside. Nice ten pointer, shot him right behind the front shoulder, and it was a pass thru not much damage. He turned to make a step and fell over.

[oneounceload]

Knew a person a while back who hunted with a TC Contender in 22 K hornet and ONLY took head shots on deer and only when he knew he could make it, which was typically under 75 yards. If you know your gun and are proficient, that's your call to make

[Scorch]

Am I being an intolerant a-hole and cramming my ethics down other peoples throats or do you agree with my feelings?

People judge other people's actions based on what they know, not what the other people know. That does not make you an ahole, but it does make you somewhat biased. You do present a very well-formulated question, so here is my take on the issue:

First I cannot see why you would want to aim at such a small kill zone on a deer when the heart lung area is so much larger irregardless of your marksmanship skills.

For a trained marksman, hitting a target 3" in diameter is no different than hitting a target 13" in diameter, because he is aiming for a particular point on the animal, not the whole animal. This does require trigger discipline, however. You cannot just start blasting away at any animal that shows itself, you have to pick your shots.

Second, even when a deer is standing still it will still often be moving it's head quite a bit

Most mature animals will look around and listen for danger, when they do they will hold still for several seconds at a time, definitely long enough for a well-placed shot to the neck/base of the skull.

Third, they claim that sometimes it's the only shot you have.

That is a poor excuse for any shooting. If you don't have a shot, you don't have a shot.

Fourth, some of them claim they do it because it spoils no meat. Sorry, I reject this claim too. A bullet through the ribs behind the shoulders destroys very little edible meat.

There is a difference between "no meat loss" and "very little meat loss", especially with many cartridges typically associated with deer hunting. A shot to the ribs from a 30-06, 270, or a 25-06 will bloodshot a large area around the wound, sometimes a very large area. Sure, it's just ribs, but it can involve the shoulder meat and chops. A neck or head shot from the same rifle will ruin a portion of meat around the entry site as well, but most people do not eat head meat.

Fifth, they say it puts them down fast.

Absolutely, no question about it, a well-placed head shot will put them down immediately. Even a perfectly executed chest shot will seldom put the animal down on the spot, and a running deer can cover a lot of ground. An animal shot in the chest that takes off at a dead run can also generate quite a bit of adrenaline (not always, but it is a normal reaction to fear), and many people do not like the flavor of meat tainted with adrenaline.

Lastly, some state that they don't do it normally but if it came down to not filling their tag and it was the only shot they had they would do it.

Again, that is a poor excuse for any shooting.

In summary, I see nothing wrong with a head shot as long as you have a clear standing shot. Of the last 5 deer I have shot, 3 were head/neck shots, 2 were chest shots because they were walking. But that's me. The ultimate judge of your hunting skills and performance is you yourself. If you do not feel comfortable shooting for the head, by all means don't do it.

[2damnold4this]

There is a difference between "no meat loss" and "very little meat loss", especially with many cartridges typically associated with deer hunting. A shot to the ribs from a 30-06, 270, or a 25-06 will bloodshot a large area around the wound, sometimes a very large area. Sure, it's just ribs, but it can involve the shoulder meat and chops. A neck or head shot from the same rifle will ruin a portion of meat around the entry site as well, but most people do not eat head meat.

Some people also eat organ meat.

[ZeroJunk]

Well, if I make 20 perfect head shots aiming at a 3 inch target instead of a 10 inch target and on the 21st the deer jerks at exactly the wrong moment ( assuming I am a perfect forum shot and I didn't jerk at exactly the wrong moment) and I shoot it in the jaw somewhere causing the deer to starve to death, that is unacceptable to me.

[Double Naught Spy]

Second, even when a deer is standing still it will still often be moving it's head quite a bit.

I believe you have stated an oxymoron. If a deer is standing and moving its head quite a bit, then it is not still.

Most mature animals will look around and listen for danger, when they do they will hold still for several seconds at a time, definitely long enough for a well-placed shot to the neck/base of the skull.

Yep. Anyone who has watched deer has watched them freeze for anywhere from a couple of seconds to 5-10 seconds or more.

[ZeroJunk]

Yep. Anyone who has watched deer has watched them freeze for anywhere from a couple of seconds to 5-10 seconds or more.
__________________

Sure, the problem is that you don't know exactly why or when they will decide to unfreeze.

I'm sure some of you are capable of making head shots, but as advice on a forum it sucks.

[James R. Burke]

You take the shot you want. No one can tell you what you can and can't do. Just myself if I have a shot at the biggest buck I seen to date I know the shot I will take. I always try to get something a little bigger than the last or back to the doe permit, but thats just me. If I should have a nice broadside shot at the buck of a lifetime I know were I am going to place the bullet, and it wont be in the head.

[HuntinVa]

Todd,

I, like you, am an experienced hunter and also like you do not like the mentality of the many who are willing to risk wounding deer or other hunters in the name of filling a tag. I agree with the majority of your post. The head is exponentially smaller and more mobile than the heart/lung area and if all you can see of a deer is the head i would recommend thinking very carefully about the shot.
All of that being said i have taken four head shots in my hunting career. All were with an open sighted 30-30 at ranges from 15 to 50 yards and all were successful. The first was on a doe that i had already wounded. I shot the first time and she ran a short distance and stopped still standing behind a cluster of large oak trees all i could see was her head, i was unsure of how badly she was wounded, i knew the area i was hunting and the location of all other hunters and i hate chasing wounded deer so i took the shot. The next head shot i took was on a buck another hunter had wounded. He had made poor shots only hitting one leg and the guts. When i waded up on this deer (he was in the middle of a deep swamp and i was the only one there with waders)he stood up and stared directly at me all i had to shoot at was his head and neck as his rear end was pointing away from me. Again i knew the land and the location of my fellow hunters so i took the shot. The others were similar situations of deer that had already been shot and needed quick humane follow ups.
I guess the point i am trying to make is an ethical experienced hunter should be trusted to make the call on his particular situation and what is necessary to make a clean kill. Let the basic rules of hunting and ethics be your guide and i don't think you can go wrong.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks

[oneounceload]

but as advice on a forum it sucks.

YOUR opinion and you're entitled to it;however, I would much rather see someone proficient take a close range head shot than some yahoo who just bought one of the uber-mags and starts blasting away at 500 yards or more when they can't hit the barn side from the inside with it

[Buzzcook]

I was raised to take the heart lung shot and now it's pretty much habit. Even when I could take a neck or head shot, It's the heart that gets it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with shooting for the head or neck. If a hunter can make the shot there's little reason not to.
But if your not dead certain, then don't do it.

Same with if it's the "only" shot. That's not a good enough reason.
I've hunted in woods where you don't get to see the whole animal. If it's a good shot then take it.
One of the things I had to learn was to move around for a better shot. Sometimes the deer spooks and sometimes you get a better shot.
Luckily I now hunt in open country.

[ZeroJunk]

YOUR opinion and you're entitled to it;however, I would much rather see someone proficient take a close range head shot than some yahoo who just bought one of the uber-mags and starts blasting away at 500 yards or more when they can't hit the barn side from the inside with it

Fair enough. But, what will stop some new hunter who just bought a rifle from reading internet forums and getting the idea that head shots are the cool thing to do.

[Daryl]

I've never seen a deer's head where I couldn't get a shot at it's neck.

Far preferable IMO, if that's the shot that's offered.

Otherwise, chest shots get the job done just fine for me.

Daryl

[Hog Hunter]

Ive never shot a deer in the head adn prolly never will on purpose. Hogs on the other hand Ive shot many of them in the noggin, but still prefer to shot them in the vitals cause I like to hear em scream. I know thats mean but its what keeps me going back.

[Crankylove]

I was raised to take the heart lung shot and now it's pretty much habit. Even when I could take a neck or head shot, It's the heart that gets it

Thats how I was raised as well.

My grandfather once shot an antelope at over 900 yards (measured distance) thru the left eyeball and into the brain.............after he called the shot. My younger brother also shot a speed goat in the eye......after calling the shot.......at 600 yds (also measured). They were absolutely great shots, and the shooters definitely have the skills to pull them off.......as for myself, I am just not comforatable taking head shots at distances like that. A standing broadside shot at 50 yards.......I may go for the head, but I doubt it. I am pretty sure it would still get a shot to the chest because I am just more confident in my ability to quickly and cleanly put down the animal with a chest shot than a head shot.......to each his own, I do what works for me.

[Crankylove]

still prefer to shot them in the vitals cause I like to hear em scream

So much for quick and clean kills.

[mitchell koster]

I aim 4 the neck or vitals.