Is this normal, or should I be concerned?

GunLuvr01 · June 15, 2015, 05:32 PM

I was shooting my model 10-8 revolver today using Fiocchi fmj ammo. I noticed every so often I would feel burning powder on my left hand and once to my left cheek. When I was getting ready to clean it I checked the cone and After Making Sure It Was Unloaded I held the gun up, held an LED light down the barrel and cycled the cylinder. I couldn't see anything unusual, it doesn't do this every time just once in a while. Is this a concern?

peggysue · June 15, 2015, 05:41 PM

I have never used that ammo so can't say anything about its quality.

Doyle · June 15, 2015, 08:27 PM

Somewhere around here, there is a set of instructions on how to check timing and measure endshake. I suspect your timing may be a tad off. Also, check your forcing cone to make sure it is nice and smooth.

dyl · June 16, 2015, 10:54 PM

No ammo around. Slow double action pull while a finger provides slight drag on the cylinder as it turns. You should hear and see (side view) the cylinder stop click into the little notches on the cylinder from below before the hammer falls. If this is done fast the cylinder will appear to lock up well no matter what because momentum will rotate the cylinder even though the hand has reached its limit of travel. If it doesn't lock up I would call S&W or a local smith you trust as it could be a worn hand or star. You could also check for a bent ejector rod. Open the cylinder and set the rod spinning with a twirl. Does it wobble up and down like crazy? A little is fine.

I would also try different ammo. I remember getting unburnt powder from factory reloads out of a snub nose.

Adter it happens you could mark the cylinder with a dot of permanent marker and see if it is the same one every time.

Dave Chuppa · June 17, 2015, 05:48 PM

I would also try different ammo.

Doc Holliday 1950 · June 17, 2015, 06:13 PM

The only time I had any ammo problems was when I used ammo not from the USA. Like what was said before me, "try other ammo". If it still happens, then take it from there. Hope I didn't offend any of my Italian relatives.
Respectfully,
Doc

GunLuvr01 · June 17, 2015, 08:00 PM

I will definitely try different ammo and see what happens. I did check the cylinder timing by pulling the hammer back and the cylinder locked before the hammer was fully pulled. I also checked the timing by squeezing the trigger and once again the cylinder locked first. As far as the forcing cone goes, I couldn't fit a folded sheet of paper between it and the cylinder, so I don't think there is a gap issue. Lords willing, I will get a different brand of ammo soon and take it from there. Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks for the help guys.

Waspinator · June 18, 2015, 10:59 AM

Huh....

A co-worker just picked up a S&W 66-3 in very good condition two weeks ago. He bought a few boxes of various ammo to test it out at the range. He told me that it shot like a dream, but he did have three rounds out of fifty that didn't go off. He said the primer strikes were normal, they were just duds. The ammo he had the trouble with? Fiocchi .357 magnums. He said all the other ammo he bought performed flawlessly (a mix of .38 and .357 from different brands). I've never used the stuff myself, but after hearing his results, and now yours, I think I'll pass if I ever come across any.

colbad · June 18, 2015, 02:32 PM

I would be surprised if what you feel is burning powder. I had a similar experience with my Dan Wesson. When I looked it over good, I did not have the barrel/cylinder gap set correctly. What I was actually feeling was a bit of led splatter being shaved and pushed out the gap.

Sevens · June 18, 2015, 02:42 PM

Re: coworker with 66-3

It has been my experience that Fiocchi makes very good ammo in it's price range and this is not some new shoestring start-up fly by night outfit. On a newly snagged OLDER S&W revolver like a 66-3 that the owner just got... three fails to fire from a new box of new production Fiocchi ammo is just not at all likely to be the ammo.

Pull the grips or stocks and ensure the strain screw is tightened down. This is maybe the single most common "issue" with S&W revolvers and is by far the most common solution for FTFire with factory ammo.

old bear · June 19, 2015, 10:00 AM

I shot several hundreds, if not thousand rounds of Fiocchi ammo with out any problems. I would be surprised if it was the ammo causing the problem, but it would not hurt to try another brand and see what happens. Try marking the different charging holes to determine if the problem is random or happens with one specific charging hole. If it's random, sorry I got no solutions. If it happens with the same charge hole, you may have a timing problem.

Best of luck...

dyl · June 19, 2015, 11:21 AM

2 more thoughts: The range. The cylinder stop.

The range: I've gotten splatter back from an indoor range before. The backstop must not have been cleaned or maintained very well. This was a very low cost joint so I still liked it. Are you shooting at an indoor range?

Cylinder stop:
The most solid moment of lockup would be after the trigger is pulled (hammer falls) and trigger is still held to the rear.

No ammo around, pull the trigger and continue to hold the trigger to the rear. With the other hand see how much the cylinder rotates and/or wiggles. Does it rotate much? With all 6 positions? Some rotation is good as the cylinder self-aligns with the forcing cone/barrel when the projectile passes through but if its a lot you could get some lead shaving. Sometimes heavily used revolvers have worn cylinder stops (or the window it protrudes through) and a new or oversized one needs to be fit. And see if the cylinder notches themselves are enlarged from use.

GunLuvr01 · June 19, 2015, 02:56 PM

I spoke to someone at S&W and he seems to think the timing could be a little off. He said more than likely the hand is worn. I contacted a local gunsmith that is going to look at it next week. Other than the hand, are there any other parts that should be replaced?

dyl · June 22, 2015, 11:42 AM

Parts replaced really just depends on what the culprit is. It could be the hand/star and not the cylinder stop. It could be both.

Potential wear parts that we just discussed are the hand, the star on the ejector rod which it ratchets with, or on the underside: the cylinder stop.

Replacement parts are often oversized then fit/filed down to size since its also the window that the part passes through that gets worn allowing for too much play. No one wants to pay to replace the frame (essentially the licensed firearm) so you get an oversized hand or oversized cylinder stop then fit it to the frame for less slop.

It would be up to the gunsmith to see if the star has been worn/deformed along with the hand, if so this would mean a new ejector rod. Ditto with the cylinder stop or any internal part since he will have the side plate off and the gun open. You could ask him to let you know of any worn parts that are headed towards failure in the near future.

I would probably invest into model 10 repairs one step at a time (is this one of the trade-in guns?) and replace what was needed then test. There is a good chance after the primary issue is fixed that the revolver will do well the rest of your life. Replacement parts are plenty as the model 10 was so popular so there is no urgency.

If you're interested in a good manual about S&W revolvers with good pictures/diagrams, Jerry Kuhnhausen's manual on revolvers is a good one. I wish I had read that before I detail stripped my first revolver. Beats all the youtube videos put together.

June 15, 2015, 05:32 PM	#1
GunLuvr01 Member Join Date: February 26, 2015 Posts: 69	Is this normal, or should I be concerned? I was shooting my model 10-8 revolver today using Fiocchi fmj ammo. I noticed every so often I would feel burning powder on my left hand and once to my left cheek. When I was getting ready to clean it I checked the cone and After Making Sure It Was Unloaded I held the gun up, held an LED light down the barrel and cycled the cylinder. I couldn't see anything unusual, it doesn't do this every time just once in a while. Is this a concern?

June 16, 2015, 10:54 PM	#4
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	Timing No ammo around. Slow double action pull while a finger provides slight drag on the cylinder as it turns. You should hear and see (side view) the cylinder stop click into the little notches on the cylinder from below before the hammer falls. If this is done fast the cylinder will appear to lock up well no matter what because momentum will rotate the cylinder even though the hand has reached its limit of travel. If it doesn't lock up I would call S&W or a local smith you trust as it could be a worn hand or star. You could also check for a bent ejector rod. Open the cylinder and set the rod spinning with a twirl. Does it wobble up and down like crazy? A little is fine. I would also try different ammo. I remember getting unburnt powder from factory reloads out of a snub nose. Adter it happens you could mark the cylinder with a dot of permanent marker and see if it is the same one every time. Last edited by dyl; June 16, 2015 at 11:02 PM.

June 17, 2015, 06:13 PM	#6
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	Fiocci ammo The only time I had any ammo problems was when I used ammo not from the USA. Like what was said before me, "try other ammo". If it still happens, then take it from there. Hope I didn't offend any of my Italian relatives. Respectfully, Doc

June 17, 2015, 08:00 PM	#7
GunLuvr01 Member Join Date: February 26, 2015 Posts: 69	I will definitely try different ammo and see what happens. I did check the cylinder timing by pulling the hammer back and the cylinder locked before the hammer was fully pulled. I also checked the timing by squeezing the trigger and once again the cylinder locked first. As far as the forcing cone goes, I couldn't fit a folded sheet of paper between it and the cylinder, so I don't think there is a gap issue. Lords willing, I will get a different brand of ammo soon and take it from there. Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks for the help guys. Last edited by GunLuvr01; June 17, 2015 at 08:20 PM.

June 18, 2015, 02:42 PM	#10
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Re: coworker with 66-3 It has been my experience that Fiocchi makes very good ammo in it's price range and this is not some new shoestring start-up fly by night outfit. On a newly snagged OLDER S&W revolver like a 66-3 that the owner just got... three fails to fire from a new box of new production Fiocchi ammo is just not at all likely to be the ammo. Pull the grips or stocks and ensure the strain screw is tightened down. This is maybe the single most common "issue" with S&W revolvers and is by far the most common solution for FTFire with factory ammo. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

June 15, 2015, 05:41 PM	#2
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	I have never used that ammo so can't say anything about its quality.

June 15, 2015, 08:27 PM	#3
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Somewhere around here, there is a set of instructions on how to check timing and measure endshake. I suspect your timing may be a tad off. Also, check your forcing cone to make sure it is nice and smooth.

June 17, 2015, 05:48 PM	#5
Dave Chuppa Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Posts: 448	I would also try different ammo.

June 18, 2015, 10:59 AM	#8
Waspinator Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 517	Huh.... A co-worker just picked up a S&W 66-3 in very good condition two weeks ago. He bought a few boxes of various ammo to test it out at the range. He told me that it shot like a dream, but he did have three rounds out of fifty that didn't go off. He said the primer strikes were normal, they were just duds. The ammo he had the trouble with? Fiocchi .357 magnums. He said all the other ammo he bought performed flawlessly (a mix of .38 and .357 from different brands). I've never used the stuff myself, but after hearing his results, and now yours, I think I'll pass if I ever come across any.

June 18, 2015, 02:32 PM	#9
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	I would be surprised if what you feel is burning powder. I had a similar experience with my Dan Wesson. When I looked it over good, I did not have the barrel/cylinder gap set correctly. What I was actually feeling was a bit of led splatter being shaved and pushed out the gap.

June 19, 2015, 10:00 AM	#11
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	I shot several hundreds, if not thousand rounds of Fiocchi ammo with out any problems. I would be surprised if it was the ammo causing the problem, but it would not hurt to try another brand and see what happens. Try marking the different charging holes to determine if the problem is random or happens with one specific charging hole. If it's random, sorry I got no solutions. If it happens with the same charge hole, you may have a timing problem. Best of luck...

June 19, 2015, 11:21 AM	#12
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	another thing to try 2 more thoughts: The range. The cylinder stop. The range: I've gotten splatter back from an indoor range before. The backstop must not have been cleaned or maintained very well. This was a very low cost joint so I still liked it. Are you shooting at an indoor range? Cylinder stop: The most solid moment of lockup would be after the trigger is pulled (hammer falls) and trigger is still held to the rear. No ammo around, pull the trigger and continue to hold the trigger to the rear. With the other hand see how much the cylinder rotates and/or wiggles. Does it rotate much? With all 6 positions? Some rotation is good as the cylinder self-aligns with the forcing cone/barrel when the projectile passes through but if its a lot you could get some lead shaving. Sometimes heavily used revolvers have worn cylinder stops (or the window it protrudes through) and a new or oversized one needs to be fit. And see if the cylinder notches themselves are enlarged from use.

June 19, 2015, 02:56 PM	#13
GunLuvr01 Member Join Date: February 26, 2015 Posts: 69	I spoke to someone at S&W and he seems to think the timing could be a little off. He said more than likely the hand is worn. I contacted a local gunsmith that is going to look at it next week. Other than the hand, are there any other parts that should be replaced?

June 22, 2015, 11:42 AM	#14
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	Parts replaced really just depends on what the culprit is. It could be the hand/star and not the cylinder stop. It could be both. Potential wear parts that we just discussed are the hand, the star on the ejector rod which it ratchets with, or on the underside: the cylinder stop. Replacement parts are often oversized then fit/filed down to size since its also the window that the part passes through that gets worn allowing for too much play. No one wants to pay to replace the frame (essentially the licensed firearm) so you get an oversized hand or oversized cylinder stop then fit it to the frame for less slop. It would be up to the gunsmith to see if the star has been worn/deformed along with the hand, if so this would mean a new ejector rod. Ditto with the cylinder stop or any internal part since he will have the side plate off and the gun open. You could ask him to let you know of any worn parts that are headed towards failure in the near future. I would probably invest into model 10 repairs one step at a time (is this one of the trade-in guns?) and replace what was needed then test. There is a good chance after the primary issue is fixed that the revolver will do well the rest of your life. Replacement parts are plenty as the model 10 was so popular so there is no urgency. If you're interested in a good manual about S&W revolvers with good pictures/diagrams, Jerry Kuhnhausen's manual on revolvers is a good one. I wish I had read that before I detail stripped my first revolver. Beats all the youtube videos put together. Last edited by dyl; June 22, 2015 at 11:51 AM.