Friend breaks up an attempted robbery!

[threegun]

I only carry a knife, don't currently own a handgun. If someone were to, not be carrying a firearm but had a knife, what could they have done in this situation?

My coworker was able to easily get behind this guy so if I had no choice and only a knife deploying it would have been easy in this case.

My bet is the kid didn't even notice that the shop owner was open carrying

After thinking about how easily he gave up I'm starting to agree here also.

[icedog88]

Threegun, while we disagree on appearance rather than actions defining what constitutes a legit threat, you may have helped prove race doesn't affect your action. If the gent comes in wearing a suit and is black, he stands less of a chance of being labeled as opposed to a young white guy with saggy jeans ,hat on backwards and bling? Because my initial question way back was what RACE had to do with it. This is why I ask. Am I to lose the opportunity to be judged fairly solely by my skin color by a majority of white society rather than how I act? Then a disservice will continue and walls will continue to go up, rather than come down. And I'll have to invest in that "Defending your home against Slovakians" course. I'll also have to tell my White adpotive mom that I have to defend my home against her and my girlfriend and daughters! Dang it!

[threegun]

We should only compare apples to apples. If a BM came in thugged out he would get treated the same as a BM in a suit only we would be more cautious of the thug.

A white thug will get more attention than a any race in a suit. A lone male will get more attention than one with a woman or child etc. Elderly men will get less attention. These are things I have found over time to be doing without thinking about it.

Race plays a role at times.

[icedog88]

Thank god not to everyone. Black thugs, white thugs, Italian thugs should be treated as thugs. Too bad though. It would have been nice to meet for coffee when I'm in FL next wk

[icedog88]

Whoops 8:30, Gotta go get those white folk outta the house before they take over like they did to the Native Americans. Night all.

[threegun]

One thing I have found to be very true. He who professes to never take race into consideration almost always does so themselves at on point or another. If you are in Tampa Stop by the shop and say hi.

[icedog88]

Again with generalizations. Trust should enter into daily dealings. I believe people til I have proof otherwise. If I let race come into the picture, my life would be a mess. I have Indians, Puerto Ricans, Whites, Blacks, Mexicans Portuguese ,and one Scot who make up my company. I live with a White woman and have two daughters with her. Adopted by an Irish woman. If I let race be a factor in my life, I would also be the worlds biggest hypocrite. Something I have no stomach for. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. That is EXACTLY how I live my life. Trust individuals until that PERSON ,not a people, gives me a reason not to. I'll be in west palm, but if I have time i'll pm ya! Semper Fi.

[BikerRN]

No matter what we may say, your coworker has gained insight and tactical expirience. There is little we can do or say, as he went home alive. That says that overall he did everything right. The thing is, even when you do things "by the book" you may still go home in a body bag.

Biker

[shootniron]

icedog88

The beautiful thing about all of this is that you, I and everyone are free to trust or distrust anyone we choose for whatever reasons are important to us without obligation to explain it or defend it to anyone. Most of us have experiences in our lives that tend to shape our perception all of things, whether good or bad.

[Nnobby45]

It takes a real set of coconuts to handle it like he did, free snickers bar and gas for him!

Yup, if he'd been a cop, he'd have gotten a pat on the back for bravery and maybe an award. Right after getting his butt chewed for tactics that put him at risk.

Of course, he's not a cop. Did well, considering.

[Datguy781]

So if I read someones body language and it says that he's a punk, I'm supposed to disregard my brain if the guy is black so that the racephobic people can feel comfortable? You guys crack me up.

So who's being racist and putting mostly black guys on the dumb criminals TV?
Perhaps some of the so called racism allegedly typed in is in fact experience and not racism?

Who are you guys? I mentioned prejudice not racism they are two different concepts. I don't know which worlds dumbest criminal shows you are watching but I have the channel "trutv" as well and its a pretty equal share of stupidity shared amongst the criminal community. The problem is that most of your experience is what you see on TV that leads to prejudice. If you were to only go by what you see on TV and the local news paper me and my friends I grew up with would not all be military and college educated and "gasp" not criminals. You can continue to get your education and ideals from TV if you'd like though. After all you will never see me or my friends on TV for you to learn about.

[icedog88]

shootniron


You are absolutely correct. I truly believe in the oath I took over 21 yrs ago. The principle and whatnot. I am not questioning liking or disliking someone based on race. Please go back and read the the entire thread. What I am questioning in this thread(Tactics and Training)is,since this was brought up by another poster(the second post) and seconded by some others is how one trains differently to respond to different races. That's it. I don't really care if people can't get past their own stereotypes based on a few actual encounters with a very select few of different races. What concerns me as a person dedicated to ensuring the safety of my family, is how can I teach the difference between a home invasion perpetrated by blacks as opposed to perpetrated by whites? A car jacking by a Latino or one by a Hawaiian. Would the race of the person who just mugged you on the street really matter? A bad neighborhood you may find yourself in is just that, a bad neighborhood. I don't really care if people on this forum say they are or are not racist. Not my hangup. But if you make decisions based on race, then by the very definition, you are in fact, racist. No apologies asked for. Simply trying to get a better understanding of the thought process of some who think that somehow a crime committed by a person takes a different meaning based on race. If you are attacked by a white guy, do you throw caviar to distract him? Do you throw something else for another race? Obviously I am joking here ,but you can get my meaning. After you've been attacked by a person wearing a mask, you have still been attacked. Was it more pleasurable because it might have been committed by someone of your own race?

[catnphx]

threegun said (in original post): Chilling part is the bad guy was about to draw on a man who was open carrying. To me this means he was preparing for a shootout.

Sounds to me like the BG had an adrenalin dump and was tunnel focused. Don't think the open carry of a weapon will scare a BG away because he might not even see it. If you think something is going down then you best have your gun already in your hand before the BG gets the jump on you.

Thanks for the story.

[threegun]

Trust should enter into daily dealings. I believe people til I have proof otherwise.

Not for me. I don't trust anyone I don't know well. I don't believe crapola until they prove otherwise. BTW race has nothing to do with this because I truely mean nobody.

I'll be in west palm, but if I have time i'll pm ya! Semper Fi.

Like to bass fish?

[threegun]

No matter what we may say, your coworker has gained insight and tactical expirience. There is little we can do or say, as he went home alive. That says that overall he did everything right. The thing is, even when you do things "by the book" you may still go home in a body bag.

You are 100 percent correct. Still I was busting his eggs out of habit for everything I felt was wrong. He's smart enough to admit some mistakes and is happy that they didn't cost him. We are going to work together later today so I will pick his brain some more for anything new. I'm gonna try to give him an understanding of why you don't want to get close. He knows but seeing it is much better.

Bottom line as you pointed out they won the badguy lost. A great day for the good guys.

[icedog88]

I agree it was a good day for the good guys.

Not for me. I don't trust anyone I don't know well. I don't believe crapola until they prove otherwise.

Guilty until proven otherwise? Goes against the very fabric of our nation's sacred documents ya know
Life is too short to live wary of other people and what they MIGHT do.

Like to bass fish?

Visiting my sis. First vac in 15 yrs! Never been bass fishin either but I hear stereotypically it's an overweight white guy's sport anyway. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[threegun]

Sounds to me like the BG had an adrenalin dump and was tunnel focused. Don't think the open carry of a weapon will scare a BG away because he might not even see it. If you think something is going down then you best have your gun already in your hand before the BG gets the jump on you.

Thanks for the story.

I agree.

Another story. Man walks into the shop. I'm standing behind the counter facing him. I ask how are you doing? He looks outside then turns and begins to walk toward the counter. Very suspicious but his hands are empty and I am real fast on the draw so I'm still feeling ok. He has a very sinister look on his face. As he gets closer to the counter the angle allows him to see more of me standing behind the counter. He is dressed very dirty and his hygiene is horrible. Anyway he looks down and makes eye contact with my holstered Glock model 20 and it literally made his body quiver. He began to mumble finding it difficlut to make a sentence. Finally at the counter he asked for an application LOL.

I have very little doubt that he was intent on something more sinister.

[threegun]

Guilty until proven otherwise? Goes against the very fabric of our nation's sacred documents ya know
Life is too short to live wary of other people and what they MIGHT do

I'm not concerned with spreading American Values. I just want to eliminate those things I can eliminate. One of those things is the BS artists games. Mind you I am as polite and peaceful as I am we amongst my family just no unearned trust.

Quote:
Like to bass fish?

Visiting my sis. First vac in 15 yrs! Never been bass fishin either but I hear stereotypically it's an overweight white guy's sport anyway. Sorry, couldn't resist

If you wanna set up a trip PM me. Lake Tarpon, bass boat, hispanic bass nut driving. Will be a hoot.

[Ringolevio]

catnphx:

If you think something is going down then you best have your gun already in your hand before the BG gets the jump on you.

Yup, you don't have to worry about how fast you can draw when it's already in your hand (and, even better, still concealed in a coat pocket you can shoot through if necessary. But the in-the-pocket technique is not recommended with a semi-auto).

In the NYPD (in a case of life imitating art) that's called the "Kojak carry".

And Massad Ayoob speaks of conducting a traffic stops in NH with his backup revolver in his weak hand inside his pocket.

[icedog88]

Hope we can set that up. I'll be in touch.

On the topic of my original question though, nobody has yet to offer any real answer. How does race play a factor in tactics and actual training?

[threegun]

One way I can think of off the top of my head........You are involved in a shooting. The neighborhood is predominantly black. The bad guy you just shot is black. Race would play a part in my after action decision making and I would likely leave the scene while in contact with police. White bad guy or neighborhood and I would likely stay for police.

Its an after action tactic but a tactic none the less.

[markj]

What was your point?

Icedog I was just stating factual stats. Why just last year my cousin was shot in his belly by a guy is from africa and a gang member who is now doing time in the pen. Look at Omahas stats, shootings almost every night mostly in the bad part of town. All gang related, here we have 2 major gangs, the mexicans in south omaha and the black gangs in north omaha, white boys also have gangs and do some of the shooting but very little of it.

I dont see it as racial, just as young guys with no direction. My nephew for instance just got out of the marine corp, his daddy is mexican, been here for 30 years and is a us citizen. Josh was going the bad path but we put a stop to it and he turned out OK.

My sis is married to a guy from togo africa, he is very smart, very educated and is black. I am proud to call him my brother.

I am a mix of most races including native. All I am saying is the young guys want to be cool, attract girls, get hold of a load of cash etc. Easiest way is to gang up and sell drugs.

Man I took a whooping for a young balck man who was being verbally accosted by a old white bigot. I stood up for the lad and the bigot slammed his tray of food and very hot coffee on my head.

Not all people are bad of any race, but every race has its bad people. Best learn this early as it may hurt to learn it later.

[icedog88]

But again we sully down the same path. Threegun, what you are stating is what is called an after action. That doesn't concern me as the incident is over. What I am concerned with was a post which implied if we knew the race BEFOREHAND, somehow we could have trained to avoid or dealt with it as it happened. Still no proof of that.

Markj: I appreciate what you have done in the past and your willingness to accept there are bad people of all races but again, see above. And as in my 39 yrs of being someone of color, all the same I might add, traveled extensively all over the world courtesy of our government, lived in ghettos and the suburbs,I'm pretty sure I have experience enough to understand the complexities of good and bad people of all colors and races. Not really new to this concept. Please, understand that I want to know if I should respond differently to a Black man charging at me with a knife than I would a White man or an Eskimo. Thats it. That was my original question in response to post #2.

[Ringolevio]

icedog88:

Please, understand that I want to know if I should respond differently to a Black man charging at me with a knife than I would a White man or an Eskimo.

Why ya gotta drag the Eskimos into this?

BTW, "Icedog" sure sounds like an Eskimo name (except that all their dogs are icedogs).

Anyway, the Eskimos have some of the most sophisticated and non-violent traditional means of dealing with conflict.

Since they live in such a harsh environment and must depend on one another for survival, they can't risk injuring one another in a fight. So, when one Eskimo has a beef with another, he gathers his friends and they stand outside the guy's igloo and sing insulting songs!

I think I learned that from reading Jack London.

[icedog88]

Ringolevio:
! I almost wet myself. I do not and have not discriminated against anyone in my examples. Just trying to include everyone.

Although my background is Narragansett Indian; ice for hockey, dog for USMC, 88 for E Lindros.