No rifles in CAS?

[jcadwell]

I was wondering why there were no rifles allowed as lever guns in regular CAS... It looks like fun to participate in, but I have to buy 4 new guns... No double actions, no over/unders, no rifle rifles...

Is there a class to shoot cowboy style with less stringent gun requirements? It seems like most of the people doing this have a larger budget than I...

[Molasses]

Rifle caliber leverguns aren't allowed in the main match stages in CAS because the targets get kinda hard to hit when they've been turned into colanders. Not to mention that big ol' dents are a safety issue, as they tend to redirect stuff back towards the firing line... There are long range side matches for 'em, but rifle calibers are just too much of a good thing for the shorter distances.

My advice is: Just go to some of the local matches, get to know the folks there. You really don't need all your guns before starting out; folks practically fall over each other to share/lend stuff to new shooters (Good tip about that; offer to pay for the ammo you use and offer to provide your own in the future if you strike up with someone who you'll be borrowing from again). This is also a good way to find out what you REALLY want instead of buying guns you THINK you want now and then having to trade later. Finally, getting to know the local club members means they'll think of you when they decide to sell something at a good price...

[Hafoc]

Tell you the truth, the reason I'm still plinking with my CAS guns instead of shooting CAS is that they require too many guns. I HAVE a full outfit of CAS guns and a bit more, but I don't want to have to drag them all behind me. Gun carts. Bosh. Wyatt Earp didn't haul around no stinkin' gun carts.

Don't want two revolvers-- that's why I got the Schofield, you can RELOAD it. I might see a Schofield and a lever-action rifle OR shotgun. But when you have so much stuff you need a cart, that's not shooting. That's golf with guns.

Of course, I'm not expecting anyone to be so desperate for MY illustrious company that they'd change the whole blasted sport to suit ME.

[Grizz Adams]

Golf with guns! Har!! Actually, you can do it without the cart, but it is easier with it. Most ranges have long gun racks that you can put your rifle and shotgun in, and of course, you wear the pistols.

The only CAS group that I know of that only uses one pistol is OSWA - Old West Shootist Association out of Texas. Small group that host a major match once a year in Raton, NM.

[Old Dragoon]

NCOWS has a Working Cowboy class that uses one pistol and either a shotgun or rifle. Would really like to shoot that one one day.

[Evil Dog]

Another purpose that cart serves is it gives you a place to sit while watching everyone else shoot. Spend 4 or 5 hours at the range and actually pull a trigger less than 15 minutes.... what's wrong with that picture? That is why I quite the CAS thing years back. Cowboy ACTION Shooting? Where is the action in that?

[Musketeer]

CAS is a tough sell here in NY. Only permit holders may shoot since only they can even touch a handgun. No Permit No Shoot Handguns, PERIOD. If they had some Shotgun or Rifle only categories it might be nice.

Then there is the investment... ugh. Listen, I like my Uberti 5 1/2 45Colt SAA clone. I enjoy shooting it and reload for it. Do I want to spend another $400 for a duplicate, plus a rifle, plus a shotgun? Sorry but no. I, like many, do not like to borrow other people's fine firearms. One or two shots from a buddy's new gun at the range is nice but competing with it is a no-no for me.

CAS needs some variety at its core.

[ahankster]

You really have to love some people.

"CAS needs some variety at its core."

This fella has never shot, probably never even been to a match and wants the entire sport to suit him. Heck, I think no major league pitcher should be able to throw more than 40 mph, that way I could hit them, they should change the sport for ME!

CAS is all about variety. Hence the requirement of two pistols a shotgun and rifle. Every shoot, every club, every stage is different. If you just want to take you pistol to the dump and shoot rats, great. But if you want to compete in an organized competition, there are requirements and rules, just like the rest of society and any organized sport.

Also, to answer JCCALDWELL's original question. There are a few, very few, cowboy clubs that do allow rifles in thier local competition. Most are in cali-fornia. They obviously place these targes much further away than the typical pistol caliber rifle targets used in sanctioned matches.

"Spend 4 or 5 hours at the range and actually pull a trigger less than 15 minutes.... what's wrong with that picture? That is why I quite the CAS thing years back."

What shooting sport is different? Besides, if you spent all your time sitting and watching instead of socializing, cheering and working as a counter/RO or other capacity, no wonder you left. You missed allot of what the entire sport is about. Again, if all you want to do is pull a trigger, go to your local shooting spot and shoot rats or tin cans. If you are interrested in a social, competition, shooting event, the CAS is great.

Hank

[Musketeer]

This fella has never shot, probably never even been to a match and wants the entire sport to suit him.

I have not shot in a CAS match. I have attended two though and they looked interesting and fun. I, and many others though, cannot justify spending an extra grand in addition to the first handgun.

I do not expect the whole CAS world to change to suit me. I think it would be smart though for them to add the option of competing with less than the 4required weapons. Take the normal course of fire and allow people to use just one or two revolvers. Perhaps just a rifle or just a shotgun. They can then choose to be scored in a single weapon category or in the full 4 weapons if that is how they competed.

If the sport is that fun you will get more people involved who will then opt to buy the additional weapons in time. To start though you will at least get more people shooting at the events, even if it is only one weapon.

There really are many people who do not like competing with other people's weapons. They may want to get involved but the expense is just too far out. Why not give them the option?

[O.S.O.K.]

The NRA now has a silhouette competition that uses lever action rifles - I think they do have to be pistol calibers though.

Many years ago, I entered a contest to design a new shooting sport - my entry? Cowboy Silhouette - using pistols and lever guns. I submitted a full procedure and rules list complete with silhouette details and range placement. I didn't win, but about a year later, this new NRA lever action silhouette sport comes out.... hmmm. Was put on by the NSSF (national shooting sports foundation) if memory serves.

But anyhoo, that's a one-gun deal.

[ahankster]

Muskteer,
I have been to a few clubs that did allow a person to use one pistol, a rifle and shotgun. They called the catagory "working cowboy". The logic was that this was probably more in line with what an actual cowboy carried in the old west. Of course, they had to reload the pistol on the clock. As long as they competed among themselves, there is no problem. But, against everyone else, the WCs always finished last.

I also underdstand people that can't justify spending two grand or more on a full set of CASS guns. But one has to understand how complicated it already is to score a cowboy match and how many catagories there are already.

At a local club, you might find them very receptive to shooting each stage with one or two of the four guns. You also might find them receptive to using guns that would not normally be used at a cowboy shoot. But, at some point the expectation would be that you would have to get the required firearms.

As far as getting people to participate, this has not been a problem at most clubs. Cowboy action is the fastest growing organized shooting sport and most areas of the country have numerous clubs. From where I live there are five clubs within two hours and another four or five within three hours. Pretty much every club has at least 40 to 50 shooters at every match, and growing. Just like any sport, there is a fairly significant up front cost (golf has already been mentioned). After that, it is as expensive as you make it. As a matter of fact, if you go with used guns, Blackhawks can be found around 300 bucks as can a double shotgun and I have seen Marlin 94s for around 300. An enterprising pard could easily come up with the money for this. Leather can be had for cheap too, of course it won't last very long and you either eventually pay for good leather or keep buying cheap.

CAS is expensive, or as much so as you make it, but what about sporting clays where one good gun can run several thousand, or NRA BPCR where a good Sharps can easily go for 1800 to 2000, or IPSC where a race gun can run several grand, or Three gun, IDPA or any other shooting discipline. Any good AR used in three gun, high power, sniper comps or any other competition starts at a grand and goes up from there. So, in the relative scope of things, CAS isn't any more expensive than any other organized shooting sport (or golf for that matter where a set of clubs and all the fees that go with it,,,, well you get the picture).

I also understand not wanting to shoot other people's guns. That is a personal limitation that I feel similarly in. But, it is an option.

Good luck
Hank

[Musketeer]

I hope to do it some day, but it will have to be down the road. Right now I really want to get that Dan Wesson Bobtail Commander 1911 in 10mm and am saving up for it by Christmas. With a 5 yr old and a infant cash can be tight so toys for daddy are low on the list.

Perhaps in 4 years I can go and get everything needed for CAS...

[ahankster]

The only thing worse than having ankle biters is when they get old enuff to shoot.
You think having to buy ONE gun to make a complete CASS outfit is bad, what do you think happens when you have TWO boys that turn 10 and 11 and they BOTH want to start shooting buckaroo class in Cowboy Action. Buckaroo class uses 22 pistols, 22 rifle and 410 shotgun. The ammo isn't too bad, except 410 that is twice as much as 12 gauge, but the guns are just about as expensive as the adult versions.
Actually, I like it, gives me an excuse to add to the collection. I always wanted one of those Browning BL22 rifles when I was a kid......

Hank

[O.S.O.K.]

And I made them share two revolvers (38 specials), a rifle and use the shotty that I started with which is a 20 guage.

It's expensive no matter which way you look at it though - match fees, gas to the match, ammo and of course, you gotta get some BBQ afterwards

[Mat, not doormat]

Spend 4 or 5 hours at the range and actually pull a trigger less than 15 minutes.... what's wrong with that picture? That is why I quite the CAS thing years back. Cowboy ACTION Shooting? Where is the action in that?

Man, you spent 15 minutes pulling a trigger? You're shooting waaaay too slow. I shot a match recently where I double entered, once in Traditional, and once in Open. 7 x 2 = 14 stages. I doubt if I actually shot five minutes.

As for shooting more than one gun, both SAAs and tube fed leverguns are so slow to reload that in order to even get as much shooting as we do, the founders set it up the way it is. There are plenty of one gun games out there, if you want to play them, though I doubt many are significantly cheaper than SASS.

And as far as Wyatt and gun carts go, of course he didn't have a gun cart, he had a horse! If you want to step over road apples to get to the stage, by all means go that route.

~~~Mat

[O.S.O.K.]

I made mine out of plywood - cut out two identical sides which form the box and handles - complete the box bottom and put a dowell between them on the top - add wheels and you've got a nice cart that makes a good seat too.

And if you want a horse but can't afford one - try a good burro! They're cheap and can pull a little cart with ease

And a comment about the time to shooting time ratio - the time spent shooting is pretty intense (in a good way) - you are focused on hitting at speed. The rest of the time is spent visiting and BS'ing with some real nice folks. A great place for young boys too. Especially if you are a conservative sort of person.